The Giro
Comments
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Before we get carried away with Astana coming in, it sounds like someone is going out."Talks are underway with Astana regarding their possible participation in the Giro. Astana sent their request to us a month ago with a different approach regarding the quality of riders to take part in the race. If Astana were accepted it would of course affect the lineup of invited teams we announced on February 1."
Well that to me sounds like someone would be uninvited. They've already got 22 teams on board, so adding Astana would take it to a 207 rider field. According to CyclingWeekly Zomegan is currently working furiously behind the scenes and is expected to convince the tiny Italian NGC team to give up their place. . Sounds like some money may have to change hands there then. Part of me had wondered whether it would be Milram to get the boot now there's no Petacchi, but obviously not.0 -
To use Bruyneel's own words, Kloeden is flying and so it appears, judging by his past 2 days at Romandie. Tends to suggest Astana knew well in advance this was on the cards.
You don't exactly get to see Kloeden fly in the smaller races.
CONI and Contador is anyone's guess. What powers can they wield?
Contador's hayfever in May thing translates to the doctors can't get him up to speed in time. Besides, he's probably still weak from all that blood loss. :roll:
Leipheimer will probably make a quick withdrawel from the bank and fly as well.
Have to agree that the race that usually proves the best and most exciting Grand Tour of the year, will be reduced to a sea of Turquoise at it's head, quoshing any attacking aspirations.
Bum luck, having a Team TT first up.
I wonder if Levi looks pretty in pink?
"Talks are underway with Astana regarding their possible participation in the Giro. Astana sent their request to us a month ago with a different approach regarding the quality of riders to take part in the race. If Astana were accepted it would of course affect the lineup of invited teams we announced on February 1."
Not so sure it means anything more than 22 teams instead of 21. The only team on an unsecured invite were LPR, I believe. With Di Luca off the CONI hook, are they likely to kick the passed 2 active Giro winners out?
Then again, cycling startlists has FDJ named as team "others" and a right shower they are. Calling them second rate, would be a compliment. If the RCS are sticking to this quality team ethos, they could be sent packing, as indeed could CSC or EE, looking at their squads."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Contador's hayfever in May thing translates to the doctors can't get him up to speed in time. Besides, he's probably still weak from all that blood loss. :roll:
Yawn. So my other half suffers terrible hayfever and it's just started over the last few days. Suffering more than usual in May would be normal. Or is she just making up excuses?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:"Talks are underway with Astana regarding their possible participation in the Giro. Astana sent their request to us a month ago with a different approach regarding the quality of riders to take part in the race. If Astana were accepted it would of course affect the lineup of invited teams we announced on February 1."
Not so sure it means anything more than 22 teams instead of 21. The only team on an unsecured invite were LPR, I believe. With Di Luca off the CONI hook, are they likely to kick the passed 2 active Giro winners out?
Then again, cycling startlists has FDJ named as team "others" and a right shower they are.
They've already got 22 teams before allowing Astana to ride.
The reason Cycling Startlists has FDJ down as "others" is to do with a dispute between the website and the team. I think FDJ wanted money or some sort of acknowledgment for letting the website use their name, so CS began just putting "others". There used to be some sort of explanation on there, but I can't find it now.0 -
His last year at Liberty (2006)
3ª etapa (Leysin), 7º en 5ª etapa ( 20,4 km ITT) y 2º en general final del Tour de Romandia (erm....early May, I think)
- 8ª etapa (Ambri) Tour de Suisse (..........erm early June I think)
Won a stage at Romandie in May, the previous May, too. Now, I'm not sure how specific a time frame his "hayfever" emcompasses, but it must be a relatively small window. Grass, tree pollen? It's just that it's the same excuse Disco came up with for Savoldelli in the 2006 race, when he'd won it the year before. Conditions were wetter, so who knows?
If it is a "specific" allergy, wouldn't the ensuing conditions determine whether he suffers or not? For those, Astana will have to wait and see.
I think it's more about CONI, TUEs and maybe bluffing the RCS that he'll actually ride. He may start, but I don't think he'll hang around.
