Police cycle training must be useless!

CraigXXL

Mayhemwmb wrote:

Any way to get back on 'topic', YES my work cycle training was crap!!! I was told to not cycle into immovable objects - as it might cause injury!!! We sat in a class room for about 20 minutes whilst some non cyclist talked about safety? Then we were given a requisition form and ordered our cycle specific equipment!!!

You make it sound like Bike Sqaud http://www.tvscoop.tv/2008/01/tv_review_bike.html that was on TV early this year. I hope they make a serious out of it, it was quite entertaining.

Mithras

Mayhemwmb wrote:

Any way to get back on 'topic', YES my work cycle training was crap!!! I was told to not cycle into immovable objects - as it might cause injury!!! We sat in a class room for about 20 minutes whilst some non cyclist talked about safety? Then we were given a requisition form and ordered our cycle specific equipment!!!

Sounds as if you're training was better than mine Mayhemwmb. Mine consisited of "Steve find a bike in the garage and if you want a helmet and gloves you need to get tehm from stores"
I've "jacked up" a course with Public Safety cycling and my boss's won't give me time off to do it! Still a few of our PCSO's are learning to become "bikeability" instructors. That should help teach us plod to ride down a flight of stairs,get off the bike whilst still doing mach 10 and safely putt cuffs on some pratt without injuring a. a member of public, b. the detained person, c. upsetting the sensibilities of the local population and being accused of police brutality and eventually getting to z. where the officer remains uninjured too.

el_presidente

Mayhemwmb wrote:

I read this thread with interest, I am CID, I work in a relatively poor town that was once part of the Northumberland Coal field, Regarding colleagues setting a bad example by poor road craft, riding on the path etc. I can't pass comment as I don't know what they are tasked with doing.
At work I use a bike on occasion during pro-active patrol during the night, invariably I am dressed in scruffy dark clothing, with no lights and no helmet. A bike is a fantastic tool for fighting crime, invariably you can cover 98% of town, get across parks, go down footpaths and catch up with people before they know I am there, however road traffic rules etc are generally disregarded. The reason for this - The criminals that commit burglaries, steal from cars etc pay no regard for these minor rules, sometimes to catch them you need to do the same to get near them.
I have recently done a week of this work, by the sixth night I spoke to a local criminal who didn't recognise me - he went on to tell me to be careful as the radgy CID were out on bikes complaining it was unfair as they were getting caught.
As a Police officer doing this I am taking a personal risk - if a member of the public saw me committing an offence, photgraphed it and sent it to my supervising officers I may get dealt with for the offence.
Should I fall off and injure myself without the compulsory helmet - I would be liable for my own injury as I went against the regulations. However there is no point in going out with the helmet on as every criminal would ping you from a mile off!!!!
The question I put to you,
1) Wear all the provided appropriate personal protective kit and stick to all the laws/rules and be as effective as a chocolate fire guard.
2) Compromise yourself and breach rules & regulations in order to do the job and catch the criminals??

My answer is the second, I didn't join the police for the petty small matters, I joined the police to help the good people and put the shite in prison.

Fantastic!! A maveric cop who doesn't play by the rules!!

do you drink too much to compensate for your failing marriage? I bet you could do so much more if it wasn't for those damn pen-pushers up at City Hall? And don't get me started on that asshole Chief who's always busting your hump, man. He makes me so mad..






(Only joking mate, I'm sure you are doing a top job & keep up the good work)

russmcp

CraigXXL wrote:

I wish I could say that his call was cancelled and that he had decided to go get something to eat but since the turnoff to the supermarket was only 20 yards past the lights then he must have made some very decisions after getting the message to cancel the call. This isn't an isolated incident as it has become a standard joke that if you want the police you'll either find them shopping or getting a takeaway due to the amount of times we see police officers doing this. To add insult to this some have lost the ability to park in one space in the car parks or the ability to queue like public.

If you think this is all exaggerated then come up to Leeds and see for yourself. I don't have any score to settle with the police, my criminal record extends as far as 3 points on my licence, I say as I see it.

Well Craig rather than moan on here, I suggest you photograph evidence with your camera phone of bad parking, cars parked outside takeaways and making a note of the date/time you see a police vehicle go on blue lights to the supermarkket then write to the Chief Constable with your evidence, then I guess they will take it serious.

Not that I doubt your words on here, but it's easy to assume the worst in people, especially a police officer. Would you assume the same if it was a paramedic? Probably not.

