Rapha haters - do NOT read!

cock_sportif

bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:

Not seen rapha stuff up close.

Which invalidates just about everything you say below.

Obvious aimed at cyclists into retro fashion, which would mostly be fixed gear riders I'd assume, no probs there as I do like old style clobber myself, HOWEVER, what I do find annoying is the very obvious bumping up of prices in order to give some pseudo 'exclusivity'. Levi's (and others presumably), which sell dirt cheap in the USA, even took suppliers to court in the UK in an attempt to keep prices artificially high here. Well, you could make a certain profit by selling stuff at an affordable price and making it widely available, OR you can make the same amount of profit by making half as many items, doubling the price, and shoving some black and white and sepia photos out to the press: less work, more profit. Oh, and it's exclusive, so that makes it all right. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever buy Rapha, though it's actually well out of my budget, but I think the intentional image of 'exclusive' and the often realworld perception of 'money to burn' are not quite the same thing. Theres some very naff and cheap looking clobber out there, with the ONLY thing to distinguish it from market stall quality being the label, and it probably comes from the same sweatshops, yet folks will pay double or more the price just for the label, as if thats more important than what the item actually looks like.

Sorry, but that's patronising cr@p. Actually having owned Rapha stuff, I'd say the 'exclusivity' comes from the design quality, attention to detail, high quality materials and (mainly) successful effort to combine style with function.

And price compared to what? I could be head to foot in Rapha and still pay less than a half decent two-peice suit. Do you really think they'd be so successful if they were flogging market stall tat at inflated prices? It's good kit - go on, treat yourself

Le Commentateur

It's not perfect though. The sizing is a bit weird, the dye in the woollen jerseys is affected by sunlight (black becomes a dark purple over time, especially back & shoulders which obviously get more sunlight when riding).

I think the pricing is just a survival tactic as much as anything. Price something high and you only have to find a small number of customers with the necessary disposable funds -- the cheaper you price the more dependent you are on having to satisfy huge numbers of people, i.e you are forced to produce generally bland, unadventurous stuff.

Jez mon

The thing is, IF, Rapha was cheaper, I might actually look into buying SOME of the stuff. There are situations where I hate the thought of having to wear my Euro gimp outfit! BUT, they are few and far between, nevertheless I wouldn't mind some stylish retro threads once in a while!

However, I have too many issues with company now to wear their stuff. Yes it's a British company, yet their manufacturing is outsourced to other countries, so why the (excruciatingly) high cost? I know it's a good quality product BUT the pricing does seem artificially high for something which isn't made with expensive labour overheads. Secondly, they cultivate a cool retro, RRing, hipster image, yet seem to mainly be selling to poeple going through a mid life crisis. Furthermore, the clothes are often dark black, which isn't really the safest colour (though I'm sure it covers most middle age spreads nicely).

Barry Roubaix

Jez mon wrote:

The thing is, IF, Rapha was cheaper, I might actually look into buying SOME of the stuff. There are situations where I hate the thought of having to wear my Euro gimp outfit! BUT, they are few and far between, nevertheless I wouldn't mind some stylish retro threads once in a while!

However, I have too many issues with company now to wear their stuff. Yes it's a British company, yet their manufacturing is outsourced to other countries, so why the (excruciatingly) high cost? I know it's a good quality product BUT the pricing does seem artificially high for something which isn't made with expensive labour overheads. Secondly, they cultivate a cool retro, RRing, hipster image, yet seem to mainly be selling to poeple going through a mid life crisis. Furthermore, the clothes are often dark black, which isn't really the safest colour (though I'm sure it covers most middle age spreads nicely).

do you have any examples to back that up?

Jez mon

Barry Roubaix wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

The thing is, IF, Rapha was cheaper, I might actually look into buying SOME of the stuff. There are situations where I hate the thought of having to wear my Euro gimp outfit! BUT, they are few and far between, nevertheless I wouldn't mind some stylish retro threads once in a while!

However, I have too many issues with company now to wear their stuff. Yes it's a British company, yet their manufacturing is outsourced to other countries, so why the (excruciatingly) high cost? I know it's a good quality product BUT the pricing does seem artificially high for something which isn't made with expensive labour overheads. Secondly, they cultivate a cool retro, RRing, hipster image, yet seem to mainly be selling to poeple going through a mid life crisis. Furthermore, the clothes are often dark black, which isn't really the safest colour (though I'm sure it covers most middle age spreads nicely).

do you have any examples to back that up?

Quite frankly his "average" customer seems to be upper middle class mid life crisis man, who can't quite afford a Porshe.

