Saw a bike get creamed going through a red light today

zeroseven

Central London. Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. Anyone who ignores red lights should get nicked or knocked off.

prj45

zeroseven wrote:

Central London. Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. Anyone who ignores red lights should get nicked or knocked off.

Well, I'm 50/50 on this. Traffic coming the other way shouldn't assume the road is clear.

If the guy on the bike rode into the side of a van then fair play.

saveswalking

The 'bike' got 'creamed' ? What state is/was the rider in then?

sw

andrewjoseph

zeroseven wrote:

Central London. Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. Anyone who ignores red lights should get nicked or knocked off.

Arrested/warned yes,

knocked off?!!

Sometimes you can't stop safely in time (car up you backside).

zeroseven

Those defending this I would suggest haven't been to Central london lately. I saw 15/20 pushbikes go through a red in old street.

As for braking safely thats utter nonsenses Andrew and you know it.

farrell

Well! maybe the idiot won't do it again.......RLJ are accidents waiting to happen.

No sympathy from me.

downfader

I wouldnt wish injury on anyone who has done that but I do think theres an element of the pretty-bleedin-obvious about it and why it shouldnt be done. :?

If I'm heading down hill towards lights I try and keep my eye on traffic behind. Sometimes if its just going amber its safer to go through rather than have the pillock who is right on my back wheel flick me into the kerb. :?

el_presidente

be careful out there RLJers. Even when BSNYC fights the law - the law wins

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... -cops.html

il_principe

Puts pay to the tired old RLJ'ers argument "I jump because it's safer." Serves 'em right. I've nearly been hit by RLJ'ers a few times in the last few years, morons the lot of them.

Coriander

Last time I was at West Ken a RLJer literally ended up under a car - and it was serious, 3 ambulances, 8 medical staff attending to him (and their body language did not suggest it was looking good).

I've started shouting at RLJers when I catch up with them or as they whizz past me at the lights. It really f**ks me off - the anger and lack of respect for cyclists they invoke in car drivers puts my life at risk.

OMG, I am becoming a grumpy, old woman, aren't I? :shock:

marchant

Coriander wrote:

OMG, I am becoming a grumpy, old woman, aren't I? :shock:

I wouldnt've said so; nobody wants to see an accident like that once, let alone twice

il_principe

Coriander wrote:

Last time I was at West Ken a RLJer literally ended up under a car - and it was serious, 3 ambulances, 8 medical staff attending to him (and their body language did not suggest it was looking good).

I've started shouting at RLJers when I catch up with them or as they whizz past me at the lights. It really f**ks me off - the anger and lack of respect for cyclists they invoke in car drivers puts my life at risk.

OMG, I am becoming a grumpy, old woman, aren't I? :shock:

No you're not. I went through a stage of shouting at them but I've given up. The funny thing is many of them are 35+ and look as if they really should know better.

Greg T

jashburnham wrote:

No you're not. I went through a stage of shouting at them but I've given up. The funny thing is many of them are 35+ and look as if they really should know better.

This amazes me.

I see kitted up serious looking roadies RLJ.....

I don't get it.

georgee

After 2 years of bike commuting in central London i'm still yet to see a decent accident involving a RLJ. Always imagine i'll be sat waiting when the tw*t who just sailed on through getting knocked 10 foot in the air by a white van.

No sympathy for them, must have counted 20 went through a set of temporaries on the Fulham Road on Tuesday.

biondino

If you were guaranteed there were never any police around when you RLJed, would you do it more often?

woodford2barbican

biondino wrote:

If you were guaranteed there were never any police around when you RLJed, would you do it more often?

no.

no sympathy for this guy either - "jump & die" is what runs through my mind anytime I even briefly consider it.

maybe RLJrs don't have minds and that is why they do it....?

Still to see any posts on this thread defending it yet.

Kieran_Burns

I see it every day on the way home in the middle of Derby. People jumping through the lights, hopping onto and off the pavement - one middle-aged guy (in a suit) blithley sailing through on the wrong side past some bollards and skipping across the traffic.
I just sit there and think "idiots" and get on with it.

Mind you... I DO go through the pelican lights when it is ABSOLUTELY clear no one will cross.. if anyone is near i wait - and it's the ONLY time I will go through.

lost_in_thought

I think 'no sympathy' may be a bit too far, OK, they're fools for RLJing, especially without checking first, but I don't think that they deserve to end up under a car, and I'd still be very sympathetic.

