The 'War On The Streets'

robmanic1

Look at it this way, in a hundred years who's gonna care?

cee

Clever Pun wrote:

cee.. what about the kinfe crime epidemic in london a whole 14 people out of 7 millions have been stabbed and now you can shank someone on facebook... the countries going to hell in a handbasket....

going on the above about knife crime.... you have a 0.0002% chance of getting done, seriously what's the problem?

Unless you live in Glasgow.....where you have a 0.0002% chance of not being stabbed. Actually...you never hear about the Glasgow knife statistics....mostly Londons....thats interesting isn't it. I suppose 7 million people are a lot if your main game is trying to generate fear!

Sorry...back on topic......the real reason is that people are selfish knuts.

victor ludorum

andrewc3142 wrote:

Well, I spend between 2 and 4 hours a day commuting, about half in central London and the other half in suburbs/Surrey.

The last time I had anything remotely resembling an "incident" was about a year ago when a van moved across lanes without looking, but no big deal since I thought he would and had made allowance for it.

I find riding very relaxing and non-stressful. I don't get worked up about things and (as far as I've noticed) neither to others get any more worked up about me than than the usual rather sad apoplectic state of puce perma-rage of some road users (car drivers, WVM, cyclists alike).

I'm genuinely interested and a littel puzzled to see that others seem to have so many problems, on a daily basis.

Stay cool.

You misunderstand. I'm not worked up into an egotistical rage. (How dare X, do this to me?!) I'm not overly anxious about drivers doing stupid things - I am a decent and cautious cyclist, I'm only really at risk from the real nutters and the possibility of real bad luck. I don't have daily problems, but I see so many and it has worn me down. I am worn down by the constant petty inhumanities which people inflict upon each other in the process of travelling to and from work. It isn't just when they happen to me or my partner, or my friends. It is how it debases all of us.

I know that far worse is done every day. But that isn't really the point.

robmanic1

I can't tolerate intolerant people

Surf-Matt

We lived in London for a year (Docklands) and the bikes never left the apartment block - yet I have always loved cycling.

Just decided it was too risky and not much fun to cycle there.

Kingston (3.5 months) was okay - Richmond Park was nearby and the Downs weren't too far.

Cornwall is flipping heaven compared to either though - although there are a fair share of (usually tourist) road gits here too.

I think people are just getting more and more stressed, less and less tolerent and so more and more stupid.

There has been a fatal road accident every day for the past week here in Cornwall. We very rarely get such incidents. Crowds just make people do silly things (tourist season in full swing down here).And London has LOTS of them.

chuckcork

iainment wrote:

[
I'm moving from London to Kerry next month and find the same as you when cycling in Ireland. So I'm looking forward to less aggressive cars on my commute to Tralee.

I cycle from Midleton to Cork everyday along the N25, mostly good hard shoulder, not fun in the heavy rain this week though, especially the crap bits. Two flats from glass this week as well .

Club rides are mostly in the County, occasionall moron who passes within 6 inches when they have an entire width of road and both lanes to use, but most are OK. I think the idiots are mostly the young and impatient, probably watching too much Channel 4 and reading the Sun. and getting negative vibes from that...

A lot more space though for evryone definitely helps.

iainment

chuckcork wrote:

iainment wrote:

[
I'm moving from London to Kerry next month and find the same as you when cycling in Ireland. So I'm looking forward to less aggressive cars on my commute to Tralee.

I cycle from Midleton to Cork everyday along the N25, mostly good hard shoulder, not fun in the heavy rain this week though, especially the crap bits. Two flats from glass this week as well .

Club rides are mostly in the County, occasionall moron who passes within 6 inches when they have an entire width of road and both lanes to use, but most are OK. I think the idiots are mostly the young and impatient, probably watching too much Channel 4 and reading the Sun. and getting negative vibes from that...

A lot more space though for evryone definitely helps.

I'll be going from Killorglin to Tralee, which I've done a few times and enjoyed - especially pretending to be a grimpeur over the hill into Tralee.

