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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    NitrousOxide wrote:
    https://m.facebook.com/315310545339960/posts/782935078577502/

    I think most of us would want the book thrown at the offenders, if we were the horse and rider and they were motor vehicles...

    What a bunch of Muppets!

    That horse stayed amazingly calm considering, could have done a lot of damage to itself, its rider and the muppets. Hopefully the horse has not been permanently traumatized when out on roads.

    Bloody hell! That is some A+ grade idiocy. Glad to see that it is being investigated and I would have thought not difficult to identify the culprits.

    yup - and nullify their results from the triathlon.

    I'm a sucker for cognitive bias, but seriously, triathletes, do they learn nothing about how to actually ride on a road?
    _
  • wolfsbane2k
    wolfsbane2k Posts: 3,056
    Slowbike wrote:
    The argument is that we already have a network of cyclepaths in Hampshire and West Sussex - they're called Roads ...

    What's needed is education, respect and enforcement of existing laws to make roads usable by everyone. Perhaps with a nationwide recognition that cyclists can use footpaths below a certain speed - with priority for the pedestrians. That would mean that cyclepaths are not required, road users would expect to see and know how to deal with other users on the road and we all can get on our way.

    Now I'll admit I do use one shared cyclepath on a weekly basis - it goes from our home to my sons pre-school - we ride there and back. The alternatives are shared cyclepath along path beside the road (shockingly bad surface and usually overgrown) or country A road - cars thundering past at 50-60mph whilst I'm towing a 3yo at ~10mph - no thanks - but I'm happy to ride that road myself.

    Getting into town by bike we have limited options - we can go down the shared path which is ok, but busy with pedestrians or we can go down that same A road with a "cycle path" that gives way at the slightest opportunity - if we were allowed to, we could ride the pavement all the way - which would be far more sensible IMHO.

    Education has been attempted for years. Its' failed, and now it's time to try something else with a proven track record; segregated cycle paths. Yes, there are roads that will not be able to fit a cycle path and motorised vehicular traffic down them, the answer is not "get rid of the cycle path", but needs to be considered in the wider sense of a network.
    I use both shared paths and roads, primarily because the shared paths get me lights that fail to detect that I exist...

    Anyway - Probably best to swing this over to the campaign subforum...
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    Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    NitrousOxide wrote:
    https://m.facebook.com/315310545339960/posts/782935078577502/

    I think most of us would want the book thrown at the offenders, if we were the horse and rider and they were motor vehicles...

    What a bunch of Muppets!

    That horse stayed amazingly calm considering, could have done a lot of damage to itself, its rider and the muppets. Hopefully the horse has not been permanently traumatized when out on roads.

    Bloody hell! That is some A+ grade idiocy. Glad to see that it is being investigated and I would have thought not difficult to identify the culprits.

    yup - and nullify their results from the triathlon.

    I'm a sucker for cognitive bias, but seriously, triathletes, do they learn nothing about how to actually ride on a road?

    Triathletes do seem a strange bunch. you have the serious sort who train on each of the elements including how to transition between them, you have those who just train for the run, ignoring the swim and cycling thinking they can't be too hard and you get those teams who each have their speciality.
    Fortunately I fall into the latter - and only do one per year - the rest of the time I'm road riding or TTing so know how to ride on the road. The last one I did saw some serious athletes - and those who were just in it for the fun (why?! it's an expensive way to spend a morning!) - some of the (I assume) fun riders were sat at a junction of a cyclepath waiting for a gap in the traffic - whereas I (on my way home) had already moved out into the traffic and carried on around the roundabout without stopping. I almost felt sorry for them - but having seen many doing the long distance at a plodder pace - seriously - not intent on pushing it - I can't help but wonder what they're racing for. Before you have a go - I know I'm not the fastest, but I target a time, I do push myself and am spent by the time I finish...
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I'm a sucker for cognitive bias, but seriously, some people, do they learn nothing about how to actually ride on a road?
    Fixed that for you :wink:

    That the idiots in this case were triathletes is somewhat irrelevant.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I'm a sucker for cognitive bias, but seriously, some people, do they learn nothing about how to actually ride on a road?
    Fixed that for you :wink:

    That the idiots in this case were triathletes is somewhat irrelevant.

    No there is a particular trait I'm biased to noticing for triathletes.

    Ride fast but without the associated road craft and common sense.

    Things like lots of half wheeling, deciding to ride on tri-bars whilst drafting, that kind of thing.
    _
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Slowbike, presumably those at plodder pace are doing it just in order that they can say that they have done it, no shame in that.