Barry Roubaix

Jez mon wrote:

Barry Roubaix wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

The thing is, IF, Rapha was cheaper, I might actually look into buying SOME of the stuff. There are situations where I hate the thought of having to wear my Euro gimp outfit! BUT, they are few and far between, nevertheless I wouldn't mind some stylish retro threads once in a while!

However, I have too many issues with company now to wear their stuff. Yes it's a British company, yet their manufacturing is outsourced to other countries, so why the (excruciatingly) high cost? I know it's a good quality product BUT the pricing does seem artificially high for something which isn't made with expensive labour overheads. Secondly, they cultivate a cool retro, RRing, hipster image, yet seem to mainly be selling to poeple going through a mid life crisis. Furthermore, the clothes are often dark black, which isn't really the safest colour (though I'm sure it covers most middle age spreads nicely).

do you have any examples to back that up?

Quite frankly his "average" customer seems to be upper middle class mid life crisis man, who can't quite afford a Porshe.

I'll ask the question again - have you met or do you know anyone like that?

I'm only asking because all the people I know who wear Rapha (and I know a fair few) range from my brother who is single and lives in a council flat in Newcastle, and can't quite afford a Kia, to a deputy head, father of two who is very content with his life and finished the Swiss Ironman this year.

And if it is the case that his "average" customer seems to be upper middle class mid life crisis man, what is the fookin problem with that?

Seems to me there are a lot of people on here who don't bat an eyelid at spending thousands on the latest flash carbon wotsit, strive to get their rigs to weigh less than a duck feather, argue about the merits of ceramic ball bearings, and succumb to all the marketing that goes with the above, yet are content to go out on a ride either looking like a dogs dinner with some Aldi clothing, or else buy cheaper versions of clothing which has jumped on the Rapha 'less is more' vibe.

So to anyone who has a problem with Rapha - I give you the Agincourt salute.

fast as fupp

BRAVO!

i wont wear it because the name 'rapha' conjures up pictures of a FAT SPANISH WAITER :!:

Rob Sallnow

Barry Roubaix wrote:

Rob Sallnow wrote:

They should feature Rapha stuff in Marcus' shop in Harry and Paul.

Hiiii

Hiiiiii my friend told me about your new shop, I've just started cycling and I need a jersey.

Well we've got some wooly sh1t here...

Oooh woooow, it looks really retro, how much is it?

Well I'm afraid saw you coming, it's £120

Excellent, and I think I need a small notebook to make a note of my 1/2 mile weekly ride to Starbucks

Yes I thought you probably would, well we've got this little book type b0llocks, it's got papery sh1t in it.

Ooow woooow it's very traditional, how much is it

Well I bought it in Rymans and wrote Rapha on the front so basically it's a unique item, and as I said, I saw you coming...it's £135

Ohh wooow

etc etc etc

Oh bless - can't you afford it.

I can afford a £175 cycling jacket if its £175 worth of jacket....I suspect it isn't. Unless of couse you compare it to the £170 gilet, in which case it's a bargain.

Jez mon

Barry Roubaix wrote:

I'm only asking because all the people I know who wear Rapha (and I know a fair few) range from my brother who is single and lives in a council flat in Newcastle, and can't quite afford a Kia, to a deputy head, father of two who is very content with his life and finished the Swiss Ironman this year.

And if it is the case that his "average" customer seems to be upper middle class mid life crisis man, what is the fookin problem with that?

Seems to me there are a lot of people on here who don't bat an eyelid at spending thousands on the latest flash carbon wotsit, strive to get their rigs to weigh less than a duck feather, argue about the merits of ceramic ball bearings, and succumb to all the marketing that goes with the above, yet are content to go out on a ride either looking like a dogs dinner with some Aldi clothing, or else buy cheaper versions of clothing which has jumped on the Rapha 'less is more' vibe.

So to anyone who has a problem with Rapha - I give you the Agincourt salute.

I'm just making a wild guess that Mr Motram knows his customer base slightly better than you. There is no problem with mid life crisis man. BUT he's identified that customer and has got them in his cross-hairs, despite all the razzmatazz and hipster fanfare, he's really aiming for mid life crisis man, at the end of the day, it sometimes seems slightly delusional and sad. Why not build a clothing company which was stylish and yet, inclusive, rather than "exclusive"?

I have no problem with poeple spending wads of cash on cycling clothing, in fact, I spend quite a bit on it myself, and would never dream of wearing anything brought from Aldi! However, Rapha goes beyond mere wads of cash, to mountains of cash, for a product made from outdated materials, which isn't particularly visible (most of their stuff seems to be black) NO THANK YOU

unclemalc

[quote


So to anyone who has a problem with Rapha - I give you the Agincourt salute.[/quote]

Crecy.

damage36

Barry Roubaix wrote:

Rob Sallnow wrote:

They should feature Rapha stuff in Marcus' shop in Harry and Paul.