Can't wait.

andrewc3142

I'm not worked up into an egotistical rage

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you are. Apologies if you thought I was. I was really just musing on the various stages/forms of stress/road rage I see around me and read about but I can honestly say I only very rarely experience. I get it sometimes in a taxi or as a passenger with an aggressive drive, swearing and cursing at all around them. I see the same as them but can't see anything to get worked up about.

I don't know if you've seen the Top Gear episode where they race by car/public transport/bike to City Airport. Each to their own, but Mr Hammond was getting incredibly worked up about anyone and anything for no reason I could discern, other than the fact it was on TV.

And I agree with entirely about the pettiness, lack of respect and sometimes nastiness that people exhibit, on and off the road.

Cheers

Andy

karl j

Can fully understand the OP, haven't got an answer though. It's certainly not just a London thing - this was mine last week in good ole Norwich and i believe another forum'er (downfaded?) had a similar episode this week.

What causes impatience ? i dunno but there's probably a research grant somewhere awaiting anyone who cares to investigate.

victor ludorum

andrewc3142 wrote:

I don't know if you've seen the Top Gear episode where they race by car/public transport/bike to City Airport. Each to their own, but Mr Hammond was getting incredibly worked up about anyone and anything for no reason I could discern, other than the fact it was on TV.

No offence taken at all. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not suffering from road rage so much as road disappointment.

I have seen the episode of Top Gear in question (I don't particularly like cars and can't stand Jeremy Clarkson, but I am an addict. I can't explain it.) and I've just watched that particular clip on the BBC website.

Quite aside from anything else, Hammond was riding extremely badly. He wasn't actually breaking any laws - he actually said 'mustn't jump the lights, I'm on telly.' but he swapped lanes without looking or signalling in front of oncoming traffic (he stitched up a porsche overtaking a stationary lorry on Kew Bridge in the first minute or so).

He kept being caught out by buses stopping at bus stops (its not like its a novel behaviour...) and tried to pull out from right up behind them rather than giving plenty of room and filtering to overtake.

He kept complaining about 3m long bicycle lanes which were actually filter lanes for ASLs. He ran up one of these filter lanes to undertake a left turning security van.

He appeared to ride the entire way on the middle ring of his tiny triple. He mounted a kerb to enter a cycle path, obstructing another cyclist who was already on the path and going past him (a girl!).

Basically, he chose a terrible route and then rode it very badly. No wonder he was getting so worked up.

chuckcork

Yes, but Mark Hammon is a car driver on a bike, which is not a great advertisement for cycling at all. A fit experienced urban cyclist, would even with obeying all road traffic laws (as we all of course do) probably leave him for dead, and be a lot safer in the bargain.

Clever Pun

Surf-Matt wrote:

We lived in London for a year (Docklands) and the bikes never left the apartment block - yet I have always loved cycling.

Just decided it was too risky and not much fun to cycle there.

Kingston (3.5 months) was okay - Richmond Park was nearby and the Downs weren't too far.

Cornwall is flipping heaven compared to either though - although there are a fair share of (usually tourist) road gits here too.

I think people are just getting more and more stressed, less and less tolerent and so more and more stupid.

There has been a fatal road accident every day for the past week here in Cornwall. We very rarely get such incidents. Crowds just make people do silly things (tourist season in full swing down here).And London has LOTS of them.

these are intrinsically linked

always_tyred

cee wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

cee.. what about the kinfe crime epidemic in london a whole 14 people out of 7 millions have been stabbed and now you can shank someone on facebook... the countries going to hell in a handbasket....

going on the above about knife crime.... you have a 0.0002% chance of getting done, seriously what's the problem?

Unless you live in Glasgow.....where you have a 0.0002% chance of not being stabbed. Actually...you never hear about the Glasgow knife statistics....mostly Londons....thats interesting isn't it. I suppose 7 million people are a lot if your main game is trying to generate fear!

Sorry...back on topic......the real reason is that people are selfish knuts.

Glasgow has, to my knowledge, the highest murder rate per capita in Europe.

It Smiles Better, but you may still need stiches.

dirk_van_gently

chuckcork wrote:

I think its not modern Britain, I think maybe its the British? ....

