Sportive cycling standard poor
Comments
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You get a lot of wannabe racers in sportives - some in club kit, some in Disco-replica kit, some in Assos.
You do get a number to stick on the front of your bike and they do publish finishing times, but they are run on open roads, with other traffic, pedestrians, horses, etc about and the normal rules of the road need to be followed.
I've seen a group of cyclists chain-ganging round a blind bend on a narrow country lane only to come face-to-face with a farmer in a Landrover towing a trailerful of sheep : he was forced to drive into the hedge to avoid them.
I was sworn at on another occasion when I 'got in another riders way' by stopping at a red traffic light at temporary roadworks in the middle of a country village and then several other riders went by before it changed to green - yes, it introduced a delay of, ooh 45 seconds, but you couldn't see the other end of the lights so couldn't tell if there was anything coming.
And I've nearly been taken-out by pillocks decending too fast down damp singletrack hillsides and then running wide into my path.
'Racing' in this way risks not only their necks (even that isn't OK as someone else has to clean-up the mess), but also my neck (which certainly isn't OK !) and that of other riders, but also risks the future of sportives.0 -
[/quote]Don't do any more sportives eh. Ass.
Sorry, did my comments call for personal abuse? I was concerned about overtaking riders not letting you know they were coming through on narrow roads, often taking risks.
I can handle my bike and those aroud me (e.g. on the usual club run) but as several correspondets on this have said, too many riders are unpredictable and unnecessarily add difficullties. I look after myself, its some of the others I worry about.
Hopefully no-one ever brings you off your bike. Perhaps you would then you might really have reason to be abusive.0 -
goodson wrote:The first few posts describe exactly the reason's for the demise of British club riding, elitism, dismissing anybody that does not conform to their standard, dropping newcomers off the back with a smug sense of satisfaction.
Shaving legs is what girls do and professional cyclists who are of a standard to justify it. The others have just succumbed to vanity & pier pressure.
Perhaps the club riders on sportives are only the ones who can't cut the mustard in a race anymore.
I will be doing my first sportive shortly & will point out potholes etc if I see them in time but blame nobody but myself if I hit one. There's a 9.5 hr time limit on the event and if its a good day I fully intend to enjoy the full 9.5
Spot on I agree - I ride sportives as I'm not fit or fast enough to RR yet without being shelled out after a couple of miles, and TTing is the only other option and as we all know that isn't a mass start event and therefore not as exciting (see thread in RACE forum).
Perosnally I use sportives for training for racing, primarily, but also "racing" in the same was as I would a TT - ultimately its up to me to get the best time I can. If that means riding in a group so be it, if not then thats the way it happens. I would rather be in a group of 4000 loonies on bikes than 3999 cars passing me.
Eventually the loonies will reallise that calling out obstacles and holding a line will in the long run benefit themselves as well as their mates around them, as every rider does when he or she starts out.0 -
Rocket science it aint. If you are worried about standards next time you are entered into a sportive make sure you set an example for others to learn by.0
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I'm not for a second gonna claim I'm the perfect cyclist, but I do my best to point things out to riders behind. Comfortable in a group, but am often trying to hang on the back rather than driving up the front.
Was in the Hampshire Hilly Hundred yesterday. Was cut up three times. Each time by a group of club riders. Half a dozen will ride past you, the first will give it a couple of yards before pulling in, the second less, then by the forth, you're in the gutter, on the brakes or making contact.
I get the feeling if contact was made, it would be my fault because I'm not wearing a club top???0 -
Geez you lot are scaring me ! I'm doing the Dragon Ride and in no way want a road race! Thought I was signing up for a fun day out with like minded people!0
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reading the above, it seems there might be difference here between club riders who are comfortable riding close together in a tight group, and those who aren't (might not be that easy to admit, but if you've never ridden regularly with a club the chances are you're not that comfortable doing this). club riders riding close to others can spook them, when in reality the club rider does know what he's doing.
club riders should maybe give people more room at sportifs unless they know they are comfortable riding in close formation0 -
kmahony wrote:I get the feeling if contact was made, it would be my fault because I'm not wearing a club top???
