Sportive cycling standard poor
john_smith
Posts: 85
Has anyone else noticed the poor standard of bike control and signalling in cycle sportive rides. I was in a sportive today and was involved in a crash after someone in front of me hit a pot hole fell and took me with him. Wasn't his fault there were other people in front who didn't signal but simply avoided the hole. You could say it was just unlucky maybe they missed the hole we all miss the odd one. But a lot of the groups I was riding in were all similar and giving limited/no info about the conditions. Its weird I did a few sportives last year and thought standard were good and didn't notice the same problem, maybe just unlucky today. Anyone else had similar experiences?
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I try and find a group that contains people with club kit on as generally they are more likely to be experienced at riding in a group. It tends to be the weekend warriors in Assos kit whose only group riding is in sportive that you want to avoid.
I did the Etape du Dales today, some people haven't grasped the concept of through and off and sharing the work either.0 -
Unfortunately it seems the motto "every man for themselves" applies to some sportive riders. Some maybe don't know any better, but it can be very disconcerting when you are faced with an unexpected crater in the road or a load of gravel on a corner which no one with a clear view of the road has bothered to point out. Did the Etape du dales myself today, think there was a mixed bunch of riders today, some very courtious and helpful and some who were a danger to themselves and everyone around them. Like it's ben said above I try to get with a group of experienced riders who I feel safe riding with, if anyone seems dangerous and foolhardy , then I'd rather ride round on my own and get round in one piece.0
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I did the Castle 100 today at my own pace, sat in a few groups when I felt like it.
However the experienced riders should make some allowances for the inexperienced, especially in a Sportive, which after all isnt meant to be a race.
The amount of people passing then cutting in a bit hastily was shocking, puting the Fear of God into some people. When passing what ever happened to the shout "Passin on your left/right"The beer always wins0 -
It's almost as if not everyone has experience in riding in groups... but how can that be???
An utter disgrace isn't it.
I know: how about they introduce a cycling profiency test, so that you can take part in an event only if you've passed? Maybe fining those who don't point out potholes soon enough? Extra penalty points for hairy legs?
It's not as if it's not taught in schools is it. No excuse for such behaviour.cacbyname wrote:I did the Etape du Dales today, some people haven't grasped the concept of through and off and sharing the work either.0 -
Yeah and if they are wearing Assos kit then take their bikes off them0
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Sportives aren't races though.
If you ride so close to the rider in front that you cannot see the road ahead, then you do so at your own risk surely?0 -
cacbyname wrote:I try and find a group that contains people with club kit on as generally they are more likely to be experienced at riding in a group. It tends to be the weekend warriors in Assos kit whose only group riding is in sportive that you want to avoid.
I did the Etape du Dales today, some people haven't grasped the concept of through and off and sharing the work either.
For goodness sake man its not a race. The fact that some of us club riders make it one is OUR choice. The big appeal of sportives is that they eschew the closed secretive and evidently hostile world of the experienced club cyclist. Sorry, but this kind of view is exactly what sportives don't need in order to promote cycling amongst more and more people. Keep your thru and off for the Thursday night chain gang...0 -
Funniy reading this thread ... I'm in my 2nd stint of cycling, the first time round I was in a club, I rode TT's, Road & Circuit races as well as a bit of track ...and spend plenty of time group riding. That was all 18 years ago ...
Now I am I guess what some of you call a Weekend Warrior and I have some Assos kit; it's the above attitudes which puts me off getting involved in a club and these events ...0 -
Well I will continue to wear ASSOS, and WON'T be shaving my legs because it gives no indication of how good a rider I am, just the same as a shaven club rider. Take people as you find them not on what they ride or wear.
