fuel duty, hope this is okay to put on here

grahamfocal

Hi Guys hope you dont mind me putting this on here, I am lucky and cycle to work, but the price of fuel is silly, and even popping to the beach with my two kids is going to cost a months wages soon, so lets try and help people listen.
Its a government petition to reduce duty on fuel
As a shop says: "every little helps"

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Lowerduty30/

cheers all who read and sign

Eat My Dust

How about starting a petition for the oil companies to lower their profit margin. I would sign that. I still don't understand why everybody is targeting the government who need to raise money for everyone, and nobody seems to be the slightest bit bothered that BP etc make billions of pounds profit every year!

spen666

if the government lower fuel duty, then they will need to raise the lost revenue in another way

Perhaps a tax on cyclists?
Raise Income Tax?

beatsystem

i agree with eat my dust, the big corps are making huge profits as are supermarkets.
raise income tax for all but the poorest, get rid of road tax and tax fuel even more then those that use it pay for it those that use less pay less, that way we encourage people not to use their cars.If you have just paid £200-0 plus to tax your car your gonna want to use it!

redddraggon

grahamfocal wrote:

even popping to the beach with my two kids is going to cost a months wages soon

An unnecessary journey perhaps? I believe in reducing tax on fuel to commercial companies like haulage firms, but not to private individuals.

It seems quite strange to me that people are moaning about fuel costs, but still want to go on needless fuel wasting daytrips at the weekend. You could always cycle to the beach or use public transport.

Parkey

I find it amazing how so few people are making any effort to drive efficiently to save themselves money. It's a bit hypocritical to complain about fuel prices and then drive at 80-90mph on motorways or metres behind the car in front going gas-brake-gas-brake-gas-brake.

Smooth acceleration, cruising at 60mph and leaving a good braking distance so I very rarely have to brake, apart from at junctions, saves me a small fortune.

grahamfocal

redddraggon wrote:

grahamfocal wrote:

even popping to the beach with my two kids is going to cost a months wages soon

An unnecessary journey perhaps? I believe in reducing tax on fuel to commercial companies like haulage firms, but not to private individuals.

It seems quite strange to me that people are moaning about fuel costs, but still want to go on needless fuel wasting daytrips at the weekend. You could always cycle to the beach or use public transport.

you try getting on the bus to weymouth where i live. Its okay if you live in the city, and oh, by the way I have a 9week old baby, pretty sure she cannot cycle to the beach, how do I get a dog on my bike to, or in the bus. I just want to do simple things with my family and for it not to cost a fortune. They should tax fags and booze heavily, the luxury items that we really dont need.
Anyway I agree about the revenue, where will they get it from if they reduce the tax, and am all for the big guys reducing the profits. But those guys own the world and the goverment (bush controlled by the arabs, as they put in something like 16% of the funding for america) so its almost as pointless, ah well, maybe we will all revert back to living in small communities soon, and making and growing our own food and beer, sounds not so bad.

redddraggon

I don't live in a city, can get everywhere I want either by cycling, using the bus, or even walking.

If there's will there's a way - if you want use petrol to do it you can pay for it. It's not going to destroy your life if you don't go to the beach - why does a 9week old baby need to go to the beach anyway? This what I'm talking about - unnecessary journeys - why should you get petrol cheap for those?

gtvlusso

I don't think the government will ever go for anything that reduces tax revenue! if they did, we would get hit somewhere else!

Ultimately, the oil companies pay for exploration of a rapidly hard to find liquid and have to invest in new technologies to drill deeper and get to un-explored and remote places (a long with paying huge wages!). That comes at a cost - we pay more for the tax than we pay for the fuel I think (?)
The thing that gets me is Opec - the "Cartel" that controls production. If they upped production (which is something they have power over - they also have the power to throttle production to force higher prices) then we could potentially get a reduction in base oil cost - the oil producing nations cartel is not usually answerable to anyone.......well, no one questions them for fear of the tap turing off I guess! hence why the arab nations stock up on American military hardware!

I agree it is insane, there is a very small group of people getting bloody rich off current oil prices and it is in their interest to keep the price high and see how much we will tolerate before all out chaos and pandemonium ensues.