14º (a 1:47) en Campeonato de España ITT ( 36,7 km )
Put his ITT in too. I thought that it was interesting, considering his "remarkable" improvement. :roll:"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
GroupOfOne MkII wrote:
They've already got 22 teams before allowing Astana to ride.
The reason Cycling Startlists has FDJ down as "others" is to do with a dispute between the website and the team. I think FDJ wanted money or some sort of acknowledgment for letting the website use their name, so CS began just putting "others". There used to be some sort of explanation on there, but I can't find it now.
Yes, you are right. I remember them posting about this on their website. Silly me :oops:
23 teams are too many for safety, 207 riders, but it has been done.
So, who do you think is for the chop?
I can't see it being LPR, even though their wildcard was the unguarranteed one. Surely not "opt out" Liquigas? Must be a non-Italian squad.
Maybe they know something about these 23 riders under investigation, since they've all had to sign up to the passport system?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Does anyone think the Tour de France will do a u-turn and invite Astana on the back of this?0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:23 teams are too many for safety, 207 riders, but it has been done.
So, who do you think is for the chop?
I can't see it being LPR, even though their wildcard was the unguarranteed one. Surely not "opt out" Liquigas? Must be a non-Italian squad.
According to Cycling Weekly it's NGC Medical - OTC Doors who will be making way. They're the smallest (and arguably weakest) team in the race this year and Zomegan is expected to persuade them not to ride. Presumably in exchange for €€€0 -
iainf72 wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:Contador's hayfever in May thing translates to the doctors can't get him up to speed in time. Besides, he's probably still weak from all that blood loss. :roll:
Yawn. So my other half suffers terrible hayfever and it's just started over the last few days. Suffering more than usual in May would be normal. Or is she just making up excuses?
Are you sure she hasn't been down to the blood bank without your knowing? That 5 k Race For Life is coming up, the neighbour is clocking up the miles, the pressure's on. It's easy to see how it can all start...Le Blaireau (1)0 -
allaction wrote:Does anyone think the Tour de France will do a u-turn and invite Astana on the back of this?
In a word, no. That would involve a complete loss of face for ASO, and they won't do a u-turn like that.
As for Astana controlling the race, I'm not sure they will be able to. They obviously have the big names but I'm not sure the supporting cast is strong enough for that.I was only joking when I said
by rights you should be bludgeoned in your bed0 -
It's confirmed. NGC out and Astana are in:-
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Gir ... 55463.html"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Rominger used this hayfever condition in published interviews as the reason he could not perform in summers in late 80s, early 90s...but look at the guy come the start of the EPO era...hayfever cured. Nothing to do with dr Ferrari0
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Really too bad that NGC has to be kicked out but this is a PRO race. (Which of course is one of the things UCI was arguing about) I think Astana will put in the race of their lives but I think with a very, very tough race like the Giro, it's premature to concede victory to them. All those mountains (including the brutal mountain TT with 20% gradients) are going to knock some people around. Anyone can have a bad day and if it comes on stage 20, you're done.
Astana will be the strongest team, but anyone remember TDF 2006? One of the weakest teams by far was Phonak.0 -
Been away and come back to the news that Astana are in for the Giro...........Brill. I'm all interested again!
BTW Klodi's comment on Eurosport caused smile:-
Asked if he now expected his team to be recalled for the Tour de France, he said: "Well, to be honest, after winning Romandie, if I ride the Giro and the Tour of Switzerland which is another objective, I'm afraid I'd be a little knackered for the Tour
Screw you ASO? 8)0 -
And I was scoffed at when I suggested NGC were not ready for a Grand Tour. The way I understood it was that they agreed with RCS that they were not ready, and so were not really kicked out. How much of that is really true, we'll probably never know, of course. From the point of view of the race organizer trying to maximize his event, this can only be a good decision.
Can't wait to see what the little $#!* Ricco will have to say about this. Well, not really, come to think of it...0 -
everyone is ready for a grand tour if you have a good enough doping program.
