Girl cyclist under a lorry blackfriars bridge 12/09

Brixtonbiker

Just heard from a friend who cycled past an accident on Blackfriars bridge/Rd this morning
A lorry had driven over a girl on a bicycle.
My mate said she was in a bad way and was under the wheels.

Does anyone know if she is ok? Or what happened.

I hope she is going to be ok, It sounds like a horrendous accident.

Kieran_Burns

Been trying to find out more - there's threads on other forums but no information beyond she was seen being carried off on a stretcher

number9

Seriously injured but stable, according to the Evening Standard newsdesk. They called me, they mayy run an article on Monday cos that's where Vicky McCreery was killed.

heavymtb

I really hope she's ok. It sounds horrible.

I have just read an article re. Vicky McReery (posted below if you're interested) it sounds like that bridge should be a black spot for cyclists untill the Government do something about it. I haven't ventured that far east into town so I haven't seen the route itself but judging by the article I don't think I'd even attempt it.

I am in no way trying to take any attention from the title thread, but draw people's attention to the dangers around. Be safe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/may/2 ... port.world

cjcp

heavymtb wrote:

I really hope she's ok. It sounds horrible.

I have just read an article re. Vicky McReery (posted below if you're interested) it sounds like that bridge should be a black spot for cyclists untill the Government do something about it. I haven't ventured that far east into town so I haven't seen the route itself but judging by the article I don't think I'd even attempt it.

I am in no way trying to take any attention from the title thread, but draw people's attention to the dangers around. Be safe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/may/2 ... port.world

I thought that they had changed the bike lane. It's a bad, bad road though. I don't like it in a car.

boybiker

Very sad that it happened but it does underline the fact that if you think a route is unsafe to ride then you should get off and walk.

Lbaguley

Quite chilling - that's the way I cycle in every morning. It's an awful junction at the north end of the bridge, but having just looked at a satellite photo of the area using one of the t'interweb map thingies, it's a world better than it used to be. The bike lane used to be sandwiched by the left only/bus lane and the main carriageway :shock:

Brixtonbiker

I was told it was at the north side of the bridge at the intersection.

PeteinSQ

I ride over blackfriar's every day and honestly don't think it is that dangerous, although incidents like this make you wonder.

You definitely have to be careful on the north end of the bridge where cars turn left down onto the embankment but otherwise the cycle lane is very wide and in a sensible place. In my opinion.

attica

Had a look on Google Earth at the cycle lane in question and I have to say that one looks bl00dy scary.

The Guardian article mentions similar in Bristol, I hope they weren't refering to this
As you can see, it's not nearly as long or scary and only useful when filtering through stationery traffic towards the lights.

I think Blackfriars Bridge cycle lane is possibly an example of misreading the recommendations

Slightly OT, but this is one of the more useless cyclelanes that I regularly ignore, about a mile to the east of the previous example it drops you off into a funnel of converging traffic whilst you're cornering, lethal, especially as it's normally full of gravel too.

coshgirl66

A friend saw the accident...She said 'I saw the most horrid cycle accident this morning and I still feel really shaken. This poor girl went under a lorry at the Blackfriars bridge and the wheel was on top of her pelvis. She was screaming so much to get it off her, but there was nothing the driver could do until the fire crew arrived as it was on a slope.' That's the second accident involving a female cyclist and a lorry in London this week. Let's hope she fares better than Lisa Pontecorvo, who died at the scene on Holloway Road on Monday/
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/conte ... 3A45%3A013

el_presidente

nasty business, my thoughts are with all concerned. STAY AWAY FROM LORRIES please people

EDIT this relates to trucks & cars but still relevant I think:

http://www.howwedrive.com/2008/09/09/le ... ge-trucks/

secretsam

Fingers crossed for her, and hope for a speedy recovery.

attica

coshgirl66 wrote:

A friend saw the accident...She said 'I saw the most horrid cycle accident this morning and I still feel really shaken. This poor girl went under a lorry at the Blackfriars bridge and the wheel was on top of her pelvis. She was screaming so much to get it off her, but there was nothing the driver could do until the fire crew arrived as it was on a slope.' That's the second accident involving a female cyclist and a lorry in London this week. Let's hope she fares better than Lisa Pontecorvo, who died at the scene on Holloway Road on Monday/
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/conte ... 3A45%3A013

Reading this post then the article in the link has made me want to stay inside for a week and not go near anything motorised. I actually feel quite queasy thinking how often I'm on a bike in close proximity to HGVs.

My thoughts are with all concerned

Carlfran

I rode past this this morning- the poor girl- she was stuck under the lorry for a while. Can't stop thinking about it- any update much appreciated. It looked like she was going straight on and the lorry decided to go left and didn't see her- my friend said it's good to ride on the right of cars at this junction so they don't hit you when going left.

el_presidente

Well I am sure we can all rest assured the lorry driver will be adequately prosecuted to the full extent of the law

KitsuneAndy

Carlfran wrote:

I rode past this this morning- the poor girl- she was stuck under the lorry for a while. Can't stop thinking about it- any update much appreciated. It looked like she was going straight on and the lorry decided to go left and didn't see her- my friend said it's good to ride on the right of cars at this junction so they don't hit you when going left.