If it was a pedestrian running out trying to cross the road in front of a van, how would you react? I think I'd react the same - 'ah you idiot, but nobody deserves that'.

If you're going to RLJ, which I wouldn't advise, then at least make sure there's not an oncoming vehicle. :shock:

Coriander

As a quintessentially selfish person, I worry more about my safety than RLJs - it's their life to risk, mine, however, isn't.

Everyone who jumps a red light pisses off drivers and leads to a leeching of respect for cyclists and intolerance from drivers. That leads to less consideration and patience from drivers towards cyclists.

So, no, even if there's no-one around, I don't jump red lights.

Now, where did I leave that halo...?

Bassjunkieuk

I have yet to see an accident involving a RLJer, no matter how much I will it when I see them go flying through. I don't really want a serious accident as that's not fair on the driver but just something bad enough to make them need clean shorts and maybe change their ways!

I'd also have to agree with Mr Ashburnham that some of the people who RLJ are the people you least expect, older guys (and gals) and who really know better and aren't going to have the same reactions or speed/ability to move quickly as a younger cyclist should it all go wrong!

On a recent charity ride I was riding along with an older guy on the final few miles, I'd say he was at least 50, on a rather nice Specialized road bike. He had full matching kit and helmet etc so obviously a fairly keen rider. As we descending down into Hove he ran every single set of lights :evil: I lost pretty much all respect for him then as it was completely un-necessary!

DonDaddyD

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I

Mind you... I DO go through the pelican lights when it is ABSOLUTELY clear no one will cross.. if anyone is near i wait - and it's the ONLY time I will go through.

I thought that constitutes RLJing as well?

Don't get me wrong I do this if its a pedestrian crossing (Pelican, Puffin, Toucan) and there is clearly no one at the lights then I tend not to stop.

If its a complex junction with cars coming from a side road joining the main road, basically a freaking junction, then yes I stop.

But I'm a little put out by all the hate for RLJers, last weekend I was hit by a car. I stopped at a red light. When the lights went green I set off on my bike and the car behind hit me! The two lane road is quite narrow but I was clearly infront of him, in the right position and visible. The arsehole didn't give me enough space or enough time before he started accelerating and he didn't stop to see if I was alright after he had hit me.

No damage was done to me or my bike but it made me think that had I mounted the pavement to get to the front (the road is narrow and bikes are forced to stop between cars as there is no space to fliter and even the cars are huddled against the kerb) or had I simply RLJ and turned left (when safe as there were no cars coming from the left and the angle of the junction allows you to look down that road) I wouldn't have been hit!

Like Coriander has said about her being selfish and concerned about her own safety. I'm concerned about my own. If I'm at a red light and I've got a boy racer or a cab driver up my arse revving their engine or who looks like the type who doesn't give a 'phluck' about the space and time I need then yes, if safe, I will RLJ based on the fact that I got fricking knocked over having stopped and waited at a red light.

OldSkoolKona

Have to say, that I'm heartened by the general consensus on here against RLJ'ers - I was beginning to lose hope by what I observe commuting to work in London.

Yes, I'm sure there are instances when being a RLJer is safer, but I'm of the opinion they're few and far between and the whole subject is one of the main gripes the general public have against cyclists and deservedly so. There was an instance of where a RLJer ran into a group of primary school kids walking to school train near where I live and I have seen numerous near misses and slow speed impacts where the driver has seen the cyclist and stopped in time.

My faith was though slightly restored yesterday on the way home, when a roadie came past me to go to the front of a traffic lighted junction, well past the stop line. I thought, here he goes, about to jump out at the easiest opportunity. But no, he waiting until the light was going green, and he was turning left where he wasn't cutting across the traffic.

Bassjunkieuk

DonDaddyD wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I

Mind you... I DO go through the pelican lights when it is ABSOLUTELY clear no one will cross.. if anyone is near i wait - and it's the ONLY time I will go through.

I thought that constitutes RLJing as well?

Don't get me wrong I do this if its a pedestrian crossing (Pelican, Puffin, Toucan) and there is clearly no one at the lights then I tend not to stop.