NGC are about the calibre of Agritubel if you take away Moreau Vogondy Feillu and Mercado.0 -
forearms Van Petegem wrote:everyone is ready for a grand tour if you have a good enough doping program.
NGC are about the calibre of Agritubel if you take away Moreau Vogondy Feillu and Mercado.
Does Mercado still ride for Agritubel? I have had a look on wikipedia but i cant see him in the team list. Also, websites i have found with his details on havent shwon any team for this year.0 -
I see that some people are made happy by the fact that a small, youthful team are kicked out to accommodate their heroes. Would be nice if same folk showed a bit of sympathy for those young riders who's dreams are now in tatters, to enable this to happen.
I don't much like Bruyneel and his new "clean team", but hey, he offered to let the big 3 ride and that was the RCS's complaint in the first place. Argument over.
However, any fanboys should remember, unlike the ASO dispute, Astana's original ommission from the Giro, was purely a product of Discovery's overriding Tour ambitions.
Spare a thought also, for Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom, who unlike Astana, haven't got big names in their squad and so, remain on the sidelines.
But, I suspect, as with NGC, it's a case of who cares?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:However, any fanboys should remember, unlike the ASO dispute, Astana's original ommission from the Giro, was purely a product of Discovery's overriding Tour ambitions.
Except that Discovery won the Giro in 05, didn't they?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:However, any fanboys should remember, unlike the ASO dispute, Astana's original ommission from the Giro, was purely a product of Discovery's overriding Tour ambitions.
Except that Discovery won the Giro in 05, didn't they?
Yes, with Savoldelli and.......????..... I remember now, on the Colle de Finestre and up to Sestrieres, it was Wim van Huffel and Mo Ardila! :roll:
(bit different to Europsport, here, no? ) "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:
Yes, with Savoldelli and.......????..... I remember now, on the Colle de Finestre and up to Sestrieres, it was Wim van Huffel and Mo Ardila! :roll:
(bit different to Europsport, here, no? )
The thing is, aside from Basso which riders who might have been capable of winning the Tour have attempted to win the Giro in recent years. No one so it's not fair to single out Bruyneels squads as being too single minded.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I think the problem is that RCS saw them as too single minded towards the Tour (regardless of other teams, or whether they actually were), and then took exception when Astana said Brajkovic (is he officially a missing person yet?) would be their leader in '08, rather than sparing one of their 'stars' (Contador/Kloden/Levi) to ride it, even as a warm up for the Tour.0
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iainf72 wrote:The thing is, aside from Basso which riders who might have been capable of winning the Tour have attempted to win the Giro in recent years. No one so it's not fair to single out Bruyneels squads as being too single minded.
Well, since Lance won 7 Tours in a row, but never rode the Giro, this question tends to answer itself. :? I'm afraid the root cause must lie with him.
Basso, in 2006 would have loved to try for the double. Pantani in 1998 did. So that's bookmarked the Armstrong era. How far do we go back? Indurain 1993, Hinault?
USPS opted not to ride at all, on several occasions, admittedly, as did others. All before the Pro Tour.
Other than Savoldelli, I think only Tom Danielson was considered noteworthy, since.
Interesting that Carlos Sastre managed to ride all 3, in Basso's year, two of them well.
Gilberto Simoni tried it, the other way around in 2003/04, but had Armstrong to contend with.
In anycase, your argument is mute. The RCS, free of the PT shackles, made their reasons clear and had every right to do so. Astana weren't singled out. Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom were not invited for the same reason. Funny how nobody got upset, when they were omitted. It's not been an ASO orchestrated conspiracy.
The fact they have now been invited, supports this. Very fair of the RCS, I'd say, at least in terms of Astana, not so sure about little NGC......"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:I see that some people are made happy by the fact that a small, youthful team are kicked out to accommodate their heroes. Would be nice if same folk showed a bit of sympathy for those young riders who's dreams are now in tatters, to enable this to happen.
I don't much like Bruyneel and his new "clean team", but hey, he offered to let the big 3 ride and that was the RCS's complaint in the first place. Argument over.