Hiiii

Hiiiiii my friend told me about your new shop, I've just started cycling and I need a jersey.

Well we've got some wooly sh1t here...

Oooh woooow, it looks really retro, how much is it?

Well I'm afraid saw you coming, it's £120

Excellent, and I think I need a small notebook to make a note of my 1/2 mile weekly ride to Starbucks

Yes I thought you probably would, well we've got this little book type b0llocks, it's got papery sh1t in it.

Ooow woooow it's very traditional, how much is it

Well I bought it in Rymans and wrote Rapha on the front so basically it's a unique item, and as I said, I saw you coming...it's £135

Ohh wooow

etc etc etc

Oh bless - can't you afford it.

Don't be a dick.

APIII

Jez mon wrote:

I'm just making a wild guess that Mr Motram knows his customer base slightly better than you. There is no problem with mid life crisis man. BUT he's identified that customer and has got them in his cross-hairs, despite all the razzmatazz and hipster fanfare, he's really aiming for mid life crisis man, at the end of the day, it sometimes seems slightly delusional and sad. Why not build a clothing company which was stylish and yet, inclusive, rather than "exclusive"?

I have no problem with poeple spending wads of cash on cycling clothing, in fact, I spend quite a bit on it myself, and would never dream of wearing anything brought from Aldi! However, Rapha goes beyond mere wads of cash, to mountains of cash, for a product made from outdated materials, which isn't particularly visible (most of their stuff seems to be black) NO THANK YOU

Funny how we see succesful men in their 30's with a family and a large disposal income as having a 'mid-life crisis'
Never got the argument about all their stuff being black either. What's that all about? I've seen stuff in orange, blue, red, pink, purple, etc, etc. They do a rain jacket in acid green. Bright enough for you?

damage36

Anything that styles itself as superior and costs more will always cause debate.

For example some people resent 'upper class', private healthcare, public schools etc, and unsurprisingly people can also be riled by an exclusive and expensive brand of kit. Unfortunately this reverse snobbery is based upon generalisations of Rapha customers that are just that - generalisations. Barry Roubaix has provided ample examples of people who don't fit the perceived mould.

To suggest the Rapha kit is priced purely on its quality is untrue, it is slightly inflated because its appeal is partly in its exclusivity. That said it is a nonsense to debate the quality of their excellent products, and on the whole they look extremely good.

nkelley13

Rapha kit does look good, and works well, but I do feel it is overpriced. The stitching on the hems on both my jerseys has come apart, and the black dye does fade in the sun. The caps are great and the softshell jacket was good value at the price a few years back. I foolishly paid those prices because I thought the stuff was made in the uk, but was sadly mistaken. Charging £120 for a jersey made in china is a bit ridiculous. Assos is better quality and stands up to daily use more than rapha.

If Rapha tested kit on messengers they must have only been on the road 3 hours a week!

cougie

Its nice kit, but overpriced. I paid £50 for that Andy Hampsten top - that they sell for £120.
At £50 its as reasonable as any.

The black softshell is a nice jacket - but the cord broke on it within a few weeks. Rapha will repair it, but I've never got round to sending it back yet.

Has anyone seen the Rock Racing kit in Harrods ? I think thats about £160 each for top and shorts - and the quality of that looks less than my £40 LG top.

DavidBelcher

Le Commentateur wrote:

It's not perfect though. The sizing is a bit weird, the dye in the woollen jerseys is affected by sunlight (black becomes a dark purple over time, especially back & shoulders which obviously get more sunlight when riding).

This may just be a characteristic of wool-friendly dyes, though - my folks have had a similar problem with sunlight ruining their living room carpet!

David

damage36

DavidBelcher wrote:

Le Commentateur wrote:

It's not perfect though. The sizing is a bit weird, the dye in the woollen jerseys is affected by sunlight (black becomes a dark purple over time, especially back & shoulders which obviously get more sunlight when riding).

This may just be a characteristic of wool-friendly dyes, though - my folks have had a similar problem with sunlight ruining their living room carpet!

David

A black carpet? :evil:

jamesag

I'm a PhD student, with some funding, and as I don't race I choose to ride a £1000 bike whilst wearing £2-300 worth of clothing (some of it from Rapha), rather than ride a bike costing a few hundred quid more, but wearing less comfortable, less socially acceptable, and lower quality clothing from the bargin bin. The difference to my enjoyment that wearing nice kit makes is infinitely greater than the difference which a slightly lighter set of cranks, or some other shiny piece of carbon would make. I've found my bits of Rapha (and for that matter Assos and Giordana) kit to make a big enough difference to my enjoyment of my cycling to be worth it, and so when my budget allows I will continue to buy kit from them.