Nope, its their fault, if you are holding your position its up to them to safely overtake you.
Personally I'd just ride out in the road a bit more and make them go round you and not ride in the gutter or be intimidated by them.
Anybody cutting me up like is going to get a mouthfull I dont care who they are club jersey or not.0 -
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wildmoustache wrote:oooo-er !!!
:oops:
I just dont see any need to ride in such a way as to intimidate another rider of lesser skill or with no experience of riding in a group so that they feel ilke its there fault thats all.0 -
For me, there's a difference between those riding close and aggressive compared to those that just aren't paying attention.
There were only those few examples over the whole day, so generally the standard was good. I've only pointed them out as balance versus the OP. (nothing against clubs)0 -
Too black and white - club riders (=good riders) versus the rest (=bad).
There are bad riders who belong to a club and good riders who don't. The club riders that cut you up are the former, maybe new members who are desperate to keep up with their new gang and are prepared to sacrifice your safety for their position.
It's just like car drivers, most are actually OK but there's always some twat who only thinks about themselves.0 -
goodson wrote:The first few posts describe exactly the reason's for the demise of British club riding, elitism, dismissing anybody that does not conform to their standard, dropping newcomers off the back with a smug sense of satisfaction.
Shaving legs is what girls do and professional cyclists who are of a standard to justify it. The others have just succumbed to vanity & pier pressure.
Perhaps the club riders on sportives are only the ones who can't cut the mustard in a race anymore.
I do a bit of racing, I'm in a club - I'm even the road race sec which must make me the devil incarnate to someone like you, I ride sportives and I shave my legs during the racing season - each to their own - your post just shows that it isn't club riders with a monopoly on ignorance.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Oh blimey, we've created another rift in British cycling.0
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You might not be too far off the truth there - I'm a bit shocked there seems to be hostility towards club cyclists - after all aren't most of these events promoted by club cyclists ? Perhaps a few people are just a little put out at some of the early comments on the thread - I agree with the post that said it's not black and white - there are good riders from non club backgrounds and I know people who race who can't ride through and off for toffee because they can go through but they don't knock off the pace when they swing off.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
To Assos or not to Assos?
:P0 -
What would be handy would be if sportive organisers issued some guidance as part of their sites, or event notes or whatever. A kind of group riding for beginners to set expectation on what the signals are and that you're supposed to pass them back.0
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sloboy wrote:What would be handy would be if sportive organisers issued some guidance as part of their sites, or event notes or whatever. A kind of group riding for beginners to set expectation on what the signals are and that you're supposed to pass them back.
Oh for Goodness Sakes! Don't talk commonsense :shock:0 -
sloboy wrote:What would be handy would be if sportive organisers issued some guidance as part of their sites, or event notes or whatever. A kind of group riding for beginners to set expectation on what the signals are and that you're supposed to pass them back.
Agreed, that would be really useful.0 -
Well theres certainly some good points in this post and lots of crap
At the end of the day , if you ride a sportive it is your choice and it is on open roads generally so you obey the highway code and watch out for your owne saftey and take care not to cause problems to others.
You cannot blame some one infront if you hit a pot hole, they may not have seen it. If you do not want to take the riask, do not ride behind a wheel, simple.
I ride races, track and sportives and the standard is variable in races and sportives but on the track generally handling seems better probably due to the slighlty more dangerous nature of track riding.
I have seen crashes in races and sportives.
As for etiquette, it is polite to point out potholes where possible, road obstructions etc but not everyone knows about these so do not expect this, ride as you would normally, expect the unexpected.
I ride sportives at my pace and I may fly past people on descents and get passed on climbs, so whats the problem with that? I just happen to be better descending than climbing so do not see any reason why I should descend slowly to make some people happy, as long as I do it safely and do not casue danger to others.
As for through and off, this is generally done in short bursts where the road may be fast, or more often on hard stretches exposed to wind.
Through and off is not the same as club riding sharing pace, thropugh and off is same as you see in pro races where there is continious rotation of riders from the back to front, clockwise or counterclockwise, depending on wind direction.
Load sharing is like training where it is often two abreast and rider on front right does about half a mile on front, then moves in front of rider on left, with the rider behind him taking his place.
