Your rants here.
Comments
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Has anyone ranted about close passes yet?0
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Exactly.awavey wrote:basically like a massive shared cycle path then, yeah no thanks Ill take my chances with the cars0 -
You should have seen the traffic in RP last bank holiday Monday. Worst I've ever seen. Many cars parked on the verge up the Ballet School Hill, so they could have a picnic or a walk.
It's a nature reserve, FGS, and nothing is done to control the volume of traffic in there. It's appalling.
I wouldn't suggest banning cars altogether, because they prevent people walking on the roads with their kids in prams (yes, that happens after the closed-road events have finished), and also keep other cyclists under a certain amount of control (you know, the cretins who pull wheelies and wobble all over the road, regardless of who is in front or behind them).
The Quietway was a shocking waste of money, and chocolate teapots are significantly more useful than Friends of RP. For all the concern about stopping people cycling in areas of scientific interest (which is fair enough), the bigger picture is being lost, because the square root of f*@k all is being done to reduce the volume of vehicle traffic and its associated pollution levels.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:Has anyone ranted about close passes yet?
You had one today too? I'm just about to report mine...
[edit] - and done.[/edit]0 -
Isn't that the conclusion of this whole thread after 797 pages?Veronese68 wrote:is fine if people don't act like selfish, entitled fucknuggets.
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As if the Saga of ordering a new Road bike on the 3rd of January and me still not getting it because the Italians don't apparently work to any normal timetable wasn't bad enough i've just been told that I can't have my choice of new commuter bike because there are no more 2018 models and they don't know when they will be getting the 2019 ones in!
Do they not realise it's only May? There is 7 months of 2018 left yet FFS!! And Because I wanted something quite specific I basically have no choice but to wait as the alternatives are either rubbish or I just plain don't like!
FCN 7
FCN 4
if you use irrational measures to measure me, expect me to behave irrationally to measure up0 -
Kind of.Slowbike wrote:Tangled Metal wrote:Has anyone ranted about close passes yet?
You had one today too? I'm just about to report mine...
[edit] - and done.[/edit]
A large van decided it couldn't get safely past so it sat outside my right hand side covering my rear wheel until a gap opened up then he drove past without moving out.
I really didn't understand his move. I mean he really didn't move out to pass so if he had just driven past me straight away he'd have done what he did anyway but without a minute of covering my rear wheel and making me nervous.
To clarify. Cars were passing him the other way while he was covering a quarter of so of my bike in a close position. Cars passed him OK but he was too close to me. He then just drove forward without moving out once the oncoming cars had a gap. Nothing about the road width changed so whether sat covering my rear wheel or driving straight past would not have seen him any closer to oncoming cars or any closer to me than when he eventually passed. The only effect of his actions was to kind of intimidate me by my knowing there was a large van sat close to me and slightly outside of me.
It was a silver van if the size of a large crafter or similar. One of the bigger types of vans you can get. So rather intimidating in some ways.
PS I don't get intimidated just mildly annoyed and uncomfortable due to knowing something big being driven by an idiot is close enough to kill me with a slight action.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:
Kind of.Slowbike wrote:Tangled Metal wrote:Has anyone ranted about close passes yet?
You had one today too? I'm just about to report mine...
[edit] - and done.[/edit]
A large van decided it couldn't get safely past so it sat outside my right hand side covering my rear wheel until a gap opened up then he drove past without moving out.
Lights, Camera, Action ... and report.
What else can we do - except continue to ask the authorities to educate the vehicle drivers better?
I showed the footage of this morning's pass to a colleague as I was in two minds - he said it looked too close to him and reviewing the footage it looks like it - country A road, pass at speed, wheels didn't go over the double white line in the middle - just waiting to see if the Police agree.
Like yours - plenty of space and waiting a second wouldn't have lost any time ...0 -
To be honest, in that situation of having a vehicle hovering that can't overtake, I'd be inclined to take primary and wave them back, with a little burst to position myself infront if required.
Force him to actually make the choice of overtaking properly or running you over, rather than letting him take the weasel approach.
Most people won't run you over, although I appreciate it is a possibility.0 -
Slowbike wrote:What else can we do - except continue to ask the authorities to educate the vehicle drivers better?
Do it again and again : Cycling and Walking Investment Strategy (CWIS) safety review: https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/CWIS-SAFETY/
Question 3: Training.
Graduated driving licences
Driving test to include bikeabilty level 3 as a precursor
Driving instructors to be named on outside of vehicles, as per taxis, preventing businesses from hiding behind privacy lines when asking for the name of a driving instructor so that you can make a formal complaint about them to the DVSA.