That's why you shouldn't really filter on the left, cycle lane or not

Things like this happen all too often. I've started adopting primary position on any bad junctions and all roundabouts on my commute, just to minimise the risk.

chuckcork

Absolutely frightening, I gave up counting the number of times I had an artic or lorry overtake me way too close ages ago.

It makes me glad that I'm not cycling in London anymore.

I hope she recovers.

downfader

I often hang WELL back if theres a lorry ahead, and never try and cut past. Just too dangerous imo, and thats been backed up by speaking to the lads at work - most lorries (indeed most firms) wont fit anything other than the most basic of mirrors and the drivers at work say its too hard to see at times.

Carlfran, I'm afraid that logic goes out of the window if a vehicle decides to turn right at a junction.. best to hang back rather than filter past lorries imo. :?

_Brun_

I see far too many cyclists who have very little appreciation of the danger they put themselves in, particularly round large vehicles. You know the sort, because they're not the ones who seem to be in any particular rush to get anywhere, unlike (dare I say it) messengers, who often ride like idiots but know exactly what they're doing.

A couple of months ago I thought some middle-aged woman on her shopping bike was in real trouble when she went past me, and down the inside of a stationary truck which was clearly indicating left at the time. There wasn't even enough space for her to cycle through the gap so she was pushing herself along with a foot on the kerb and just squeezed past the cab before the truck set off. I was speechless at the time, but caught up with her down the road and pointed out how stupidly reckless she'd been. She just seemed completely oblivious and not at all thankful.

A cement mixer I was stuck behind yesterday morning had a very explicit warning on the back, telling cylists not to filter down the left. First time I've ever noticed something like that, and it struck me as a very good idea.

I've obviously no idea if the above is of any relevence to today's accident, which sounds truly horrible. Sincerely hope the victim is relatively comfortable this evening, and makes a full recovery.

always_tyred

Look, some care should be applied to discussing an event like this. There is a woman presently, if she is lucky, with her life merely in bits. There's no indication that she was anything other than a victim.

Agreed, one should never enter the near side blind spot of a large vehicle from behind. However, there is no option but to enter that blind spot as the vehicle passes you. If the driver passes a cyclist, the cyclist enters the blind spot but does not re-appear again further back, then its the driver's responsibility not to complete a turn. Arguably, if there is sufficient warning (by means of indicators) then the cyclist should drop back. Even so, the cyclist should be visible before the turn is made. If the cyclist doesn't have time to drop back, or there is not enough distance for the cyclist to clear the vehicle before the turn is made, then by definition insufficient warning was provdided by the driver.

The fact is that this is a very difficult requirement for drivers of these vehicles. Therefore, the experienced cyclist tries their best to anticipate this type of danger and drop back as an event unfolds, without the need for the driver to indicate. Its that 6th sense of feeling in danger when there is space to your left, because the vehicle to your right might move over into it.

However, when road design specifically directs you into harm's way and it becomes difficult not to follow what other motorists assume is where you should go (because of the position of the cycle lane), then it becomes even more difficult for both the cyclist and the driver.

As such, I emphasise that it should be with caution that people suggest that simply "taking the primary" might have somehow avoided the incident. As I understand things, this is a relatively free flowing junction and it may simply not have been possible to take the primary (for example if there is a stream of cars in it who think you sould just stay in the cycle tightrope and won't let you in).

femalecyclist

I saw the girl under the wheel of the lorry this morning. I thought she was dead as she did not appear to be moving but very glad to read that she is still alive.

The same thing happened to me a few months ago at the same junction but I managed to mount the pavement to avoid an accident. the lorry never saw me and had not indicated to turn left which I always check as I pass vehicles at that junction. The lorry driver in that case was clearly at fault.

i am not saying that it was the case this morning.

lesson learnt never rely on indicators and always be careful with lorries....better safe than sorry

Cycle safely. life is too precious

Leedsblue

Always Tyred wrote:

Look, some care should be applied to discussing an event like this. There is a woman presently, if she is lucky, with her life merely in bits. There's no indication that she was anything other than a victim..

Nobody has suggested otherwise. I actually found the thread and the basic safety mentioned as being very good and it made me think a bit. Obviously we all feel for the girl, indeed any accident victim, however if we can learn anything from it then that is at least a small positive. (not much I know).

DonDaddyD

This is awful news.

I hope she recovers.