And when I'm a fat middle-aged man I'll buy a Porche, or at least a Colnago with Super-Record, because let's be honest, buying a cycling jersey is a bit half-hearted. At least run off and have an affair with someone half your age.

DavidBelcher

damage36 wrote:

DavidBelcher wrote:

Le Commentateur wrote:

It's not perfect though. The sizing is a bit weird, the dye in the woollen jerseys is affected by sunlight (black becomes a dark purple over time, especially back & shoulders which obviously get more sunlight when riding).

This may just be a characteristic of wool-friendly dyes, though - my folks have had a similar problem with sunlight ruining their living room carpet!

David

A black carpet? :evil:

Maroon, originally. Now closer to the colour of tinned salmon in places.

David

ryanfergus

Hmmm. Rapha. I must admit that the power of advertising can be very persuasive. Some very nice looking photos. I got just about everything when they started up (yes I fit the profile) and was very pleased with the service. They indeed feel luxurious out of the very nicely packaged package and to wear them brand new was a pleasure. But from a practicle point of view I am actually now very disapointed.

The base layers were great but I didnt get six months out of them before they looked like a serious moth attack, the soft shell jacket is nice but it really isnt one I look forward to wearing. Its well thought out but not very hard wearing, zipp puller is gone and the chord. Its neither warm enough or cool enough. The socks went bald after two wearings and the merino wool has turned purple. The rain cape is pointless. You get wetter wearing it from the sweat than even the heaviest shower would make you without it. £180??? Sucker. I know they have changed it but for that money they should just get it right first time. Useless.

I feel now t hat they are all madly overpriced and half a grand for my grandads tweed jacket?? No way. They have really lost the plot there. If you want high quality, functionality and price go to Dhb or castelli

McBain_v1

Like I said earlier, some of the Rapha products are really good, e.g. Epic Cap - others are a wee bit of a luxury item. Personally, I like a lot of Gore™ products, especially their winter jackets and shorts and water proofs. There's something for everyone I guess.

Mark Alexander

I've said it before the (black) base layer's are great. all the other bits, even if good quality, are over priced.

The same applies to Assos in my opinion. The bib shorts are apparently worth it and I know the arm warmers at £22 are a bargain.

I am happy with my old jersey's that desperately need replacing

andy_wrx

What's wrong with Tweed ?

These New Balance trainers - the classic 576 from the 70's now being remade - are apparently a big hit in Japan in the Harris Tweed version.

spanielsson

fast as fupp wrote:

BRAVO!

i wont wear it because the name 'rapha' conjures up pictures of a FAT SPANISH WAITER :!:

Are you a bitter blue by any chance?!!

I have two Rapha jersyes, it's the best kit I own, I'd rather spend more on the gear that will last than load up on cheap gear every year.

Rob Sallnow

Why spend £90 on a black jersey that turns purple in the sun? What are people doing with the cords on their £175 jackets that cause them to snap?

McBain_v1

My black winter jersey hasn't turned purple yet (but then it's only 2 years old).

I love my club jersey too and can't see it changing colours any time soon.

As for those trainers, I bet that some enterprising soul (sole - geddit) will fit some cleats to them and market them as the well-heeled gents alternative to vulgar SIDI footwear

DavidBelcher

McBain_v1 wrote:

As for those trainers, I bet that some enterprising soul (sole - geddit) will fit some cleats to them and market them as the well-heeled gents alternative to vulgar SIDI footwear

It's only a matter of time, surely? Or maybe some nice brogues, lovingly hand-made by Northants. craftsmen (choice of ATAC/SPD- or Keo-compatible genuine leather soles).

David

McBain_v1

Has anyone seen the Fixed Jacket :?: Just received the update and I have to say that it is very tempting :twisted: I suspect that Santa might be stopping off at the Rapha store on his way to my house

idaviesmoore

McBain_v1 wrote:

Has anyone seen the Fixed Jacket :?: Just received the update and I have to say that it is very tempting :twisted: I suspect that Santa might be stopping off at the Rapha store on his way to my house

I've just bought the Belgium knee warmers...............................


Sucker................................................................ :roll:

Barry Roubaix

McBain_v1 wrote:

Has anyone seen the Fixed Jacket :?: Just received the update and I have to say that it is very tempting :twisted: I suspect that Santa might be stopping off at the Rapha store on his way to my house

That's the one I've got my eye on 8)