Then half a mile later this is repeated so he moves back one place in line on the left getting shelter.This is like slow changing through and off
This means each rider does about 1 mile on the front each and rotate safely, not like some groups I see where bothe front riders peel off letting next 2 through, I do not like this as your 4 abreast for a while.
You can ride an entire sportive like this if in a group and share the load.
If your that stressed about people riding on your wheel, do not ride sportives.
I just have a chat if some one is on my wheel, and generally most people are happy to try to work, but not often strong enough.
Some times when I am knackered I will tell some one if I am to knackered to go through.
In Eurpoe, there are generally more riders in events, and mostly more experienced group riders and you are expected to share work, but the nature of sportives are more competative though.
I am doing North Wales Fondo, Tour of Pembroke, and Dragon as prep for Marmotte so if anyone wishes to join me in a group, whether your wearing assos, shave your legs or not, willing to do through and off or not, member of a club or not, ride a pinarello prince or raliegh chopper, and enjoy a bit of fun and banter, then your welcome to join me
BTW I am probably not the best wheel to follow downhill 0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:You might not be too far off the truth there - I'm a bit shocked there seems to be hostility towards club cyclists - after all aren't most of these events promoted by club cyclists ? Perhaps a few people are just a little put out at some of the early comments on the thread - I agree with the post that said it's not black and white - there are good riders from non club backgrounds and I know people who race who can't ride through and off for toffee because they can go through but they don't knock off the pace when they swing off.
I was perhaps one of the first people tofoolishly mention 'club' in this thread which may have provoked the response and opened the proverbial can of worms. But I did say in my initial message that most non-club riders were good cyclists and I could not stress that more.
Tom, I would not be too disheartened by the negativity expressed in other messages. Many clubs are prospering because of the cyclosport generation. This is a credit to previously non-club cyclists who are joining the ranks of clubs and boosting their numbers. Sportives have also removed the over zealous nature of some clubs towards pure competitive activities such as tts or road races, thus broadening their horizons. But any one reading this, please don't think that I am suggesting non-club riders should join a club - each to their own, providing everyone enjoys their sport. (Think I am probably going a bit off thread here)0 -
wildmoustache wrote:reading the above, it seems there might be difference here between club riders who are comfortable riding close together in a tight group, and those who aren't (might not be that easy to admit, but if you've never ridden regularly with a club the chances are you're not that comfortable doing this). club riders riding close to others can spook them, when in reality the club rider does know what he's doing.
club riders should maybe give people more room at sportifs unless they know they are comfortable riding in close formation
correction. there seems to be a difference between club riders who can't see where they're going and the rest of us, who can.
(might not be easy to admit it, but if they spent a little less time clocking labels on other riders bibs, they'd be able to follow the road.)0 -
I'm fairly new to the sportive game, did my first last weekend, but if I'd read the first few posts of this thread beforehand I don't think I'd have bothered to turn up! Fortunately from subsequent threads it appears that actually, I'm not expected to know everything there is to know about group riding before I can be so lucky as to share the road with the great and the good of the sportive scene, and some people are willing to make small allowances for the new guys. The first few paragraphs of oldwelshie's post sum up what I think the unwritten rules of sportives should be - have regard for other riders, give warnings if you can (and always on fast descents), but ultimately you take responsibility for yourself. Riding a few inches from the back of someone else while doing 20mph plus is inherently dangerous, all the more so if you don't know them from Adam, so to moan if you come a cropper doing it seems a bit daft to me.
Oh, and it really gets on my nerves when people pass me on the climbs only for me to fly past them on the descents
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To be fair:
Sportives are brilliant:
100% of the riders are excellent 99.9% of the time?0 -
I think that the standard of riding on Sportives is improving, and that may be the problem.
On last year's Etape Caledonia, I achieved a time and a placing that had the eyes popping out of my head. This was largely down to being able to pick up chaingangs all the way round (and, yes, I did my share in the ones I could keep up with!) and this really benefited my overall speed.
Yesterday, I was only ten minutes slower overall (not much training time this year) but came nearly 700 places down the field, falling from the upper quartile to the lower one.