Glad I cycle everywhere....Car sits in the drive 90% of the time. Sold my Ducati motorbike due to fuel cost......gutting.

However, it is cheaper and easier to use my car than to use my local buses or trains still (paid £150 for a standard ticket to Paddington last week in rush hour - could have taken the car for £40)! And I can put the kids in with all their gear with no fuss, carry the dog, get garden stuff from B and Q...blah, blah, blah. And my friends/family live in the middle of nowhere - car journeyable in an hour, about 4 hours travel when I went by train and bus last time.

Please don't take this the wrong way RedDragon, but I think you have a narrow minded view: leisure and family time is an essential part of life and development and it is not always gonna be possible to cycle or walk - particularly with kids and pets! Or carrying heavy stuff, like new fencing panels or concrete!!!

Happy for you though, if you don't have any of these hassles!

beatsystem

i notice no one has made any comments on my idea about road tax etc is it that barmy!!

redddraggon

gtvlusso wrote:

Please don't take this the wrong way RedDragon, but I think you have a narrow minded view: leisure and family time is an essential part of life and development and it is not always gonna be possible to cycle or walk - particularly with kids and pets! Or carrying heavy stuff, like new fencing panels or concrete!!!

Happy for you though, if you don't have any of these hassles!

Why does family and leisure time have to be dominated by petrol burning though - that's my point. There's plenty of other stuff to without having to go out in a car.

B&Q deliver BTW, we just had loads of slabs delivered from them.

gtvlusso

Perhaps the government should spend less on military campaigns......

spen666

redddraggon wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Please don't take this the wrong way RedDragon, but I think you have a narrow minded view: leisure and family time is an essential part of life and development and it is not always gonna be possible to cycle or walk - particularly with kids and pets! Or carrying heavy stuff, like new fencing panels or concrete!!!

Happy for you though, if you don't have any of these hassles!

Why does family and leisure time have to be dominated by petrol burning though - that's my point. There's plenty of other stuff to without having to go out in a car.

B&Q deliver BTW, we just had loads of slabs delivered from them.

B&Q deliver?

By bike?

By other non petrol/diesel burning transport method

Hmmm - thought not- so increase in fuel costs increases the cost of goods you buy as well

redddraggon

gtvlusso wrote:

Perhaps the government should spend less on military campaigns......

I'd rather they paid soldiers more and equipped them better to be honest.

redddraggon

spen666 wrote:

B&Q deliver?

By bike?

By other non petrol/diesel burning transport method

Hmmm - thought not- so increase in fuel costs increases the cost of goods you buy as well

Perhaps if you actually read my posts:

redddraggon wrote:

I believe in reducing tax on fuel to commercial companies like haulage firms, but not to private individuals.

spen666

gtvlusso wrote:

...

However, it is cheaper and easier to use my car than to use my local buses or trains still (paid £150 for a standard ticket to Paddington last week in rush hour - could have taken the car for £40)! ....!

There is of course no cost in purchasing a car, repairing/maintaining it, taxing it or insuring it- you only have to pay fuel for a car?

spen666

redddraggon wrote:

spen666 wrote:

B&Q deliver?

By bike?

By other non petrol/diesel burning transport method

Hmmm - thought not- so increase in fuel costs increases the cost of goods you buy as well

Perhaps if you actually read my posts:

redddraggon wrote:

I believe in reducing tax on fuel to commercial companies like haulage firms, but not to private individuals.

so increasing fuel costs will not increase the price of goods then?

Or perhaps you are seeking to argue with something I am NOT saying.

gtvlusso

Family and leisure time is not dominated by petrol burning!! But I do like to see far off relatives and have a holiday or 2 - maybe camping or abroad. Seeing mates and meeting up without huge time taken for journeys (we only have limited time here after all!)

For some things in life, you cannot get around car ownership and some people are not physically able to use any other option.

B and Q would have to use fuel to deliver your slabs - as an example, but there is other stuff I may need to get whilst out that I simply cannot carry on a bike - or is simply too far to go and would take too much time for a simple task.

I rarely use my car, so in all reality I don't care very much! But I will defend it's flexibility and usefulness against public transport. You try handling 2 small kids on buses, bicycles on busy roads with all the kit that we carry for them - then get anywhere with any speed.