Circa 5 yearly driving retests, each one repeating bikeabilty level 3 testing.
Just a few ideas for starters
Or, just click here, fill in the form.
https://action.cyclinguk.org/page/23078 ... king.id=CPIntent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...0 -
THat sounds like a pre-cursor to a rant!Wolfsbane2k wrote:Driving instructors to be named on outside of vehicles, as per taxis, preventing businesses from hiding behind privacy lines when asking for the name of a driving instructor so that you can make a formal complaint about them to the DVSA.
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Not sure about the bikeability bit - some drivers don't know how to ride a bike, and some may be physically unable (yet still able to drive safely). If we insist drivers need experience of riding a bike in order to drive safely around bicycles, does that mean we should all go off and learn to ride horses, so that we can drive safely around them?Wolfsbane2k wrote:Circa 5 yearly driving retests, each one repeating bikeabilty level 3 testing.
Mandatory retests would be a great idea; they're mandatory in aviation (which, in some respects, is arguably less demanding than driving a car on busy roads). They would weed out incompetent drivers who fluked a pass on the eleventy-millionth attempt and then stopped learning, they would help drivers to spot bad habits that they'd developed since getting a licence, and would force elderly drivers to stop when they reach the stage that they're no longer safe. Retests could be funded by the drivers themselves, and the costs could be modest; possibly comparable with the cost of an MOT test. It would take a very brave politician to propose mandatory retests though: drivers believing themselves to be of above-average ability (the large majority) would view it as an unnecessary waste of time and money, and the rare few who actually know they're not great drivers would be too scared of failing.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Am I that obvious? :shock:Slowbike wrote:
THat sounds like a pre-cursor to a rant!Wolfsbane2k wrote:Driving instructors to be named on outside of vehicles, as per taxis, preventing businesses from hiding behind privacy lines when asking for the name of a driving instructor so that you can make a formal complaint about them to the DVSA.Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...0 -
TGOTB wrote:
Not sure about the bikeability bit - some drivers don't know how to ride a bike, and some may be physically unable (yet still able to drive safely). If we insist drivers need experience of riding a bike in order to drive safely around bicycles, does that mean we should all go off and learn to ride horses, so that we can drive safely around them? .Wolfsbane2k wrote:Circa 5 yearly driving retests, each one repeating bikeabilty level 3 testing.
Honestly, I think people should be taught to ride a cycle before they can drive. This would help weed out a lot of very people who can't pay attention to whats etc - I'd much rather that they didn't have control of a 2 tonne weapon.
And yes, there are some people who physically cannot bicycle; however moving this to "beyond the bicycle" / "wheels for wellbeing" (https://wheelsforwellbeing.org.uk/) really removes a very large number of barriers that people think exists.
In the Netherlands, everyone knows how to ride a bike before they drive a car, because they are taught to by their parents, so their road sense is generally a lot better. Here, we're too far gone down the path and need to kick start that mentality.
As to the horsists? No, because the bikeability should cover it.TGOTB wrote:Mandatory retests would be a great idea; they're mandatory in aviation (which, in some respects, is arguably less demanding than driving a car on busy roads). They would weed out incompetent drivers who fluked a pass on the eleventy-millionth attempt and then stopped learning, they would help drivers to spot bad habits that they'd developed since getting a licence, and would force elderly drivers to stop when they reach the stage that they're no longer safe. Retests could be funded by the drivers themselves, and the costs could be modest; possibly comparable with the cost of an MOT test. It would take a very brave politician to propose mandatory retests though: drivers believing themselves to be of above-average ability (the large majority) would view it as an unnecessary waste of time and money, and the rare few who actually know they're not great drivers would be too scared of failing.
Indeed.Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...0 -
Not really - driving (or even riding a bike) near horses requires plenty of additional measures that don't apply to cyclists. For instance the recommendation is to slow to 15mph when passing a horse (in either direction), which is normally unnecessary when passing a cyclist. Horses respond differently to unexpected sights and noises: overtake another cyclist on your bike without warning them, and (assuming you allow reasonable space) they won't be bat an eyelid, whereas a horse may go bonkers. Same applies to use of bell/horn. I've seen horses refuse to walk past a stationary car on the other side of the road because they didn't like the look of it.Wolfsbane2k wrote:As to the horsists? No, because the bikeability should cover it.
My point is, if we were all told that we should learn how to operate a horse before being allowed to ride/drive on the road, we'd think that was unnecessary and unreasonable, even though it would undoubtedly improve our understanding of how best to drive and ride near horses. That's exactly how most drivers will see compulsory cycle training.