Yeh Think :?:

Take a look at thisl

Not just the British it would seem, Western lifestyle perhaps :?:

victor ludorum

chuckcork wrote:

Yes, but Mark Hammon is a car driver on a bike, which is not a great advertisement for cycling at all. A fit experienced urban cyclist, would even with obeying all road traffic laws (as we all of course do) probably leave him for dead, and be a lot safer in the bargain.

Despite his increasingly hysterical yelps as the ride went on, I didn't spot any drivers behaving inconsiderately around him (I suppose the presence of a camera car might have kept them on best behaviour), but he was behaving very selfishly. This might have been subliminal messaging on the part of the Top Gear team ('see, even when they aren't actually breaking the law, cyclists are outlaw scum') or it could just be that Hammond was mimicking cyclists as he, as a driver, sees them.

The point is that no matter how crap Hammond's cycling was, he wasn't doing anything you or I don't see a thousand times a fortnight.

Like the guy on the battered hybrid in a skateboard helmet who undertook me as I was letting a bus pull out and cut between the bus and the pavement. Evidently without realising that the reason for the bus's wide manoeuvre was that there was another bus immediately in front which it was pulling round. There was a painful inevitability to the sudden squeal of his brakes as he avoided slamming into the back of the parked bus, the sudden stop of the moving bus as he swerved in front of it, then him left standing there like a plum as the bus pulled away. And then, rather than wait for me to pass, he waddled forward straddling the bike, stomped on a pedal, slipped off and was left hanging over the handlebars.

That's a fairly gross example, but there are lots of smaller ones. Cyclist's overtaking standing traffic on the inside, squeezing alongside a car that's too close to the curb to get past and then stopping in such a position that neither the car nor the bike can move.

All of these little idiocies just add to the tension. They don't really advance anyone's journey (certainly not compared to the risk they represent) and just compound the belief that cyclist = arrogant tosser.

victor ludorum

Dirk Van Gently wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

I think its not modern Britain, I think maybe its the British? ....

Yeh Think :?:

Take a look at thisl

Not just the British it would seem, Western lifestyle perhaps :?:

That isn't necessarily a solely Western vice...

People individually can be quite clever, people in crowds are always stupid.
Although I think somebody on the thread has already pointed that out...

cee

Always Tyred wrote:

cee wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

cee.. what about the kinfe crime epidemic in london a whole 14 people out of 7 millions have been stabbed and now you can shank someone on facebook... the countries going to hell in a handbasket....

going on the above about knife crime.... you have a 0.0002% chance of getting done, seriously what's the problem?

Unless you live in Glasgow.....where you have a 0.0002% chance of not being stabbed. Actually...you never hear about the Glasgow knife statistics....mostly Londons....thats interesting isn't it. I suppose 7 million people are a lot if your main game is trying to generate fear!

Sorry...back on topic......the real reason is that people are selfish knuts.

Glasgow has, to my knowledge, the highest murder rate per capita in Europe.

It Smiles Better, but you may still need stiches.

Exaclty my point.....and as another aside, I think I know what your avatar is!

boybiker

I think that the answer is simply that there are an increasing number of people who are simply selfish thieving lying unwashed pikey scum who will go out of their way to fuck people over in whatever way they can and some of them happen to ride bikes as well.Nothing you can do about them other to tell them to get off the fucking pavement whenever you can.
We get a lot of pikey scum round our way and one of them tried to give chase on a gas pipe special after I shouted at him to stop weaving down the middle of the road at 5 mph when I was trying to get past him :roll:

victor ludorum

cee wrote:

Exaclty my point.....and as another aside, I think I know what your avatar is!

It's certainly a wake up call...

iainment

boybiker wrote:

I think that the answer is simply that there are an increasing number of people who are simply selfish thieving lying unwashed pikey scum who will go out of their way to fark people over in whatever way they can and some of them happen to ride bikes as well.Nothing you can do about them other to tell them to get off the ******* pavement whenever you can.
We get a lot of pikey scum round our way and one of them tried to give chase on a gas pipe special after I shouted at him to stop weaving down the middle of the road at 5 mph when I was trying to get past him :roll:

Why use racist abuse? Unless of course you are.

karl j

Dirk Van Gently wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

I think its not modern Britain, I think maybe its the British? ....