Ride on0 -
Riding in a group isn't racing its just the most efficient and enjoyable way of cycling on the road. Everyone in a sportive wants to do a good time and finish as least knackered as possible but it doesn't make it a race. But if you are going to ride behind someone its only fair to take your turn at the front, sitting at the back and not helping in a group is what they do in a race. I don't mind towing anyone for bit, somtimes a thank you is enough
And I think Assos make some of the best (and most expensive) gear around, only wish I could afford more of it.0 -
I've done 5 group rides now so my experience is very limited and I probably make mistakes on my way round. (I really do try not to get in anyones way though - signal if I'm going to pull over, look around me if I'm going to pull out etc) I haven't a clue what through and off means :? As big riders, me and my husband do find that people shelter behind us for a bit - no problem at all with that. Sometimes, we'll hide behind someone else for a bit and we have wondered to each other if we should go to the front but have hung back because we're not quite confident enough and unsure of the protocol. We're not trying to p!ss anyone off, we're just not quite in the swing of things yet. One thing we have picked up is that people shout "clear" at junctions if it's ok to ride on - we now do shout up if it's ok to go. However, at one junction my husband called out and was put down by a snotty rider telling him it wasn't necessary to do that. So, now I'm not even sure about doing that.0
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popette wrote:I haven't a clue what through and off means :?
A bit like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQ2K-0FugQ
Riders take turns at the front before having a rest in the slipstream.0 -
I'm club rider, race TT's and don't shave my legs or wear assos kit. Thru and off is not a prequisite for sportives, and if someone wants a free tow, then ride them off your wheel. Its NOT a race unless you make it one with other consenting riders!0
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Quite. You have to judge people as you find them out on the road. If they don't give you a shout for potholes or gravel a couple of times then you are probably best getting past them or if you can't dropping back. Or set an example so that they can learn by getting in front and giving them a range of hand signals.
What bike or kit someone has is immaterial. The important thing is that they are riding and enjoying it, so lets not start making it a snooty closed off world eh? If you are a club rider and don't like it, go and do some road races instead.0 -
+1 and then some.skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:What bike or kit someone has is immaterial. The important thing is that they are riding and enjoying it, so lets not start making it a snooty closed off world eh? If you are a club rider and don't like it, go and do some road races instead.0 -
popette wrote:One thing we have picked up is that people shout "clear" at junctions if it's ok to ride on - we now do shout up if it's ok to go. However, at one junction my husband called out and was put down by a snotty rider telling him it wasn't necessary to do that. So, now I'm not even sure about doing that.
As everywhere in life, you do meet some tossers. If you want to shout 'clear' and it may help others then do so, and feel free to shout something else at anyone who tries to put you down.
But to state the obvious, just always be 100% sure, that if you do shout Clear, that it is in fact safe.
Have fun, that's what it's supposed to be about.Why the name? Like the Hobbit I don't shave my legs0 -
skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:What bike or kit someone has is immaterial. The important thing is that they are riding and enjoying it, so lets not start making it a snooty closed off world eh? If you are a club rider and don't like it, go and do some road races instead.
Thanks for the advice. However I don't find road racing and sportives are mutually exclusive. And I don't expect the sportive to be a continuous series of through and off somehow involving all 600 starters. Needless to say I don't expect everyone on a sportive to be an accomplished rider and remember the E du D my first one was only 2 years ago so make allowances. But it doesn't exactly take long to realise it is the done thing to point out potholes when you are at the front of a group or to pass on the message when in the middle to the people behind. :roll:
And yes I have hairy legs (whatever that has to do with it) and own a disproportionate amount of Assos kit and a Trek but mercifully no Discovery kit to go with it 0 -
john_smith wrote:Has anyone else noticed the poor standard of bike control and signalling in cycle sportive rides. I was in a sportive today and was involved in a crash after someone in front of me hit a pot hole fell and took me with him. Wasn't his fault there were other people in front who didn't signal but simply avoided the hole. You could say it was just unlucky maybe they missed the hole we all miss the odd one. But a lot of the groups I was riding in were all similar and giving limited/no info about the conditions. Its weird I did a few sportives last year and thought standard were good and didn't notice the same problem, maybe just unlucky today. Anyone else had similar experiences?
You make a fairly good observation.
I rode the Cumberland Challenge last year, where the route and the professionalism of the event excelled, however the standard of riding amongst the participants did not! After witnessing four accidents and nearly being knocked off by other riders myself, I nearly gave up on sportive riding all together.
