Saw a bike get creamed going through a red light today

woodford2barbican

I would like to say that I do not wish any RLJr harm - but it is rather like watching the stupid kid in class playing with an elastic band - there is a long drawn out wait until (inevitably) the band snaps and gives them a stinger.

My wishing them harm or not makes no difference - it happens anyway.

FlatEssexSociety

I give my heart and soul to helping those less fortunate than me

Just raising money to cure Cat AIDS in Afghanistan. Please all send a Pound to

"FES Orbea Orca Fund - Chelmsford"

Love to you all x

gtvlusso

So - you do have sympathy then......Are you sure?!

FlatEssexSociety

maybe. maybe not.

either way, I don't RLJ, I just ride fast between lights. I need the reds to stop and get breath back, smoke my pipe, etc.

I do also wear a helmet, but I'm in an abusive relationship with an ex-stripper.

I like gtvlusso. you seem fun.

gtvlusso

Do you have a charity number for the Cat aids thing....? I am raising money to give warmth to Eskimo pussy....they say it is mighty cold.

cougie

Its self inflicted. They jumped a red light. If they hadnt - none of this would have happened. Silly fool.

woodford2barbican

gtvlusso wrote:

What planet are you from Woodford?

Is it the planet "dontgiveashit"?

No, in the example of tragic consequences to a stupid act that led to this thread I feel sympathy with the driver for what we all know might have seriously injured or killed someone through no fault of their own.

So I think I come from the planet of "giveashitappropriately".

gtvlusso

I am loving this!!! Come on people lets have the one liners (no nicking anyone else's lines...like I did).

And Woodford, he nicked my planet line...

FlatEssexSociety

gtvlusso - good. you get the idea.

If this forum was prison, you're now my bitch.

and it's shower time.

But going to the pub, so you're safe. :P

FlatEssexSociety

they just stopped me typing 'female dog'

gtvlusso

I am being patronised again, thats it - I am gonna find a roadie in full race kit and give him the ol' "Meus Tergum, Vestri Visio" on the way home.

FlatEssexSociety

gtvlusso - are you sure you're being patronised? really sure?

It can be hard for someone like you to tell, but we really want to help you.

Have lovely weekends, it's been emotional.

woodford2barbican

gtvlusso wrote:

I am being patronised again, thats it - I am gonna find a roadie in full race kit and give him the ol' "Meus Tergum, Vestri Visio" on the way home.

Is that the end of the fun? I apologise for being a bit of a troll this week.....no idea why, I just have been.

Anyway, no ride for me tonight - working from home.

gtvlusso

Take it easy - I love a good argument in the afternoon - puts me in the right mood to deal with the fact that my kitchen looks like a student has been using it and the clutch has gone on the car....

Good weekend all. Always good to get the blood rushing once in a while, lets you know that you are still alive - even if you agree to disagree.

andrewjoseph

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

...
DId the car manage to stop in time for the red light?

Hell no, he was trying to overtake!

I'd rather risk going through the lights as they change than trust the reflexes and stopping power of the 1 tonne vehicle 2m behind me!

Greg T

Bugger - fireworks and funny dudes and I missed it all working....

andrewc3142

I'm stunned by the reaction of some of the above posts to a cyclist getting involved in an accident. Almost like some people are delighted it happened.

Sick.

I hope he or she is OK.

saveswalking

RLJ when safe to do so - just like crossing the road

sw

il_principe

andrewjoseph wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

...
DId the car manage to stop in time for the red light?

Hell no, he was trying to overtake!

I'd rather risk going through the lights as they change than trust the reflexes and stopping power of the 1 tonne vehicle 2m behind me!

Riiight, the Dick Cheney approach. Known knowns, known unknowns,unknown unknowns etc. So there's a car behind you you know about, so you RLJ... what about all the other cars going on green (peds walking, kids running etc) that you don't know about. By not RLJing you don't put others at risk. Perhaps you should try trusting drivers a little more instead of risking yourself and others.

chuckcork

jashburnham wrote:

Riiight, the Dick Cheney approach. Known knowns, known unknowns,unknown unknowns etc. quote]

Donald Rumsfeld - This comment before the war in Iraq won the US Secretary of Defence the 2003 Award for Gobbledygook from the Plain English Campaign.

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know."

Coriander

chuckcork wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

Riiight, the Dick Cheney approach. Known knowns, known unknowns,unknown unknowns etc. quote]

Donald Rumsfeld - This comment before the war in Iraq won the US Secretary of Defence the 2003 Award for Gobbledygook from the Plain English Campaign.

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know."