My thoughts are with her and all cyclists always.

fossyant

Sad accident, but don't undertake trucks, not saying this was the case but femalecyclist obviously did above That means do not filter on the inside at or near any junction

chuckcork

Always Tyred wrote:

Agreed, one should never enter the near side blind spot of a large vehicle from behind. However, there is no option but to enter that blind spot as the vehicle passes you. If the driver passes a cyclist, the cyclist enters the blind spot but does not re-appear again further back, then its the driver's responsibility not to complete a turn. Arguably, if there is sufficient warning (by means of indicators) then the cyclist should drop back. Even so, the cyclist should be visible before the turn is made. If the cyclist doesn't have time to drop back, or there is not enough distance for the cyclist to clear the vehicle before the turn is made, then by definition insufficient warning was provdided by the driver.

I think the elephant in the room is, as always, that these dangerous situations are created by various bodies like road designers who design them, planners who approve them, politicians who allow them to be funded (or not as the case may be), drivers who drive large heavy vehicles in a less than exemplary manner; but noone ever seems to bear any degree of responsibility for the consequences of doing so when someone is injured or killed, so the bad designs keep being produced, approved, funded, and the consequences of doing so repeatedly explained away.

Is it just that talking about cycling is too easy for the pollies, the ability to provide "facilities" so easily able to be designed on the cheap by the engineers in too little space and so quickly approved by planners who don't know better, and so easily defended by lawyers, that in the english speaking world we end up with inadequate funding, poor design, ill thought out strategies, and no consequence for those responsible?

Its not as if best practice when it comes to cycle safety is a new area, with a long history, is it?

How many fact finding missions and coroners reports does it take for gods sake?

woodford2barbican

_Brun_ wrote:

I see far too many cyclists who have very little appreciation of the danger they put themselves in, particularly round large vehicles. You know the sort, because they're not the ones who seem to be in any particular rush to get anywhere, unlike (dare I say it) messengers, who often ride like idiots but know exactly what they're doing.

A couple of months ago I thought some middle-aged woman on her shopping bike was in real trouble when she went past me, and down the inside of a stationary truck which was clearly indicating left at the time. There wasn't even enough space for her to cycle through the gap so she was pushing herself along with a foot on the kerb and just squeezed past the cab before the truck set off. I was speechless at the time, but caught up with her down the road and pointed out how stupidly reckless she'd been. She just seemed completely oblivious and not at all thankful.

A cement mixer I was stuck behind yesterday morning had a very explicit warning on the back, telling cylists not to filter down the left. First time I've ever noticed something like that, and it struck me as a very good idea.

I've obviously no idea if the above is of any relevence to today's accident, which sounds truly horrible. Sincerely hope the victim is relatively comfortable this evening, and makes a full recovery.

Earlier this week an artic waited patiently aat a junction indicating left - allowing all to clear and making sure no one was on his blindside. Then two idiots cycled, chatting up the inside of him!

I could not believe it *meldrew moment* and told them how stupid they were....and given that they were women told them a few stats about cyclists deaths......

karl j

_Brun_ wrote:

A cement mixer I was stuck behind yesterday morning had a very explicit warning on the back, telling cylists not to filter down the left. First time I've ever noticed something like that, and it struck me as a very good idea.

Yes, i see them quite often around here, but quite why anyone would want to cycle up the inside of a truck is beyond me. I seem to remember this topic being part of the good ole cycling proficiency test a number of moons ago

femalecyclist

fossyant wrote:

Sad accident, but don't undertake trucks, not saying this was the case but femalecyclist obviously did above That means do not filter on the inside at or near any junction

The light was red plus it was in a cycle lane. I was 3 cars in front of that lorry at the front of the line with a queue of cyclists in front of me hence why when the light turned green the lorry had time to overtake me and turn left.

Specialized Needs

fossyant wrote:

Sad accident, but don't undertake trucks, not saying this was the case but femalecyclist obviously did above That means do not filter on the inside at or near any junction

I think if you look at this Google map and zoom in on the left hand (northbound) carriageway of the road bridge you will see that a cycle lane appears from thin air inbetween the two lanes of traffic at the start of Blackfriars bridge, continues for a few hundred yards over the bridge (with normal motorised traffic either side - no bail out route for a cyclist once they have managed to filter across) to the north end traffic light junction. Any vehicle that gets into the right hand lane and decides it needs to turn left must cross the cycle lane. That may give a different view on femalecyclist's comment. I wasn't there, so don't feel qualified to comment. If I hadn't looked at the Google map after the original post yesterday, I wouldn't have been able to visualise the possible scenarios.

I appreciate reading the other comments in this thread about general cycling safety, and think there are some good tips. However, although I am sure it is not meant this way, I feel uncomfortable that some of the hints and tips may be interpreted as speculation on what may have led to this accident (I have not yet heard an authoritative source saying what caused the incident - I assume that due to its position there will be CCTV on the traffic somewhere around there). Perhaps me being over sensitive, and my apologies if I am. I hope this cyclist comes away from this incident alive and as well as she can be; and that, really, is as far as my thoughts are going at this time.

Stuart

Carlfran

It's all very well saying not to undertake lorries- but what if they turn left and you're going straight on, and you don't even see them as they're approaching you? What are you supposed to do then? I guess spend the whole time looking over your shoulder. Literally.