Yeh Think :?:

Take a look at thisl

Not just the British it would seem, Western lifestyle perhaps :?:

:?: That link doesn't work :?:

boybiker

Sorry if my post wasn't very PC but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Its very easy to be tolerant of low life scum until you have to deal with them every day.

iainment

boybiker wrote:

Sorry if my post wasn't very PC but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Its very easy to be tolerant of low life scum until you have to deal with them every day.

You're doing it again.

dirk_van_gently

I fixed the link in my original posting.

http://citycycling.co.uk/issue38/issue38page2.html

dirk_van_gently

iainment wrote:

boybiker wrote:

I think that the answer is simply that there are an increasing number of people who are simply selfish thieving lying unwashed pikey scum who will go out of their way to fark people over in whatever way they can and some of them happen to ride bikes as well.Nothing you can do about them other to tell them to get off the ******* pavement whenever you can.
We get a lot of pikey scum round our way and one of them tried to give chase on a gas pipe special after I shouted at him to stop weaving down the middle of the road at 5 mph when I was trying to get past him :roll:

Why use racist abuse? Unless of course you are.

So Pikeys are a Race now? and what are Scum, a subspecies ?

biondino

Dirk Van Gently wrote:

So Pikeys are a Race now?

Have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porajmos

I'm hoping you're just being ignorant rather than racist but you never know these days.

iainment

Dirk Van Gently wrote:

iainment wrote:

boybiker wrote:

I think that the answer is simply that there are an increasing number of people who are simply selfish thieving lying unwashed pikey scum who will go out of their way to fark people over in whatever way they can and some of them happen to ride bikes as well.Nothing you can do about them other to tell them to get off the ******* pavement whenever you can.
We get a lot of pikey scum round our way and one of them tried to give chase on a gas pipe special after I shouted at him to stop weaving down the middle of the road at 5 mph when I was trying to get past him :roll:

Why use racist abuse? Unless of course you are.

So Pikeys are a Race now? and what are Scum, a subspecies ?

There have been prosecutions for using pikey as racist abuse. The sense of the message did not need that word to be used.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.htm ... page_id=34

Actually in my experience the most selfish, thieving, lying people I come across tend to be suited city boys.

Bikerbaboon

iainment wrote:

boybiker wrote:

Sorry if my post wasn't very PC but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Its very easy to be tolerant of low life scum until you have to deal with them every day.

You're doing it again.

not quite sure how you are reading the post as raisist?
and bikerboy is makeing a great point........ thats how alot of car drivers see bikes

easy to tolarate will you have to deal with bike riding skum ( was that rasist against peoples religon that involves lycra ?)

also i apologise that this post is discrimitory against people that are blind or unable to read or dont have a pc or have acsess to the internet..........

iainment

Bikerbaboon wrote:

iainment wrote:

boybiker wrote:

Sorry if my post wasn't very PC but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Its very easy to be tolerant of low life scum until you have to deal with them every day.

You're doing it again.

not quite sure how you are reading the post as raisist?
and bikerboy is makeing a great point........ thats how alot of car drivers see bikes

easy to tolarate will you have to deal with bike riding skum ( was that rasist against peoples religon that involves lycra ?)

also i apologise that this post is discrimitory against people that are blind or unable to read or dont have a pc or have acsess to the internet..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#Spade

victor ludorum

boybiker wrote:

Sorry if my post wasn't very PC but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Its very easy to be tolerant of low life scum until you have to deal with them every day.

Hey, easy on my thread please.

Since the motivation for my original posting was frustration at the lack of consideration people seem to show each other, and how the culture of abnegating personal responsibility breeds a constant and unnecessary conflict on the road, your choice of language (unacceptable at the best of times) was exceptionally poor.

Many drivers, and a growing number of pedestrians, seem to be of the opinion that we (as cyclists) are scum simply by being on bikes. The assumption is that we are either arrogant car-hating tree-huggers, selfish red- light- jumping undertaking bus dodgers, or too poor to afford a 'proper' form of transport. Many drivers seem to think we are road parasites ('you don't even pay road tax!')

Many cyclists have equally hardened and unsympathetic attitudes towards other users of the roads and pavements (including other cyclists...)

It doesn't help.