I agree there are some (and I mean a few) idiots who have managed to become an officer, however it is easy to tar all with the same brush. The majority of us work hard, on occassions 20 plus hours a day to get something done. We have to fight so much bureocracy it's very frustrating at times. And yes I do get frustrated that when I walk into a Subway to grab something quick to throw in me during a quick respite of calm I get a member of the public who shouts out "your on duty, I pay your wages you should be out there not eating". Nice to know that he was assuming I'm a lazy git, rather than knowing the truth that I had been running around like a blue arsed fly for 8 hours and was mentally and physically drained.

It's easy to assume. As an example I think all BMW drivers are pricks, however deep down in my heart of heart I know thats not the truth.

whyamihere

Mithras wrote:

I get back from holiday, a lovely week in holland successfully teaching my tow little lads the joys of two wheel mobility in a safe and clean environment, turn on my computer and immediately someone is having a go...........
In fairness, those police cyclists lucky enough to get cycle training from the International Police Mountain Bike Association (IPMBA) or the British Public Safety Cycling are well trained. Cambridgeshire Constabulary take note!!!!!
Police ride on pavements and go the wrong way up one way streets, RLJ (in an emergency) and ignore many other road traffic regulations because generally they have permission from the local authority to do so. This aids in patroling areas where they coudn't go otherwise and being able to make it too a location in the shortest time possible. Each officer has to be able to justify his actions at the time!
Now if an officer is not taking action on a road traffic offence it is very likely that he/she is either unsure or does not know what the offence is. Officers on cycles are not traffic officers they do not have this speacialist knowledge. If i was to stop someone for a minor offence and then have to wait for a traffic officer I could end up wasting an hour of everyones time. I don't say it is right, just that that is the way it is. With the resources available, priorities have to be made and some offences let go with a word of advice!
http://www.impba.org
http://www.bikesquad.org/index2.html

Sorry, wasn't trying to cause offence, and I made no mention of police officers breaking traffic laws, I understand that they may need to do so under certain circumstances. I was just raising the point that the training obviously gave no information about how officers should stay safe on the roads.

Mithras

Whyamihere,
It's ok, no offence caused, being a copper who rides a bike, i am fighting my constabulary to get the correct training and equipment to do the job. Unfortunately it seems to be a losing battle at the moment. Maybe one of the mags should do a piece on the PCS or IPMBA and the state of police training on bikes.
Steve

Gambatte

Mithras wrote:

Whyamihere,
It's ok, no offence caused, being a copper who rides a bike, i am fighting my constabulary to get the correct training and equipment to do the job. Unfortunately it seems to be a losing battle at the moment. Maybe one of the mags should do a piece on the PCS or IPMBA and the state of police training on bikes.
Steve

Especially in light of the PCSO getting killed last year?

Anonymous

I know a few local cop's on bikes over here and god bless 'em they have to deal with a lot of shite and to be honest over here what ever mean's it takes toget the scum bags of our streets i'm right be hind them and the MTB cops over here mainly carry Glock 9mm .

CraigXXL

Looks like they're lot of police officers on here who have taken offence at what I've written but if you read everything that I had said then you would have noticed that I have witnessed policing from both sides and have long time friends who are still serving. I did not say that ALL police ignore the laws when they think it doesn't apply to them but instead gave examples of what I had witnessed. I am not a Victor Meldrew complaining about everything but I do have a gripe about double standards.

Russmcp, I have complained (MOANED) twice before first time to the officer who went straight to the front of the queue who ignored me until I went outside then decided to inspect my car and when he couldn't find anything but instead wasted 30 minutes of my time. This was the same officer that had parked in two spaces at the local Tesco Express. Second time was in writing to report poor driving and double standards when a police officer continued through a set of lights when it had turned red whilst eating a sandwich causing the oncoming traffic to stop. I got a standard letter in reply stating to the incident will be looked into but nothing other than that. Less than two months later a similar incident was in the local paper with pictures of the offending police officer so my letter had little effect if any. So you can see why I am reluctant to complain to the police in the future when this is what I get in return.
Your comments on paramedics, simply I have not seen the same been done by them.
I do understand your comments on targets, paperwork and long hours but you can not assume that your time is any less valuable than anyone else's. I understand that you are not in a 9 to 5 job and calling at a fast food place or shop is requirement but I hope you would not be arrogant and go straight to the front of the queue.

My point through out all of this is that the police must be an example to the public at all times.