Actually that is a perfectly logical and well expressed thought. But it is a slightly complicated idea. Which does not make it badly expressed. And anyone who can't understand what he said probably shouldn't be permitted to vote. That Gobbledygook Award was utterly unfair (for this comment). And no, I am not a Donald Rumsfeld fan.

andrewc3142

Totally off-topic, but this has got to be the best of Rumsfeld:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQk72bp7B84

andrewjoseph

jashburnham wrote:

..
Riiight, the Dick Cheney approach. Known knowns, known unknowns,unknown unknowns etc. So there's a car behind you you know about, so you RLJ... what about all the other cars going on green (peds walking, kids running etc) that you don't know about. By not RLJing you don't put others at risk. Perhaps you should try trusting drivers a little more instead of risking yourself and others.

The crossing was empty, all other traffic was stationary (apart from me and the car behind me), and all traffic was visible, i don't take risks unnecessarily

don't make judgements about situations you know nothing about, including the original post.

As for trusting other drivers, you must be joking! After all you have experienced yourself, after all you read about careless drivers killing and maiming riders either deliberatly or though inattention, you are telling me to trust a driver??!! That is how you get killed in a car on a motor bike and especially on a cycle!

I was taught to ride motorbikes by police riders, they drum into you 'assume everyone else is stupid!'.

I was taught defensive driving/riding and to trust no-one but myself, to know my limits and strengths and ride within them. On this occasion, I decided to run the lights as it was safer for everyone else, especially myself.

Saying you must never run a light, or break any other traffic law, is dangerously, stupidly, ignoring of the facts of life. Occasionally, breaking the law is the safest option, even the police will tell you that.

I would rather break the law, get prosecuted and take my punishment, than blindly obey the rules and get squished.

il_principe

andrewjoseph wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

..
Riiight, the Dick Cheney approach. Known knowns, known unknowns,unknown unknowns etc. So there's a car behind you you know about, so you RLJ... what about all the other cars going on green (peds walking, kids running etc) that you don't know about. By not RLJing you don't put others at risk. Perhaps you should try trusting drivers a little more instead of risking yourself and others.

The crossing was empty, all other traffic was stationary (apart from me and the car behind me), and all traffic was visible, I don't take risks unnecessarily

don't make judgements about situations you know nothing about, including the original post.

As for trusting other drivers, you must be joking! After all you have experienced yourself, after all you read about careless drivers killing and maiming riders either deliberatly or though inattention, you are telling me to trust a driver??!! That is how you get killed in a car on a motor bike and especially on a cycle!

I was taught to ride motorbikes by police riders, they drum into you 'assume everyone else is stupid!'.

I was taught defensive driving/riding and to trust no-one but myself, to know my limits and strengths and ride within them. On this occasion, I decided to run the lights as it was safer for everyone else, especially myself.

Saying you must never run a light, or break any other traffic law, is dangerously, stupidly, ignoring of the facts of life. Occasionally, breaking the law is the safest option, even the police will tell you that.

I would rather break the law, get prosecuted and take my punishment, than blindly obey the rules and get squished.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this. You are just making far too many assumptions - assuming the car behind will hit you if you don't RLJ, assuming the coast is clear because you can see it is... most accidents happen when people see the coast as being clear when in fact it isn't - i.e. SMIDSY. In my world it has to be safer to stop at red because that means the other junction is green and therefore there is a chance that there will be traffic. I would imagine that the bloke the OP saw thought the way was clear – he’s unlikely to deliberately ride into traffic. Just because you think a junction is clear doesn’t mean that it is.

And at what point did I say "never break a traffic law?" I'm not stupid and will always put my safety above the rules if necessary, however I don't think that by RLJ'ing you are making your self safer. If I'd been in your situation I'd prefer to get off the road onto a pavement than run the risk of jumping a light. I ride in London and if I RLJ'd every time there was a car right up my arse, revving etc then I'd rarely stop at junctions. Quite how you can can conclude that your RLJ was safer for you and everyone else I don't know. For you maybe but just by jumping that light you ran the risk of jeopardising other people's safety.

RLJ’ers particularly irritate me because I have nearly been hit twice by these morons, I really would not appreciate the irony of being knocked off my bike by a fellow cyclist.

biondino

Jash, I think since he was there and you weren't (and he does seem to know a bit about safety) you have to assume that in the split second he had to decide, RLJing *did seem* the safest option. Which isn't to say you're not right about most things!

biondino

I finally shouted at one today. Dude had stopped at the red light, and yet when a whole crowd of peds started crossing he took off, having to swerve to avoid them. I shouted "oi! Red light!" and he looked around, either baffled or annoyed, then cycled off. What a tosser.

boybiker

Some people seem to be completely oblivious to danger. I think most people know someone who is always doing something which makes them cringe and I think that this maybe part of the problem.
Also the fact that some people feel the need to be seen as non-conformist and doing dangerous stuff is one way of getting noticed and getting the burds. Most people seem to discover that you can be nonconformist without being spread all over the road.

andrewjoseph

jashburnham wrote:

...

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.

no, it would seem not.

You are just making far too many assumptions

As are you.