Try as I might, as each group came steaming past, I just couldn't get a hook. They were so much faster than me that I had to let them go.
I had a fantastic day, but it was altogether a different class of riding than I have been used to. If the gap widens any more between the likes of me and the "average" sportive rider, I'm bound to present an obstacle to the heads down brigade.0 -
There is definitely much more of a club presence in these events now than 3 years ago and without doubt some of the times have got better and better too. However the two aren't necessarily linked directly. As I said earlier and as others have since mentioned the two are self supporting - new riders entering sportives join or start clubs which do sportives together, established club riders join these clubs or get their clubs along to sportives and the standard improves. So the improvement is in part due to sportives being a few years old now and people improving with time and training, people joining clubs and improving, clubs getting more involved in sportives supplying a number of experienced and faster riders and so on.
However of course sportives encompass a broad cycling church and for every fast chaingang there are new people trying to finish a fiendishly difficult hilly 100 miles without bonking, cramping or needing a rescue.
I think the point about organisers supplying a guide to hand signals and other etiquette is probably a bridge too far. Learn this stuff at the events from more experienced riders and/or join a club. Everyone wins.
I've learned a lot over the last 3 years, the most important of which is that sportives don't get easier you just go faster for the same amount of pain................0 -
Just one more of the things you can learn by joining your local cycling club.
You really are missing out by not being in a club.
Yeah - you don't need to be in a club to ride your bike, or to enjoy it, but you will learn more by being with experienced bike riders who are in the same club.
Don't expect much advice from a stranger on a sportive, as he/she doesn't know you, but a colleague in a club will give you advice as they are keen to see you improve and pass on the knowledge you need to achieve that. They also want you to be able to ride safely in a group as they might be behind you when you crash!
Local club seem "snooty"? It's just that they are a bit shy - just like you!
Go out with them a couple of times and get to know them a bit.
Still not happy? try another club, they're all a bit different and have different attitudes and interests.
Mind how you go.
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The Cyclist's Training Manual Covers this ... on p65.
This would make a good article for the magazine; do they read this forum?0 -
Don't we all learn as we go along. I 'm a regular rider of sportives, and when I started I didn't have a clue about group etiquette. In the last 5 years or so, I've been a member of a club, but do most of my non sportive rides with an informal grouping from the local bike shop. I've learned about group riding from riding regularly in a group.
I think where this is possible, its one of the most useful bits of training you can do.
Some people may well not have the confidence or fitness to take a turn on the front, and personally if they want to sit on my wheel , they are welcome.
However, if someone wants to ride in a group, then I think there is a responsibility, to take a share of responsibility for the safety of others. Pointing out potholes etc, is an easy skill to learn. Staying off the brakes when in a bunch is more difficult but of vital importance. Having said that, I've never seen any incidents like this when on a sportive. Maybe I've been lucky.
Descending skills are another matter. Every year on events like the Fred Whitton, there are cases of people overcooking it on steep long descents. I don't know what the answer is to this, other than to urge some dgree of caution. The people affected often seem to be 'experienced ' riders. I suspect that it is difficult for a lot of people to practice these sorts of descents, if they are not fortunate enough to live in a hilly area.
Over all though, I don't think that riding standards are bad. In a group of up to 1000 people you are always likely to have the odd incident.
The club/ non club rider debate is a non starter. We are all cyclists. I am always heartened to see the new found enthusiasm generated by the growth in sportives.0 -
I came back to cycling a few years ago now and since then I've done a number of sportives, randonees and charity rides.
Because these rides aren't races, I ride as how I see fit, I'm not there to be told what to do by anyone else. I generally ride on my own but more often than not I'll joing up with 1 or 2 other riders who seem to be of the same ability. However it's not really my place to tell them that they should share the work at the front. Some people might want to, others not.
Unless I'm with someone I really know I'm not overly keen on getting close to other riders, but on certain rides I'll stay with someone who's slightly slower than me as meeting people is a great feature of these rides. Other times I may ride away but I'll only do that after letting the other riders know.
Cycling for me is about freedom, ride how you want to and don't force your own practices on other people and respect their views.
Dunedin0