If its a complex junction with cars coming from a side road joining the main road, basically a freaking junction, then yes I stop.

But I'm a little put out by all the hate for RLJers, last weekend I was hit by a car. I stopped at a red light. When the lights went green I set off on my bike and the car behind hit me! The two lane road is quite narrow but I was clearly infront of him, in the right position and visible. The arsehole didn't give me enough space or enough time before he started accelerating and he didn't stop to see if I was alright after he had hit me.

No damage was done to me or my bike but it made me think that had I mounted the pavement to get to the front (the road is narrow and bikes are forced to stop between cars as there is no space to fliter and even the cars are huddled against the kerb) or had I simply RLJ and turned left (when safe as there were no cars coming from the left and the angle of the junction allows you to look down that road) I wouldn't have been hit!

Like Coriander has said about her being selfish and concerned about her own safety. I'm concerned about my own. If I'm at a red light and I've got a boy racer or a cab driver up my ars* revving their engine or who looks like the type who doesn't give a 'phluck' about the space and time I need then yes, if safe, I will RLJ based on the fact that I got fricking knocked over having stopped and waited at a red light.

I'm very sorry to hear about this accident that occurred and have heard this happen (I was already ahead!) to another cyclist as we pulled off from lights heading towards Elephant and Castle. The guy was on a Langster so was starting to push off on his lone gear and the car just seemingly rear-ended him!

It is rather worrying that a car driver can make such an obvious mis-judgement, but then they seem to treat most journeys like a race where every millisecond saved by driving like a tw4t is worth it.

I'm guessing that as the driver didn't stop you didn't get his details? If so that's a shame as I'm sure the police would be rather interested in this one, but then again I got taken out by a van that turned accross me once in Streatham and I'm damn sure they must have heard the thud on the side but they didn't stop either....

jonginge

Both the above incidents were 'hit and run' offences, breaking the mandatory rule 286 of the highway code. Should report it...

andrewjoseph

zeroseven wrote:

Those defending this I would suggest haven't been to Central london lately. I saw 15/20 pushbikes go through a red in old street.

As for braking safely thats utter nonsenses Andrew and you know it.

No, it happened to me again today. Coming up to the lights on green, get to within ten yards and they change to yellow, the car behind me was only 2 meters away. i was not going to slow down. i went through the light as it was changing to red.

I ran a red light as it was safer to do so than try to stop.

I'm not advocating running red lights, just stating the fact that sometimes it's unavoidable, it may have been the case in you original post, or maybe the rider was stupid, I don't know.

saying it's stupid in one thing, gloating and saying they deserve it is another and is of concern. it's people who laugh at riders (or anyone) getting run over and hurt who encourage drivers to take risks with riders.

it's only a short step to doing it yourself.

chuckcork

JonGinge wrote:

Both the above incidents were 'hit and run' offences, breaking the mandatory rule 286 of the highway code. Should report it...

For all that they aren't likely to do anything anyway, if you don't report it they cannot do anything about it at all.

If you do report it it is on their books, even if they don't do anything it stays an unsolved crime which of course makes them look bad.

But who knows, they might be able to muster the resources and look at some CCTV which we are all told is there for our "safety" and track down the make etc of the vehicle that hit you? Not as if they don't do that for any other kind of serious crime, and then use that evidence in court.

jedster

I think 'no sympathy' may be a bit too far, OK, they're fools for RLJing, especially without checking first, but I don't think that they deserve to end up under a car, and I'd still be very sympathetic.

agreed. they only have themselves to blame but no sympathy is a bit harsh

Bassjunkieuk

andrewjoseph wrote:

zeroseven wrote:

Those defending this I would suggest haven't been to Central london lately. I saw 15/20 pushbikes go through a red in old street.

As for braking safely thats utter nonsenses Andrew and you know it.

No, it happened to me again today. Coming up to the lights on green, get to within ten yards and they change to yellow, the car behind me was only 2 meters away. i was not going to slow down. i went through the light as it was changing to red.

I ran a red light as it was safer to do so than try to stop.

I'm not advocating running red lights, just stating the fact that sometimes it's unavoidable, it may have been the case in you original post, or maybe the rider was stupid, I don't know.

saying it's stupid in one thing, gloating and saying they deserve it is another and is of concern. it's people who laugh at riders (or anyone) getting run over and hurt who encourage drivers to take risks with riders.

it's only a short step to doing it yourself.