However, my wife trains 5 nights a week for a rowing club (Henley Womens Regatta on 20th June) and she is too knackered to cycle anywhere due to the high level of training - she is also out on Sat and Sun most of the day training. Her level of fitness is unbelievable, but even she cannot cycle home after training - she is knackered and just wants to get home quickly to see the kids and get food and sleep - hence car usage. Also holds down a lawyer job, long hours, but the pay is good!

Too many friends and too much to do in all reality - hence the burning of the precious liquid!! Socialising is my favourite passtime...and thats what it comes down to.....time!

gtvlusso

Very true Spen666 - yes, there are additional costs with a car (However, you can budget for this)

However, it is there and already accepted as the norm and owned so I guess I would only see the fuel and parking cost on a journey - bit short sighted really.

I think it would cost me less to run the car for a year and commute to London than buy a season ticket on the train to London - from Brizzle(?) But then again, I would not get a job back in London again!

I see the car as a leisure vehicle anyway, just to go and see friends/family, do stuff that is not possible on public transport due to time constraints and flexibility of travel + whatever I have to carry.

I don't think it is fair to say that leisure time is an uneccessary journey and perceived to be a waste of fuel - RedDragon, but ultimately, we all have differing agendas and lifestyles/lifechoices.

Annoys me that there are people where I work who drive in and live a mile away! I cycle about 36 miles each way at the moment to get here - bloody hurts!

grayo59

GTVLusso

You sold your Ducati due to fuel costs?

What planet are you on? Err, I mean, could you explain why please?

Cunobelin

For some things in life, you cannot get around car ownership and some people are not physically able to use any other option.

This is the biggest fallacy of all!

It is simply untrue.

The most vulnerable group is th eelderly where car ownership (or access) is less than 50%. this is also true in many urban areas.

In rural areas the same applies. Car ownership is misleading as the vehicle is normally parked at a place of work whilst the family manages with public transport and other options.

In a survey of British Households carried out in 2001showed that overall 30% of households have no access to a car at all! It is also the fact that those most likely are those on low incomes, women, the elderly, disabled people, children, and ethnic minorities. In inner London for instance the level of car ownership is less than 35%.

In fact the claim that anyone is "physically unable to manage other options is totally renounced by the low level of ownership in groups such as the disabled,and elderly.


There is no such thing as being "unable" to get round car ownership - simply a choice not to examine or use the options.

Squaggles

Am I in the right place ? Is this a cycling forum ?

squired

Most people in cities don't need cars as they could use other forms of transport. For example, I'm happy to walk from my home to the shops (20 minutes), or cycle, or take the bus. However, most of my friends see driving as the only viable option. As much as anything it is about time. They'd rather take the financial hit and be there in 5 minutes rather than 20.

Personally I think the most expensive form of transport is rail, which bothers me far more than the petrol issue with cars. Given how heavily the government apparently subsidise it I really don't think it is worthwhile. It would cost me £170 a month to get the train to work. As my brother and I both travel into London we are now talking £340 a month. That makes over £4000 per year!!! That is without whatever the Government contribution is towards my travel.

MattBlackBigBoysBMX

Parkey wrote:

I find it amazing how so few people are making any effort to drive efficiently to save themselves money. It's a bit hypocritical to complain about fuel prices and then drive at 80-90mph on motorways or metres behind the car in front going gas-brake-gas-brake-gas-brake.

Smooth acceleration, cruising at 60mph and leaving a good braking distance so I very rarely have to brake, apart from at junctions, saves me a small fortune.

I manage to save on motoring costs by buying pre 2001 second hand cars. Not only do I avoid paying £400+ for a new car in road tax (that's vehicle excise duty for the pedants), but I also save thousands of pounds in depreciation.
It's also more environmentally friendly; whether I'm in my 3 litre V6 S type Jaguar or driving the 5 litre V8 M5 BMW I can be safe in the knowledge that I am saving the energy and resources of having a new car built.

Parkey

redddraggon wrote:

I don't live in a city, can get everywhere I want either by cycling, using the bus, or even walking.

If there's will there's a way - if you want use petrol to do it you can pay for it. It's not going to destroy your life if you don't go to the beach - why does a 9week old baby need to go to the beach anyway? This what I'm talking about - unnecessary journeys - why should you get petrol cheap for those?