Here is the 'but'. Since then I have ridden a number of other events only to find that other cyclists have been fairly savvy. On the whole these events were dominated by experienced club cyclists used to riding in groups and following road craft etiquette. I do not wish to sound as though I am knocking non-club riders because I am not. Many are equally as capable but unfortunately there are some that are not.
So on the whole, I think that the problem tends to vary between events; some good and some bad. Lets just hope that the 'poor' riders observe and gain experience from the old crusties.0 -
redddraggon wrote:
A bit like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQ2K-0FugQ
Riders take turns at the front before having a rest in the slipstream.
The few times I have got involved in something similar (!?) to the above clip in a Sportive I've been confused with way it was done - it didn't seem very efficient. Seems there's 2 different approaches
(i) rider at the front does a turn, then comes off the front at a slightly slower pace and drops all the way to the back of the group (like a team pursuit on the track)
(ii) the group is 'rotating' and most simply put the rider at the back (or near the back) comes forward to the front and the guy who was at the front goes behind his wheel so is now 2nd from the front
The second option seems most common in a Sportive but least efficient. Does this happen because it's only those who are confident (or willing or able) enough to come to the front that will do so in this arrangement, but the former means everyone may face being at the front at some point?Why the name? Like the Hobbit I don't shave my legs0 -
Two things on the 'clear' point.......
1. Sportives might develop their own language and customs independently of road racing as they continue to grow and attract ever larger numbers of new riders. Road racing club riders don't have a monopoly on these things.
2. I only shout 'clear' if I'm absolutely sure, as the alternative is being responsible for a nasty accident. However it is helpful to avoid unclipping if you get a shout.
And...sportives are going to have a wide range of abilities on them - they are not subject to any entry requirements other than the interest to give it a go. Clubs all over the country are probably benefiting from riders new to the sport doing a sportive or two and then joining a club to get more out of the sport. I'm also pretty sure it's resulted in a lot of new clubs, built around sportive rides and riders that then get involved in other bits of the sport. This is ALL A GOOD THING. Pointing out potholes is easily addressed - give someone a bit of friendly advice, they'll welcome it if it improves their ride and safety.
It will be a sad old day if we all scoot round sportive courses snooting about Assos kit or carbon bikes or climbing ability, or whatever stupidity it is that isolates people in a self serving clique. We can all ride round looking stonily faced at a bit of tarmac 3 feet in front of the front wheel but it won't be as much fun as saying hello to people, enjoying riding a bike for the sake of it and accomplishing something for yourself in your own way.
Everyone should be encouraged and all achievement celebrated - this is the strength of sportives and any dilution of that will be a collective failure.0 -
Christopher L wrote:Riding in a group isn't racing its just the most efficient and enjoyable way of cycling on the road. Everyone in a sportive wants to do a good time and finish as least knackered as possible but it doesn't make it a race. But if you are going to ride behind someone its only fair to take your turn at the front, sitting at the back and not helping in a group is what they do in a race. I don't mind towing anyone for bit, somtimes a thank you is enough
And I think Assos make some of the best (and most expensive) gear around, only wish I could afford more of it.
well put (though I do want to finish knackered as I love the feeling).
yesterday I did the Hampshire Hilly (superb event by the way), and came in the top 10 finishers for what it's worth so was mixing it with some of the quicker riders.
while most people I came across were willing to do their bit at the front, one or weren't and would then ride away on hills (where obviously there is little or no benefit from drafting) only to be caught again on the flat.
I have in the past ticked people off for this, but was in too good a mood yesterday.
Everyone riding at a fast pace wants a decent time and you should only ride in a group if you are willing to take a fair pull. that said, the larger the group the more diluted this becomes ... in a group of say 40 riders you can get away without doing much if any work at all.0 -
The first few posts describe exactly the reason's for the demise of British club riding, elitism, dismissing anybody that does not conform to their standard, dropping newcomers off the back with a smug sense of satisfaction.
Shaving legs is what girls do and professional cyclists who are of a standard to justify it. The others have just succumbed to vanity & pier pressure.
Perhaps the club riders on sportives are only the ones who can't cut the mustard in a race anymore.