Mithras

Craig,
It's a nice idea but in reality as you do not know what that copper is up too at that particular moment he/she cannot be "an example to the public at all times".
I take your point that you have seen officers who are setting a bad example and there will always be those who do not portray the expected image but they generally are the exception and not the rule.
Everyone has priorities and expect the police to cover the one they think is most important. In a neighbouring patch to mine it's dog poo. In mine it's anti-social behaiviour and car crime. For you it is the errant motorist maybe, for the motorist in our cities it's the cyclists who ride without lights or RLJ, unfortunately the police can't deal with everything and at the end of the day are only human and will make similar errors of judgement to everybody else on this planet. Unfortunately our errors are available for everybody to complain about.

redvee

Saw 2 of these today. They had stopped a merc, or they were helping the merc as I saw a map being present during the time I passed. One was on the road, the other on the pavement. One rule..........

Mithras

redvee wrote:

Saw 2 of these today. They had stopped a merc, or they were helping the merc as I saw a map being present during the time I passed. One was on the road, the other on the pavement. One rule..........

You know what..bugger it. Think I shall stick to all the rules.
I will ride on the road at all times. (this means ridng a mile and a half to get to somewhere that is only 1/4 of a mile away down the footpath then I'll do that. Ok so I only get to deal with 4 jobs during the day instead of 10. That A grade call where somebody is being beaten senseless by another member of thier family or a nieghbour (hope t's not your partner), I will endeavour to stop at the red lights because I don't have blues and two's on my bike. Hey I could have been there in two minutes if I had ridden down the footpath and jumped that red light but I need to set the right example. Mind you, at least by staying on the road I won't have the hassle of stopping those kids with the screw drivers in thier pockets that are just about to find a little property to break into.....hope that's not your carbon fibre framed bike they have just walked out the garage/shed with. Nor will I chase said miscreant down that footpath, down the flight of stairs and under the underpass to catch them. I'll set off on my bike and do the 3 mile detour that it takes to cover said 200 yards......
And I will not ride down the path stopping too chat with the people I meet. If I don't talk to them I won't find out about the bloke outside the school with the camera and bag of sweets who keeps talking to all the little kids. Hey if I don't know about it then it's not a problem.
Most officers and PCSO's for that matter do break the rules, however the majority of them can justify what they do and why they do it. Belive me, if we get it wrong and can't justify our actions we are risking one hell of a lot. The brown smelly stuff rolls uphill gathering in volume and then comes straight back down towards us gathering velocity rapidly.

Or maybe most of you will support myself and other officers who do ride on the pavement, without lights etc. etc. to enabl to do our jobs for your benefit. It's not for mine, the less jobs I attend the less paper work I produce the more time I can spend riding my bike them more often I actually finish on time and see my wife and kids!
PS I still love you all even those who don't agree with my way of thinking!

Gambatte

Don't think theres a problem with footpaths etc when 'on a call'

I'm reading most of whats on here as (for example):

A PC not in a hurry to get anywhere, cycling slowly, riding on the pavement in the direction of traffic at their side.
At those sorts of speed either get on the road or get off the bike and become a ped?

CraigXXL

Gambatte wrote:

Don't think theres a problem with footpaths etc when 'on a call'

I'm reading most of whats on here as (for example):

A PC not in a hurry to get anywhere, cycling slowly, riding on the pavement in the direction of traffic at their side.
At those sorts of speed either get on the road or get off the bike and become a ped?

That is what I have tried to say.

No one has a problem with the police going about their business in response to an incident / pursuit of a suspect or to cover more ground i.e. cutting through parks. pedestrian areas or where trouble causers hang out etc.
What we can't validate is why one is on the path talking to another on the road obviously not responding to any incident. Going through red lights if they are not responding to an incident. How can you justify that?

Mithras, love you too even though we have different views. Now go and have some time with your family unless you are reading this at work in which case I'm not paying my taxes so you can surf the internet now go and ........

Mithras

Now we're getting somewhere. When on call...ie emergency. Everyone understands that.
Now as for riding down the pavement, generally I (thats the royal I and includes my colleagues) I am either attending a pre arranged job or patrolling my area. I will be doing this at a speed of a bout 4-6 miles an hour. Probaly not wise to be on the road at that speed. The public are more likely to stop you when on the pavement than when you are hurtling down the road. This is why we use bikes and not cars.... It's easier to see and hear whats around you (breaikng glass, cannabis, an argument etc.)
So if you happen to see a heavily bearded viking dressed as a copper around Peterborough, wearing a police uniform, riding a mountainbike on a pavement then say hello, I'm probably on the pavement!
As for on call...thats me 24/7 where ever I am whatever I'm doing.
PS say happy birthday to my daughter sarah who is 4 today.....I'm off to work.