I agree that it's useful - people who've grown up riding their bikes on the road will have much better situational awareness and understanding of the rules of the road, and many schools attempt to encourage this through bikeability training. However I don't think it should be mandatory, for the same reason I don't think horse riding should be mandatory.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:
Not really - driving (or even riding a bike) near horses requires plenty of additional measures that don't apply to cyclists. For instance the recommendation is to slow to 15mph when passing a horse (in either direction), which is normally unnecessary when passing a cyclist. Horses respond differently to unexpected sights and noises: overtake another cyclist on your bike without warning them, and (assuming you allow reasonable space) they won't be bat an eyelid, whereas a horse may go bonkers. Same applies to use of bell/horn. I've seen horses refuse to walk past a stationary car on the other side of the road because they didn't like the look of it.Wolfsbane2k wrote:As to the horsists? No, because the bikeability should cover it.
My point is, if we were all told that we should learn how to operate a horse before being allowed to ride/drive on the road, we'd think that was unnecessary and unreasonable, even though it would undoubtedly improve our understanding of how best to drive and ride near horses. That's exactly how most drivers will see compulsory cycle training.
I agree that it's useful - people who've grown up riding their bikes on the road will have much better situational awareness and understanding of the rules of the road, and many schools attempt to encourage this through bikeability training. However I don't think it should be mandatory, for the same reason I don't think horse riding should be mandatory.
But the government is trying to encourage us all to walk/cycle - not ride horses - there's not many that will ride a horse to work or to the shops - whereas the vast majority of us will have cycled at some point in our lives - for transport and pretty much all of us walk for exactly that. The issue is that quite a number of drivers seem to have forgotten that cyclists are not just obstacles in the road.
I think Bikeability or something similar should be compulsory in school - I had to pass a cycling proficiency test before I was allowed to park my bike at school (junior) - it was a little annoying as I could already ride my bike safely but I had to wait for the whole class to do the testing. Make it part of the school curriculum and encourage utility use of bikes from an early age.
As much as I'd hate to have a driving MOT for myself (like most of us - I believe I'm a pretty good driver) - I'm sure it'd help point out a few flaws in my driving skills. Perhaps the way to get it in, isn't via compulsory testing - but by incentives - reduced insurance cost being an obvious one.0 -
Perhaps you could soften complaints about driver retesting by grading the results, and extending the retest schedule in response to good scores (and perhaps bringing it forward in response to points on the license!)
If acing the test gave you ten years, say, whereas scraping through meant three years perhaps it might help reinforce and reward good habits?
Saw a fairly old lady with one eye bandaged up joining the road last night.... you can't help but think, is that safe?
Personally I can't see any real change happening until self driving cars become mainstream.0 -
One huge argument against re-testing is that it could deprive a person of their transport and cause "exceptional hardship" - not that it should be acceptable to drive badly, but if their job (or getting to it) relies on driving then removing that privilege - even for just a few months - is seen almost like a prison sentence.
The problem is, people regard driving as a right rather than a privilege and have based their whole lives around the mobility offered to them by having a vehicle (or 2).
I'm certainly reliant on a car - as is my wife - whilst I could rearrange my day & employment around not having a car at my disposal it would be practically impossible for my wife to do likewise.0 -
I think a lot of people see it that way. The question is: Do we think it's more important that drivers are competent enough to pass a basic driving test, or that people have the freedom to drive cars. If the latter, why bother having a driving test in the first place?Slowbike wrote:One huge argument against re-testing is that it could deprive a person of their transport and cause "exceptional hardship" - not that it should be acceptable to drive badly, but if their job (or getting to it) relies on driving then removing that privilege - even for just a few months - is seen almost like a prison sentence.
As I'm sure anyone who drives will know, passing your driving test doesn't mark the end of the learning process; it indicates that you've been judged competent enough to go out and continue the learning process without supervision. My driving has improved immeasurably since I scraped through my test (stalled three times), and I'm sure the vast majority of other drivers would say the same. Anyone who's seriously at risk of failing a retest after all the additional experience of driving round on their own should be a major worry!
I like the suggestion to link retests to insurance premiums sounds promising; anyone know whether passing an advanced driving test reduces your premiums, and if so how much? I should probably take one anyway, would be interesting to see what I learn...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Quite!TGOTB wrote:
I think a lot of people see it that way. The question is: Do we think it's more important that drivers are competent enough to pass a basic driving test, or that people have the freedom to drive cars. If the latter, why bother having a driving test in the first place?Slowbike wrote:One huge argument against re-testing is that it could deprive a person of their transport and cause "exceptional hardship" - not that it should be acceptable to drive badly, but if their job (or getting to it) relies on driving then removing that privilege - even for just a few months - is seen almost like a prison sentence.