I will be doing my first sportive shortly & will point out potholes etc if I see them in time but blame nobody but myself if I hit one. There's a 9.5 hr time limit on the event and if its a good day I fully intend to enjoy the full 9.50 -
goodson wrote:
Perhaps the club riders on sportives are only the ones who can't cut the mustard in a race anymore.
I think that is probably true 0 -
Not having a dig, just a general question.
How are you supposed to know what is acceptable and what signs to use or what to look for when riding in a group if you dont belong to a club ?
I dont belong ot a club and the one local to me I have no intention of joining as they give the impression of being completely up their own backsides. So I've got no way of learning what signs to make or what proper "Etiquette" is ?
I konw about drafting and takinga turn in front and I fully intend to do my share I wouldnt sit and the back of a group and get towed along as to me that doesnt seem right...0 -
cacbyname wrote:skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:And I don't expect the sportive to be a continuous series of through and off somehow involving all 600 starters. :
LMAO at this.
A major reason why many club cyclists do sportifs is that they are probably less dangerous (at least at a lower level) than racing and involve more interesting routes and foreign excursions etc.0 -
wildmoustache wrote:cacbyname wrote:skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:And I don't expect the sportive to be a continuous series of through and off somehow involving all 600 starters. :
LMAO at this.
A major reason why many club cyclists do sportifs is that they are probably less dangerous (at least at a lower level) than racing and involve more interesting routes and foreign excursions etc.
Again, a very good observation and one that I personally agree with. After witnessing some horrific accidents in traditional road racing, sportives seemed the better option. Whilst sportives are undoubtadly safer, they do present themselves with new types of risks. Give me a sportive over an RR any day!0 -
Did the Etape du Dales yesterday, and I thought that the general standard of riding had declined
- Group riding; people don't push forward to take their workload, but also often the leaders do not seem to be prepared to drop back and make others take a turn as per a chain gang. I'm always prepared to take my turn, but I don't want to fight my way through a group to do it. Signalling was mixed.
I also noticed a substantial proportion of riders did not seem able to form in to a group and were aking life much harder by riding in one's and two's, albeit at similar paces.
- Descents: where do all the mad fools come from? I value my life, but if you don't respect your own, please respect mine. I noticed a lot of the demon descenders were soon passed on the flat or on the next climb. Also people should call out or cough or something when passing where possible (not always feasible on a descent).0 -
groups in sportives can be a bit risky... seem to find a 60:40 split in group riding and solo riding as either i get dropped from the group onthe first major hill :oops: or the group is going too slow and i pull away.... luck of the draw getting with riders at the same pace as you want to travel. One thing... have noticed the guys who overtake and then pull in sharply so you have to brake as their rear wheel is still overlapping my front...happend a couple of times on my last sportive. Overall prefer not to ride in a group as it's a bit unpredictable and not least tiring having to concentrate on the wheel in front for hour after hour. Tends to be a relief finding myself in 'no man's land' with still 100km to go, which seems to be the normal pattern
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Don't do any more sportives eh. Ass.Mossrider wrote:Did the Etape du Dales yesterday, and I thought that the general standard of riding had declined
- Group riding; people don't push forward to take their workload, but also often the leaders do not seem to be prepared to drop back and make others take a turn as per a chain gang. I'm always prepared to take my turn, but I don't want to fight my way through a group to do it. Signalling was mixed.
I also noticed a substantial proportion of riders did not seem able to form in to a group and were aking life much harder by riding in one's and two's, albeit at similar paces.
- Descents: where do all the mad fools come from? I value my life, but if you don't respect your own, please respect mine. I noticed a lot of the demon descenders were soon passed on the flat or on the next climb. Also people should call out or cough or something when passing where possible (not always feasible on a descent).
The instructor at the velodrome always says that the skillin being a good rider is to be able to adjust to fit the circumstances. So if you're worried that the rider in front might be a noob, then don't get 2" up behind him. If you don't feel you can trust shouts from other riders, then keep an eye out yourself. It's your responsibility to stay out of trouble.0 -
In my experience on these things there is such a range of ability that you are going to have to put up with these things. A lot of people might have made their aim for the day to get in a group, sit in save energy for the hills and get round quicker as a result.0