Mayhemwmb

Just to add my bit,
Most people in the community I work in want to see cops on patrol and the big complaint now is that they don't want to see them in cars, there is very little interaction between a cop in a patrol vehicle and the community they serve, ie to have a chat they have to stop the car and get out to speak to someone!!!!!
By cycling through the patch in high vis kit everyone can see them and have a chat etc as they cycle along, (this apparent aimless wandering about albeit on a bike is called community reassurance patrol, in our area it is generally undertaken by neighbourhood beat managers). These officers are encouraged to cycle along slowly to speak to people and gather intelligence on their community, ie to find out what is going on. To the discerning cyclist they look as though they are just riding on the path - breaking all the rules.
Once the call to a job comes in then you will see them speed off and their outward appearance now looks like cops riding too fast on the path!!!!!

An example, cop is working a 2pm to midnight shift, there are major problems with teenage kids drinking in the local play area of the park, they drink their lambrini then smash the bottles rendering the play area a danger to the young kids it is designed for, a family have complained to the local beat manager, an operational order is prepared utilising the community team, and the bike cops, two pairs will wait at one side of the park as colleagues in a patrol vehicle drive into the other side of the park, the kids see the vehicle and run off with their drink and are then captured by the cycling cops, Problem solved for one day,
Next time you see these cops riding along slowly on the path, why not approach them, speak to them and ask what they are doing, believe it or not it makes a pleasant change to speak to someone who is genuinely interested to know what is happening.

mrchrispy

I think cops on bike are the best thing to happen to local policing in a very long time.
They can do no wrong in my book.

Eat My Dust

Mayhemwmb wrote:

Once the call to a job comes in then you will see them speed off and their outward appearance now looks like cops riding too fast on the path!!!!!

lol, not the cop I overtook last night going up a slight incline (it would be an insult to call it a hill) panting and weaving all over the road at about 4 mph. I think if a call had come into him, he would have started crying!!!

mrchrispy

thats the other thing I like about them, most of them make me look god like when it comes to cycling. 8)

richardast

Some of these officers have probably not ridden a bike for 20 years and have gone out with just a few hours training.
At least they're getting out there and giving it a try. Be nice.

Personally, I don't think there's any reason to be on the pavement. If you're doing a slow patrol, do it on the side/back streets or in the parks and estates where maintaining a decent speed on the road doesn't matter so much.

As has been pointed out already, double standards suck, particularly when being displayed by people employed in law enforcement. Police drivers have certain exemptions from the various road traffic laws, if they can justify it. None of the exemptions apply to pedal cycles on pavements.

Each person that gets wound up by a police officer's selfish behaviour is a potential juror.

Dagda

Had a friend point out this thread over on another board, that happens to be for Police Cyclists. Also, before I start I live in the States so my knowledge of the rules of the road for bikes is probably very limited to say the least, but we were originally talking about training.

Yes, training is important! Unfortunately things like bicycle training falls to the way side as a lot of supervisors assume that if an officer rode a bike when they were younger then they should do just fine on duty. This is not just wrong but it can actually open a department up for legal actions, for example, if an officer with no bike training while on a call goes to hop a curb and doesn't quite make it there will probably be a hospital bill and a possible civil action as the department could get sued for "failure to train" that resulted in an injury. Now that's pretty simplistic but still realistic.

Now, what can those not in law enforcement do to get these officers the proper training? First I would try to talk to the officers on bikes. Ask them which bike associations they are with. I know of 2 IPMBA and LEBA. If they are not involved with one, ask them why not. Then ask them what you can do to help them out with getting the proper training. Turn the heat on the bosses, as they are the ones with the authority to get officers into training. Also, you may want to ask them what they are doing as it looked like that were not following the rules of the road. You can also call their station and report their actions, if they are wrong they need to get an ear full to do what everyone else has to do, but they just may be on a call or something of the like that calls for them to be doing what they were seen doing.

But instead of complaining about the things you see, step up and do something about it. You may be surprised when you see something get fixed.

Dagda

Well, it looks as if the Yank has killed the thread! Sorry about that.

Shadowduck

Dagda wrote:

Well, it looks as if the Yank has killed the thread! Sorry about that.

Hey! That's MY job!