I think this is absolutely right. It's a heck of a lot easier to get around without a car than most people think it is.

grahamfocal

gtvlusso wrote:

I don't think the government will ever go for anything that reduces tax revenue! if they did, we would get hit somewhere else!

Ultimately, the oil companies pay for exploration of a rapidly hard to find liquid and have to invest in new technologies to drill deeper and get to un-explored and remote places (a long with paying huge wages!). That comes at a cost - we pay more for the tax than we pay for the fuel I think (?)
The thing that gets me is Opec - the "Cartel" that controls production. If they upped production (which is something they have power over - they also have the power to throttle production to force higher prices) then we could potentially get a reduction in base oil cost - the oil producing nations cartel is not usually answerable to anyone.......well, no one questions them for fear of the tap turing off I guess! hence why the arab nations stock up on American military hardware!

I agree it is insane, there is a very small group of people getting bloody rich off current oil prices and it is in their interest to keep the price high and see how much we will tolerate before all out chaos and pandemonium ensues.

Glad I cycle everywhere....Car sits in the drive 90% of the time. Sold my Ducati motorbike due to fuel cost......gutting.

However, it is cheaper and easier to use my car than to use my local buses or trains still (paid £150 for a standard ticket to Paddington last week in rush hour - could have taken the car for £40)! And I can put the kids in with all their gear with no fuss, carry the dog, get garden stuff from B and Q...blah, blah, blah. And my friends/family live in the middle of nowhere - car journeyable in an hour, about 4 hours travel when I went by train and bus last time.

Please don't take this the wrong way RedDragon, but I think you have a narrow minded view: leisure and family time is an essential part of life and development and it is not always gonna be possible to cycle or walk - particularly with kids and pets! Or carrying heavy stuff, like new fencing panels or concrete!!!

Happy for you though, if you don't have any of these hassles!

Absolutely agree, me and my family just want to enjoy life, just a little, we dont get out that much, but when we do it would be nice to be able to see the places that I did as a kid, and for it not to take a mortgage to do so. No where fancy, just pop to the New Forest, for my kids to enjoy running through the forest, playing, and growing, seeing something else other than my back garden. Yes its not "life dependant" (sorry Reddraggon) but its called developing and making the 9-5 seem worth something.
Otherwise we will end up like the film "EQUILIBRIUM" not the best film in the world, but it does make a point. Well atleast I have people taking, :? :?

Squaggles

You don't need a car to 'enjoy life' . In fact selling my car was one of the best decisions I have ever made .

gtvlusso

HI grey059 - Ducati 748 with termignoni race system - 60 miles to a tank around town, 90 miles to a tank on a run! And not the most comfortable ride......hopefully gsxr750 or 1000 on it's way soon though - my toy and my enjoyment (once a biker, always a biker I am afraid).

whyamihere

gtvlusso wrote:

However, it is cheaper and easier to use my car than to use my local buses or trains still (paid £150 for a standard ticket to Paddington last week in rush hour - could have taken the car for £40)!

On that point... How?

As a regular train user, that sounded very wrong, so I checked on the National Rail site. A Saver Return (which it shows as being valid for rush hour travel) was £49. The closest ticket I found to £150 was a First Class Saver...

Denny69

redddraggon wrote:

grahamfocal wrote:

even popping to the beach with my two kids is going to cost a months wages soon

An unnecessary journey perhaps?

It seems quite strange to me that people are moaning about fuel costs, but still want to go on needless fuel wasting daytrips at the weekend. You could always cycle to the beach or use public transport.

Will keep me in a job!!

gtvlusso

Hi Whyamihere,

I did not pre-book my tickets, just got them at the platform @ Parkway and got handed my ass too with costs (£150 approx in total with tube pass just done the expenses). My wife did the same journey last week - she paid £20 less than I did.....figure that one out!

Also paid for parking.....

I think the point is, I could have done the journey in more comfort (had to stand on return journey as far as Reading) in my car and used less initial cost - fuel, parking and so on.

I am a big advocate of public transport, but the costs are horrendous at the moment - glad I cycle 98% of the time. For people that don't cycle, I don't think there is much incentive to leave the car at home....a real shame.