- assuming the car behind will hit you if you don't RLJ, assuming the coast is clear because you can see it is... most accidents happen when people see the coast as being clear when in fact it isn't - i.e. SMIDSY. In my world it has to be safer to stop at red because that means the other junction is green and therefore there is a chance that there will be traffic. I would imagine that the bloke the OP saw thought the way was clear – he’s unlikely to deliberately ride into traffic. Just because you think a junction is clear doesn’t mean that it is.

And at what point did I say "never break a traffic law?"

It would seem to be implied when you said:
By not RLJing you don't put others at risk

I'm not stupid and will always put my safety above the rules if necessary,

so you would jump the light if you thought it was the safest option, why then are you arguing with me?

however I don't think that by RLJ'ing you are making your self safer. If I'd been in your situation I'd prefer to get off the road onto a pavement than run the risk of jumping a light.

you don't know the situation, the pavement wasn't an option.

I ride in London and if I RLJ'd every time there was a car right up my ars*, revving etc then I'd rarely stop at junctions.

Admittedly riding in london is generally going to be more risky than my small welsh town, but that doesn't mean individual incidents will always be more dangerous in big cities.

Quite how you can can conclude that your RLJ was safer for you and everyone else I don't know.

That's because I was there and you weren't.

For you maybe but just by jumping that light you ran the risk of jeopardising other people's safety.

yes it was a risk, I've admitted that, but i contend it was the lesser risk.

RLJ’ers particularly irritate me because I have nearly been hit twice by these morons, I really would not appreciate the irony of being knocked off my bike by a fellow cyclist.

If there had been people crossing then I would have tried to stop, but the car behind me would have taken out both me and those people crossing the road.

We'll have to agree to disagree, though it seems that you agree with me in principle.

il_principe

andrewjoseph wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

...

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.

no, it would seem not.

- assuming the car behind will hit you if you don't RLJ, assuming the coast is clear because you can see it is... most accidents happen when people see the coast as being clear when in fact it isn't - i.e. SMIDSY. In my world it has to be safer to stop at red because that means the other junction is green and therefore there is a chance that there will be traffic. I would imagine that the bloke the OP saw thought the way was clear – he’s unlikely to deliberately ride into traffic. Just because you think a junction is clear doesn’t mean that it is.

And at what point did I say "never break a traffic law?"

It would seem to be implied when you said:
By not RLJing you don't put others at risk

I'm not stupid and will always put my safety above the rules if necessary,

so you would jump the light if you thought it was the safest option, why then are you arguing with me?

however I don't think that by RLJ'ing you are making your self safer. If I'd been in your situation I'd prefer to get off the road onto a pavement than run the risk of jumping a light.

you don't know the situation, the pavement wasn't an option.

I ride in London and if I RLJ'd every time there was a car right up my ars*, revving etc then I'd rarely stop at junctions.

Admittedly riding in london is generally going to be more risky than my small welsh town, but that doesn't mean individual incidents will always be more dangerous in big cities.

Quite how you can can conclude that your RLJ was safer for you and everyone else I don't know.

That's because I was there and you weren't.

For you maybe but just by jumping that light you ran the risk of jeopardising other people's safety.

yes it was a risk, I've admitted that, but i contend it was the lesser risk.

RLJ’ers particularly irritate me because I have nearly been hit twice by these morons, I really would not appreciate the irony of being knocked off my bike by a fellow cyclist.

If there had been people crossing then I would have tried to stop, but the car behind me would have taken out both me and those people crossing the road.

We'll have to agree to disagree, though it seems that you agree with me in principle.

You're not going to convince me by selectively quoting my responses and then leaping to conclusions about what I would and wouldn't do. You complain about my assumptions and then assume I would RLJ because I put my safety first. I wouldn't RLJ in your situation - I know where all the junctions on my commute are and (being risk averse), I seek to minimise potential risk before reaching them. Of course the fact that In London I'm generally travelling at the same speed as the traffic helps. If a car gets right up my behind then I usually try and make eye contact with them - usually that's enough to get them to back off or slow down - I've yet to come across a driver who is actively trying to knock me off. Of course riding in primary whenever possible helps. I've never had to take evasive action due to a vehicle behind me and London (as I'm sure you are a ware) is a busy place.

Besides which you say the light had just turned red and there was a car right behind you - given that, I find it hard to believe that you had enough time to fully ensure the junction was clear anyway.

But as you say we are both making assumptions so will have to agree to disagree. However I invite you to come and try cycling in London for a few days, if the constant RLJ'ing you'd see didn't change your opinion I'd be surprised.

andrewjoseph

jashburnham wrote:

...
But as you say we are both making assumptions so will have to agree to disagree. However I invite you to come and try cycling in London for a few days, if the constant RLJ'ing you'd see didn't change your opinion I'd be surprised.

Cool, who's paying?