[daily mail]
...bloodyforeignerscominoverherestealinourjobsbemurderinusinusbedsnextthenyoullbesorrycanttrustem...
[/daily mail]

mailmannz

I dont think you have killed it...more that the coppers who "patrol" this board have handed out a good dosage of "ownership" over those who thought they were all high and mighty like.

Personally, I see a lot of police on bikes where we are that we wouldnt otherwise see without bikes. I couldnt care less whether they were riding a bike "the wrong way" because all that matters to me is that these guys are there in the first place!

Mailman

Mithras

Mailmanzz,
Thnks for the support!
Steve

Shadowduck

mailmannz wrote:

I dont think you have killed it...more that the coppers who "patrol" this board have handed out a good dosage of "ownership" over those who thought they were all high and mighty like.

I'm surprised you didn't spell it "pwnership". :roll:

That said, some of the posts in this thread have led me to reassess my views* on the wobbly bobbys and I can see that riding slowly on the pavement could increase their effectiveness as a "presence", even if it's not doing the rest of us any favours. They are police first and cyclists second (if at all), I suppose. I still say there's plenty of 'em could do with some extra training and a copy of Cyclecraft, though!

*Call the press! Opinion reconsidered after debate on internet forum shock!

Mithras

Shadowduck wrote:

mailmannz wrote:

I dont think you have killed it...more that the coppers who "patrol" this board have handed out a good dosage of "ownership" over those who thought they were all high and mighty like.

I'm surprised you didn't spell it "pwnership". :roll:

That said, some of the posts in this thread have led me to reassess my views* on the wobbly bobbys and I can see that riding slowly on the pavement could increase their effectiveness as a "presence", even if it's not doing the rest of us any favours. They are police first and cyclists second (if at all), I suppose. I still say there's plenty of 'em could do with some extra training and a copy of Cyclecraft, though!

*Call the press! Opinion reconsidered after debate on internet forum shock!

Duck,
Not disagreeing with you, all letters to mrs Spence at Cambs reguarding cycle training would be greatfully appreaciated. If you could mention IPMBA and PCS in that letter!

Dagda

Shadowduck wrote:

mailmannz wrote:

I dont think you have killed it...more that the coppers who "patrol" this board have handed out a good dosage of "ownership" over those who thought they were all high and mighty like.

I'm surprised you didn't spell it "pwnership". :roll:

That said, some of the posts in this thread have led me to reassess my views* on the wobbly bobbys and I can see that riding slowly on the pavement could increase their effectiveness as a "presence", even if it's not doing the rest of us any favours. They are police first and cyclists second (if at all), I suppose. I still say there's plenty of 'em could do with some extra training and a copy of Cyclecraft, though!

*Call the press! Opinion reconsidered after debate on internet forum shock!

You are absolutely right, in my opinion with the "They are police first and cyclists second (if at all), I suppose. I still say there's plenty of 'em could do with some extra training and a copy of Cyclecraft, though!"

Alot of us ride for fun, but I know I wouldn't call myself a professional in the ways of cyclecraft, not by a long shot, even though I have become pretty proficient on how to fall. What we need though is for the public to tell the supervisors, and the powers that be, that your local peace officers need more training and that you want to see more bike cops on the streets. It falls back to that saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

mailmannz

Shadowduck wrote:

mailmannz wrote:

I dont think you have killed it...more that the coppers who "patrol" this board have handed out a good dosage of "ownership" over those who thought they were all high and mighty like.

I'm surprised you didn't spell it "pwnership". :roll:

Haha...I couldnt remember how to spell it!

Regards

Mailman

meonabike

This one is for the self-righteous - okay guys, what do YOU do for a living? Don't tell me...there'll be the odd plumber/ sparky who's busy doing a crap job and ripping off the public. Maybe we've got the odd banker...I said banker...or an estate agent or saleman - salt of the earth that lot.

Maybe you're just lazy or thick and didn't work hard enough at school to get a decent job, and so now you simply spend all your time writing crap and insulting others who did. Either way, stop complaining and get of your arses and ride a bloody bike. I bet most of you live 'down South' - God bless you all. If you had a decent hill to ride up you'd proabably be pissing around just as much as those you're complaining about - get a life!

At least the cops are out on their bikes - even those with little cycling experience; trying to protect your stupid arse, not wipe it for you!

If you look at the facts, it's not actually their fault that they don't have the correct training. It may well be down to their bosses. Come to think of it...if you're a manager...well you're only one step above a banker - maybe just alter the consenant!

The moral of the story is this: if Darwin was correct...at least you may actually die out eventually.