However, any fanboys should remember, unlike the ASO dispute, Astana's original ommission from the Giro, was purely a product of Discovery's overriding Tour ambitions.
Spare a thought also, for Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom, who unlike Astana, haven't got big names in their squad and so, remain on the sidelines.
But, I suspect, as with NGC, it's a case of who cares?
But shouldn't a Grand Tour be for the top teams, not youthful teams looking to get their feet wet? This "setback" should inspire the young riders on that team to move up.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Well, since Lance won 7 Tours in a row, but never rode the Giro, this question tends to answer itself. :? I'm afraid the root cause must lie with him.
Basso, in 2006 would have loved to try for the double. Pantani in 1998 did. So that's bookmarked the Armstrong era. How far do we go back? Indurain 1993, Hinault?
USPS opted not to ride at all, on several occasions, admittedly, as did others. All before the Pro Tour.
But if you could win one grand tour a year, which one would you choose? Is anyone you'd expect to challenge for this years Tour doing the Giro? Armstrong probably only had enough in him to win the one race.
Astana's problem this year may have stemmed from the lack of Italians on the squad. Last year they had Savoldelli and Eddy M, but this year no one like that.
Doesn't matter, as you say. RCS could invite whoever they liked. And if they can get a winner of a Tour and 2 other who've done top 3 rides well they should go for it.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Spare a thought also, for Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom, who unlike Astana, haven't got big names in their squad and so, remain on the sidelines.
But, I suspect, as with NGC, it's a case of who cares?
I personally won't. Those teams have made it quite clear in the last few years that the Coupe de France races are immensely more important to them than the Giro. I will spare a thought for Garzelli, though...0 -
drenkrom wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:Spare a thought also, for Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom, who unlike Astana, haven't got big names in their squad and so, remain on the sidelines.
But, I suspect, as with NGC, it's a case of who cares?
I personally won't. Those teams have made it quite clear in the last few years that the Coupe de France races are immensely more important to them than the Giro. I will spare a thought for Garzelli, though...
I know I'm only fanning flames here, but isn't that exactly what Armstrong did? :?
As Iain says, no brainer, the TDF is the GT of choice, but the reason remains the same. He (Armstrong) didn't race the Giro-ever, Giro organisers had to get out of the PT before they could show how they felt.
I'll say one thing. RCS and Unipublic should be more grateful towards the UCI and it's Pro Tour. Prior to it's inception, they couldn't afford to get pickie.
Still, they are in, that's all that matters.
Now, all they have to do is, decide on the team leader. Will it really be Kloeden? Can Levi stand to play second fiddle, yet again? Has Bertie got over his major dental work, in time to fly in the high mountains? Or will Valdimir Gusev surprise us all? "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I think what will also make this an exciting GT is that no one knows what shape Contador is in or even Levi (and if Kloeden can recover in less than a week for a three week tour). Contador was on vacation/holiday, so he might end up being a non-factor pretty quickly if they can put pressure on him early in the second week. But you never know.0
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But the problem for cycling, like it is for the World Cup, that if you do not allow the small teams to ride at the highest level, how will they ever improve?
However, if you think that Astana only knew 1 week ago then, I'm sorry, you are easily fooled - they were confident in March that they would ride the Giro because they knew all they had to do was send the star names and they would be re-invited and that became a very good option once ASO said 'no' to the Tour.
I expect we will find that Contador is unbeatable form - I wonder if he informed the UCI of his whereabouts on his holiday? But he is protected by Spanish Government and Mr McQuaid so I expect he can do as he pleases.0 -
micron wrote:I expect we will find that Contador is unbeatable form - I wonder if he informed the UCI of his whereabouts on his holiday? But he is protected by Spanish Government and Mr McQuaid so I expect he can do as he pleases.
I'm sure he did, holidays go on the form. They knew how to find Kashechkin because he had filled his form with the hotel that he stayed in on holiday.
Also small teams can qualify for the World Cup, but they have to be the best to get to the finals.0