DId the car manage to stop in time for the red light? If so I don't see any danger in trying to stop as both you and the car should be decelerating at the same time. Admittedly running the light on the amber/red phase isn't quite as bad as running a "proper" red.

In regards to them deserving it I do believe this to be the case. If your going to take a pointless risk by riding through a junction when other traffic quite rightly isn't expecting you to be there, I think you should be ready to take the majority of the blame. I don't see quite how this encourages drivers to take risks with riders lives as I know for one that whilst I despise riders who jump light's I'd also not like to be the driver that knocks one off. If anything I'm more aware of my surroundings when driving, after riding my bike around for 2 years commuting around London, then I was before. I guess because I became so used to paying attention to things on my bike it's rubbed off on my driving, and made me better for it- in my car I still feel quite cut off and removed from the road and felt very dis-orientated the first time I went out in the dark with heavy rain after not driving for a few months as I suddenly had great big chunks of metal blocking my view and couldn't hear the other traffic around me!

Parkey

I've come to the conclusion that the best thing to do when Mr RLJ trundles past, through the lights and out into the junction, is shout "LOOK OUT!!!!!" after them.

This is "to warn everybody that someone's run the lights". It is not because I like to see them jump, panic, or get paranoid.

:roll:

gtvlusso

Nice to see so much concern for the poor person on the bike who was knocked off - for whatever reason.......you bunch of arrogant bastards - "no sympathy etc etc"- what gives you the right to value life so low and judge people when they may require help and assistance? Hope you get knocked off yourself soon you complete bunch of "no sympathy" long fleshy objects.

So, lets all start the old RLJ debate again......oh yeah, I am bored of it.

DonDaddyD

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I

Mind you... I DO go through the pelican lights when it is ABSOLUTELY clear no one will cross.. if anyone is near i wait - and it's the ONLY time I will go through.

I thought that constitutes RLJing as well?

Don't get me wrong I do this if its a pedestrian crossing (Pelican, Puffin, Toucan) and there is clearly no one at the lights then I tend not to stop.

If its a complex junction with cars coming from a side road joining the main road, basically a freaking junction, then yes I stop.

But I'm a little put out by all the hate for RLJers, last weekend I was hit by a car. I stopped at a red light. When the lights went green I set off on my bike and the car behind hit me! The two lane road is quite narrow but I was clearly infront of him, in the right position and visible. The arsehole didn't give me enough space or enough time before he started accelerating and he didn't stop to see if I was alright after he had hit me.

No damage was done to me or my bike but it made me think that had I mounted the pavement to get to the front (the road is narrow and bikes are forced to stop between cars as there is no space to fliter and even the cars are huddled against the kerb) or had I simply RLJ and turned left (when safe as there were no cars coming from the left and the angle of the junction allows you to look down that road) I wouldn't have been hit!

Like Coriander has said about her being selfish and concerned about her own safety. I'm concerned about my own. If I'm at a red light and I've got a boy racer or a cab driver up my ars* revving their engine or who looks like the type who doesn't give a 'phluck' about the space and time I need then yes, if safe, I will RLJ based on the fact that I got fricking knocked over having stopped and waited at a red light.

I'm very sorry to hear about this accident that occurred and have heard this happen (I was already ahead!) to another cyclist as we pulled off from lights heading towards Elephant and Castle. The guy was on a Langster so was starting to push off on his lone gear and the car just seemingly rear-ended him!

It is rather worrying that a car driver can make such an obvious mis-judgement, but then they seem to treat most journeys like a race where every millisecond saved by driving like a tw4t is worth it.

I'm guessing that as the driver didn't stop you didn't get his details? If so that's a shame as I'm sure the police would be rather interested in this one, but then again I got taken out by a van that turned accross me once in Streatham and I'm damn sure they must have heard the thud on the side but they didn't stop either....

This is why I'm so surprised at your stance, you and I operate on the same patch (*nerd* a little like Daredevil and Spider-man *nerd*). The A23, especially from Croydon to Brixton, is a every man for him self situation, sometimes and at some light its just better and safer for all to simply go through the red lights.

The junction at the top of Brixton Hill heading towards Brixton (where Christ Church road is) its best to stop.