I don't think they do - I think they believe that that's it - they are allowed to drive - end of ...TGOTB wrote:As I'm sure anyone who drives will know, passing your driving test doesn't mark the end of the learning process; it indicates that you've been judged competent enough to go out and continue the learning process without supervision. My driving has improved immeasurably since I scraped through my test (stalled three times), and I'm sure the vast majority of other drivers would say the same. Anyone who's seriously at risk of failing a retest after all the additional experience of driving round on their own should be a major worry!
The problem of a retest is that it'll only pick up on those areas the driver doesn't know they're bad at. Those who deliberately close pass will obviously drive to pass the test - and you can't guarantee all scenarios during the test - unless you use a simulator...0 -
This is going back 16/17 years, but when I passed there was something called Pass Plus which was an advanced driving test. And yes, this was said to reduce your premiums.
I don't see a problem with re-tests every so often. The argument above of depriving a person should be completely moot, safety should be the goal.
I know of an American girl who came over here and was able to drive on our roads with her licence. She confessed to us that in her home state or county the driving test amounted to driving up and down a single road.0 -
I remember that. A couple of people I know took it, but it didn't reduce their premiums, might have been because of who they went with for insurance.Dinyull wrote:This is going back 16/17 years, but when I passed there was something called Pass Plus which was an advanced driving test. And yes, this was said to reduce your premiums.
Book your MOT a month before it's due then you have time to take a couple of lessons and retake it before it runs out? (probably need to be more than 3 months unless waiting times have come down drastically since I passed).Dinyull wrote:I don't see a problem with re-tests every so often. The argument above of depriving a person should be completely moot, safety should be the goal.0 -
Ford's "Share the Road" approach
With support from Brake Charity and Team Sky.
Which included a ghost bike in the setup.Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...0 -
Getting driven into whilst waiting in the ASL at Parsons Green this morning. Massively irritating, and a Pringled rear wheel to boot. Fortunately there’s a brilliant little LBS right near there, ( Chelsea bikes, next to the Worlds End pub ) and the superstar in there had a 700c wheel, and sorted it out for me there and then. The guy that hit me was very apologetic, and his insurance should sort it.0
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Slowbike wrote:The problem of a retest is that it'll only pick up on those areas the driver doesn't know they're bad at. Those who deliberately close pass will obviously drive to pass the test - and you can't guarantee all scenarios during the test - unless you use a simulator...
exactly this, crap drivers arent crap because they dont possess the skills to drive properly and a retest would somehow just weed the bad apples out, its because in most cases they dont feel they have the need to drive properly because they can speed, close pass, literally do whatever they hell they want on the roads as the chances of the police ever catching them do it is on the exceedingly low scale.
I see it every day on two junctions I pass with traffic lights, every time the lights change to red, cars (and I do mean plural not just the one) jump the lights and its not because theyve all forgotten a red light means stop, its because as long as they dont hit anything nothing happens to them for doing it, Ive pointed out to the police they could fit cameras and theyd be paid for in a day, but they tell me its low priority, so nothing happens. plonk all those drivers on a re-test and I guarantee 100% will stop at a red light, and then the next day when they arent being retested, theyll go back choosing not to stop again.
and thats before you take account of there are something like 45 million drivers with licenses, if only 2% fail the retest thats nearly 1million drivers, now considering we already have an estimated at least 1million drivers on the roads who have no driving license at all, how many of those 1million do you think will just go, sod it Ill drive anyway, because chances of being caught are...its when you see stupid stats like there are something like 70,000 drivers, who have no license, yet have managed to get penalty points
the driving test or re-test, really isnt the problem here at all0 -
Milemuncher1 wrote:Getting driven into whilst waiting in the ASL at Parsons Green this morning. Massively irritating, and a Pringled rear wheel to boot. Fortunately there’s a brilliant little LBS right near there, ( Chelsea bikes, next to the Worlds End pub ) and the superstar in there had a 700c wheel, and sorted it out for me there and then. The guy that hit me was very apologetic, and his insurance should sort it.