    You talk about pushing yourself, presumably wanting to beat your best time, sooner or later you're taking chances on a road that isn't closed, paying too much attention to your aero tuck and not enough attention to the road ahead, then before you know it you've undertaken a horse and clipped the stirrups.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    TimothyW wrote:
    Slowbike, presumably those at plodder pace are doing it just in order that they can say that they have done it, no shame in that.
    Yup - I guess so - just seems a bit alien to me ;)
    TimothyW wrote:
    You talk about pushing yourself, presumably wanting to beat your best time, sooner or later you're taking chances on a road that isn't closed, paying too much attention to your aero tuck and not enough attention to the road ahead, then before you know it you've undertaken a horse and clipped the stirrups.
    No. I TT on open roads and ride these roads enough, been caught at traffic lights and junctions with cars waiting for a gap - we also have plenty of horses around - whilst I may not always agree with the sensibility of their timing and their route, that's a thought I keep to myself. I do not wish to pass that close to a horse for my own safety - let alone that of the rider or the horse.
    Yes - I'm aiming to better my time - but it's got to be done safely.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Yeah, I mean, I'm assuming you're not a numpty and so don't sacrifice safety for a better time, but you can see my point that people pushing too hard and losing situational awareness are at fault here.

    I'm much rather ride an event with a load of people not trying hard than a load of people trying too hard.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I've known a few TTers time trialling heads down and into the back of cars before now. Stupidity isn't exclusive to triathletes. It's everywhere.

    God you must be dumb to ride that close and fast to a horse - and the undertaker should be taken away and shot.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    TimothyW wrote:
    Yeah, I mean, I'm assuming you're not a numpty and so don't sacrifice safety for a better time, but you can see my point that people pushing too hard and losing situational awareness are at fault here.

    I'm much rather ride an event with a load of people not trying hard than a load of people trying too hard.
    Yes - I know how hard it is to think when you're pushing it - but road positioning and overtaking isn't that hard even when you're pushing it. Normally I'd keep quiet on these things - but feel that even with my relatively limited experience, that it isn't unreasonable to expect TTers and Triathletes to respect other road users - especially the more vulnerable - whilst racing. You have to be aware enough to avoid other riders, potholes & navigate the course - how hard is it to give horses a lot of room.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    without the associated road craft and common sense.
    You don't think that describes all sort of cyclists, regardless whether tri-focused or not? Essentially what you're describing is a small subset of the overall group that is not actually representative of the whole. How many times do we see that, whether cyclists, drivers, pedestrians, etc?
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    TimothyW wrote:
    people pushing too hard and losing situational awareness are at fault here.
    I'm not sure that is true. I've been in races where faster riders have ridden too close to, and verbally abused slower riders for holding them up. You only do that when you're aware of your situation.
  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150
    Rant 1: An idiot rider, on a charity ride, switched off his brain in a roundabout and entered while there was another car coming from the right. This idiot rider only realised he wasn't in Majorca once inside the roundabout. Thankfully, the lady driving the red Volkswagen had seen him, and neither the car nor the idiot were going fast.

    That idiot was me :-(. Still feel bad about it. Raising the hand to admit guilt was all I could do.

    Rant 2: On that charity drive, on a single track unclassified road where cyclists and pedestrians had priority, a b**tard on a black vauxhall went flying past in opposite direction to the ride. I had to jump out of the road to avoid being hit, and even then it was close.

    Rant 3: Bus parked on a double yellow, on a T junction, with half the length of the bus blocking the junction.

    Rant 4: Car joins main road. Right in front, a bus is stopped taking passengers. Car decides to start overtaking without visibility, almost crashing into oncoming traffic. Which couldn't see her because of the bus, of course.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    without the associated road craft and common sense.
    You don't think that describes all sort of cyclists, regardless whether tri-focused or not? Essentially what you're describing is a small subset of the overall group that is not actually representative of the whole. How many times do we see that, whether cyclists, drivers, pedestrians, etc?

    Not at the speed tri guys go, no.
    _
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    without the associated road craft and common sense.
    You don't think that describes all sort of cyclists, regardless whether tri-focused or not? Essentially what you're describing is a small subset of the overall group that is not actually representative of the whole. How many times do we see that, whether cyclists, drivers, pedestrians, etc?

    Not at the speed tri guys go, no.
    So fast club riders in a chain gang never do this, right? Or the segment hunting weekend warrior? Or Pinarello commuter man, or fixie riding courier man (or woman, in either case, to be inclusive)? Or some other moronic subset of a larger group? And all triathletes are as bad as each other? You sound like an entitled car driver ranting about his right to be on the road at the expense of any other road user :roll:
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    without the associated road craft and common sense.
    You don't think that describes all sort of cyclists, regardless whether tri-focused or not? Essentially what you're describing is a small subset of the overall group that is not actually representative of the whole. How many times do we see that, whether cyclists, drivers, pedestrians, etc?

    Not at the speed tri guys go, no.

    Erm - some of them ride slower than you ... ;)
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    Slowbike wrote:
    Erm - some of them ride slower than you ... ;)
    My point exactly. Some will absolutely be guilty of what Rick mentions, most will not.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    without the associated road craft and common sense.
    You don't think that describes all sort of cyclists, regardless whether tri-focused or not? Essentially what you're describing is a small subset of the overall group that is not actually representative of the whole. How many times do we see that, whether cyclists, drivers, pedestrians, etc?

    Not at the speed tri guys go, no.
    So fast club riders in a chain gang never do this, right? Or the segment hunting weekend warrior? Or Pinarello commuter man, or fixie riding courier man (or woman, in either case, to be inclusive)? Or some other moronic subset of a larger group? And all triathletes are as bad as each other? You sound like an entitled car driver ranting about his right to be on the road at the expense of any other road user :roll:

    Look, if you read what I actually wrote, rather than what you think I wrote, you'll realise it's a little tongue in cheek.

    Think you need to relax. Or stop triathlon, if that's the background to the shrill response ;).
    _
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Look, if you read what I actually wrote, rather than what you think I wrote, you'll realise it's a little tongue in cheek.
    It doesn't come across like that. I'd be happy for you to explain which part of what you posted I missed that would have made me realise.
    Think you need to relax. Or stop triathlon, if that's the background to the shrill response ;).
    It's not supposed to be a shrill response. Just trying to point out that you appear to be blaming the many for the actions of the few in a forum dedicated to an activity where often many of participants are blamed for the transgressions of a few. Also, you seem unwilling to agree that it's highly likely to be a small subset of triathletes who fit your description.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    JoeNobody wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Look, if you read what I actually wrote, rather than what you think I wrote, you'll realise it's a little tongue in cheek.
    It doesn't come across like that. I'd be happy for you to explain which part of what you posted I missed that would have made me realise.
    Think you need to relax. Or stop triathlon, if that's the background to the shrill response ;).
    It's not supposed to be a shrill response. Just trying to point out that you appear to be blaming the many for the actions of the few in a forum dedicated to an activity where often many of participants are blamed for the transgressions of a few. Also, you seem unwilling to agree that it's highly likely to be a small subset of triathletes who fit your description.

    Here was the clue:
    I'm a sucker for cognitive bias,

    ;)

    Every day is a learning day, eh?
    _
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Here was the clue:
    Bit too subtle for me... (I'd say that says more about me than you though)
    Every day is a learning day, eh?
    thumbs-up-sign_1f44d.png
  • frogonabike
    frogonabike Posts: 157
    Well I'm glad that got resolved... tri guys (and gals) really can't ride though :lol:
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    frogonabike wrote:
    Well I'm glad that got resolved... tri guys (and gals) really can't ride though :lol:
    But to pedestrians and drivers it's just a cyclist. They don't know or care whether they are triathletes, kids on BMXs, a nodder or an experienced commuter. We're all just cyclists to them.
    Felt F1 2014
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    elbowloh wrote:
    frogonabike wrote:
    Well I'm glad that got resolved... tri guys (and gals) really can't ride though :lol:
    But to pedestrians and drivers it's just a cyclist. They don't know or care whether they are triathletes, kids on BMXs, a nodder or an experienced commuter. We're all just cyclists to them.

    Nah - most drivers and pedestrians know when it's a triathlete - they're soaking wet, sat up on the bike and have a number on an elasticated belt around their waste. Some have silly bottles with hose pipes strapped to the bars and most have 1/2 the chocolate isle taped to the top tube ... oh and they're going about 12mph ... ;)
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    Walked in Condor Cycles with the hope to get the rear wheel bearings serviced by Friday, got told they are booked up for the following three weeks. :shock: Is this the standard nowadays in Central London?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Yup.
    _
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,869
    vpnikolov wrote:
    ...got told they are booked up for the following three weeks. :shock: Is this the standard nowadays in Central London?
    You just need to plan a schedule of breakages and book it in accordingly.
    Suspect they'd get the right hump if people started booking in well in advance then cancelling the slot if they found it wasn't needed.
    Kinesis Pro6
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    vpnikolov wrote:
    Walked in Condor Cycles with the hope to get the rear wheel bearings serviced by Friday, got told they are booked up for the following three weeks. :shock: Is this the standard nowadays in Central London?

    At least they were honest with an approximate timescale - worse would be "yes - leave it with us" and then not get around to it for the next 3 weeks.
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    Serves me right for trying to get it serviced next to work. Almost wasted my whole lunch break ...

    It hasn't even been a week since I moved to SE from W and I already miss my LBS - walk in, say what the problem is, leave bike at shop (no appointment), collect following day good to go.
  • ricky_h-2
    ricky_h-2 Posts: 119
    Summer is always a disaster for getting repairs done but I can recommend Freddie at bikeclinique.com if you are based in South London/Surrey. He has a mobile van and does my road bikes and strips/rebuilds my full suspension moutain bikes. I have always been very impressed with the work done and he will usually fit you in as quickly as possible.

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