Christ. How did he even manage that?0 -
Hanlon's Razor applies here - Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.awavey wrote:Slowbike wrote:The problem of a retest is that it'll only pick up on those areas the driver doesn't know they're bad at. Those who deliberately close pass will obviously drive to pass the test - and you can't guarantee all scenarios during the test - unless you use a simulator...
exactly this, crap drivers arent crap because they dont possess the skills to drive properly and a retest would somehow just weed the bad apples out, its because in most cases they dont feel they have the need to drive properly because they can speed, close pass, literally do whatever they hell they want on the roads as the chances of the police ever catching them do it is on the exceedingly low scale.
I see it every day on two junctions I pass with traffic lights, every time the lights change to red, cars (and I do mean plural not just the one) jump the lights and its not because theyve all forgotten a red light means stop, its because as long as they dont hit anything nothing happens to them for doing it, Ive pointed out to the police they could fit cameras and theyd be paid for in a day, but they tell me its low priority, so nothing happens. plonk all those drivers on a re-test and I guarantee 100% will stop at a red light, and then the next day when they arent being retested, theyll go back choosing not to stop again.
and thats before you take account of there are something like 45 million drivers with licenses, if only 2% fail the retest thats nearly 1million drivers, now considering we already have an estimated at least 1million drivers on the roads who have no driving license at all, how many of those 1million do you think will just go, sod it Ill drive anyway, because chances of being caught are...its when you see stupid stats like there are something like 70,000 drivers, who have no license, yet have managed to get penalty points
the driving test or re-test, really isnt the problem here at all
The vast majority of accidents I see and hear about are down to incompetence rather than intentional bad driving; people pulling out of side roads without looking; driving into the back of stationary vehicles and cyclists; my neighbour nearly knocked me off in a close pass, and once managed to destroy the entire front of her car whilst driving backwards, and she has so much junk on her dashboard and hanging from her rearview mirror that it's a wonder she can see out at all. Thing is, she's a nice and thoughtful person, she's just incompetent. We've all seen elderly people who shouldn't be behind the wheel any more; many of us have had elderly relatives whom we've struggled to persuade that they ought to think about getting rid of the car. These are the people for whom retests, and training to fill any competence gaps, would make a difference.
I used to have a housemate who was the scariest boy racer in the World; every trip in his car was another roll of the dice. Finally his mates persuaded him to go on an advanced driving course, and almost overnight he turned into the World's most boring driver. It can work.
Sure, there are aggressive and unpleasant drivers out there (from what I can see most of them drive for a living - cabs, white vans etc), and retests may not improve their driving, but an awful lot of the dangerous ones are merely incompetent. The aggressive ones will hit you and tell you you shouldn't have been there (I've had this with a black cab), the incompetent ones will apologise and tell them they didn't see you; how often do we hear that on this forum?Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Sgt.Pepper wrote:Milemuncher1 wrote:Getting driven into whilst waiting in the ASL at Parsons Green this morning. Massively irritating, and a Pringled rear wheel to boot. Fortunately there’s a brilliant little LBS right near there, ( Chelsea bikes, next to the Worlds End pub ) and the superstar in there had a 700c wheel, and sorted it out for me there and then. The guy that hit me was very apologetic, and his insurance should sort it.
Christ. How did he even manage that?
He came out of the side road just to the right, drove up
The bit of the bus lane until the bike lane to ASL section, the lights changed, I had a couple of riders in front of me taking off steadily, he put his foot down, and clattered into my rear wheel. Words were had, he’s only a young guy, and was shaking like a shitting dog, hopefully that’s a lesson learned. I did take pity on him though, and to avoid the multiple bollockings he was guaranteed to get from his boss / the five O, because it was all captured on CCTV, I did it through my insurance.0 -
Milemuncher1 wrote:Sgt.Pepper wrote:Milemuncher1 wrote:Getting driven into whilst waiting in the ASL at Parsons Green this morning. Massively irritating, and a Pringled rear wheel to boot. Fortunately there’s a brilliant little LBS right near there, ( Chelsea bikes, next to the Worlds End pub ) and the superstar in there had a 700c wheel, and sorted it out for me there and then. The guy that hit me was very apologetic, and his insurance should sort it.
Christ. How did he even manage that?
He came out of the side road just to the right, drove up
The bit of the bus lane until the bike lane to ASL section, the lights changed, I had a couple of riders in front of me taking off steadily, he put his foot down, and clattered into my rear wheel. Words were had, he’s only a young guy, and was shaking like a ******** dog, hopefully that’s a lesson learned. I did take pity on him though, and to avoid the multiple bollockings he was guaranteed to get from his boss / the five O, because it was all captured on CCTV, I did it through my insurance.
Sounds like you had a bit more patience than I would have. Glad you're alright.0
