Police cycle training must be useless!

whyamihere

Today, I was on a bus to college, when a couple of policemen on bikes pulled out of the police station in front of the bus. No problem there, the traffic was slow moving, and the driver had allowed them a gap. However, for about a mile, even though they were keeping pace easily with the traffic, neither of them went more than 6" from the kerb. I could see them having to stand up and absorb the bumps every time they went over a drain cover. Unfortunately, they turned off before I got off the bus, otherwise I would have given them some friendly advice on not getting killed.
Anyway, it got me thinking about a couple of things:
Firstly, do they actually have any road safety training? Any halfway serious cyclist knows that the gutter is the most dangerous place to be, so it seems they've just been pulled out of a patrol car and placed on a bike without even a short talk about riding.
Secondly, what example does it set to new riders? If they hear the 'lycra lout' tales and see us riding in primary or secondary, then see the police officers riding in the gutter, are they then going to assume that it's just another law we're breaking, and assume that the right way to ride is in the gutter? I am considering writing a letter to the station informing them, but I feel I could be making an issue out of nothing. Any thoughts?

redvee

I think the Police are given some training, like how to ride with stabilisers etc. Would imagine only a few hours tuition in a classroom so nothing as major a secondary etc.

Adamskii

Somebody somewhere has obviously decided that riding a bike on the road requires no skill and therefore no training!

The law should be setting a good example.

Eat My Dust

Don't get me started!!! My office is on a one way street. EVERY DAY cops on bikes cycle the wrong way down the street. On Monday there was a group of 4 cops cycling 2 abreast!!! It makes my blood boil that everyday I cycle that extra bit to go down the street the correct way and the cops don't bother!! I haven't actually been in the street when they've been doing this, but when the time comes I will be having a word with them.

On another occassion I was cycling down the road and coming towards me were 2 cops, one on foot and one on a bike AND on the pavement. I stopped and asked the walking policeman if his companion was allowed to cycle on the pavement. He answered that he was (he didn't sound very convinced) I laughed and asked if he was sure. His 2nd response was more of a mumble!!

woodford2barbican

Eat My Dust wrote:

Don't get me started!!! My office is on a one way street. EVERY DAY cops on bikes cycle the wrong way down the street. On Monday there was a group of 4 cops cycling 2 abreast!!! It makes my blood boil that everyday I cycle that extra bit to go down the street the correct way and the cops don't bother!! I haven't actually been in the street when they've been doing this, but when the time comes I will be having a word with them.

On another occassion I was cycling down the road and coming towards me were 2 cops, one on foot and one on a bike AND on the pavement. I stopped and asked the walking policeman if his companion was allowed to cycle on the pavement. He answered that he was (he didn't sound very convinced) I laughed and asked if he was sure. His 2nd response was more of a mumble!!

Take photos!

Gambatte

I was in the car and stopped alongside a couple of coppers on bikes. Reason was about 200m further on the road joins the new Sheffield inner relief road. Nicw new system with cycle lanes, advance stop lines and nice bright red forward boxes for cyclists. I decided to ask if they actually enforced them?

2 mins later I'm in the queue at the 1st junction, car infront of me has stopped at the ASL, the 2 coppers filter up the middle and sit in the box, as WVM rolls up in the left hand lane and sits right up at the lights, on top of the red road.

They didn't even look sideways...

saveswalking

Cops on bikes are are probably looking out for robbers and murderers - not only traffic offences

mind you a few weeks ago I saw and heard a bikecop 'advise' a stray (as in the road cos the pavement was congested) pedestrian that this was an unwise manoeuvre 8)

sw

Drfabulous0

Eat My Dust wrote:

Don't get me started!!! My office is on a one way street. EVERY DAY cops on bikes cycle the wrong way down the street. On Monday there was a group of 4 cops cycling 2 abreast!!! It makes my blood boil that everyday I cycle that extra bit to go down the street the correct way and the cops don't bother!! I haven't actually been in the street when they've been doing this, but when the time comes I will be having a word with them.

Unless you have seen a copy of the traffic order for that road you do not know whether or not it is open to cycles in both directions, it is highly unlikely to be signposted as such even if it is.

Gambatte

saveswalking wrote:

Cops on bikes are are probably looking out for robbers and murderers - not only traffic offences

More likely looking for a cuppa and a danish....

Eat My Dust

Drfabulous0 wrote:

Eat My Dust wrote:

Don't get me started!!! My office is on a one way street. EVERY DAY cops on bikes cycle the wrong way down the street. On Monday there was a group of 4 cops cycling 2 abreast!!! It makes my blood boil that everyday I cycle that extra bit to go down the street the correct way and the cops don't bother!! I haven't actually been in the street when they've been doing this, but when the time comes I will be having a word with them.

Unless you have seen a copy of the traffic order for that road you do not know whether or not it is open to cycles in both directions, it is highly unlikely to be signposted as such even if it is.

Hmm, I don't know about that. There are 2 other one way streets in the same area which are sign posted for cyclist use, so I would expect the street I'm talking about would also be sign posted.

richardast

Gambatte wrote:

saveswalking wrote:

Cops on bikes are are probably looking out for robbers and murderers - not only traffic offences

More likely looking for a cuppa and a danish....

Your sad stereotype is stuck 20 years in the past.

It's espresso and raspberry flapjacks these days.

BentMikey

saveswalking wrote:

mind you a few weeks ago I saw and heard a bikecop 'advise' a stray (as in the road cos the pavement was congested) pedestrian that this was an unwise manoeuvre 8)

sw

In fairness, the pedestrian has just as much right to be in the road as we do. This example is a bit like a police driver telling a cyclist that it's dangerous to cycle in London.

sufferingpete

Last Wednesday I cycled up City road on my way home and two Police were cycling side by side on the pavement. They had not stopped to investigate anything just riding slowly.

I bottled out of shouting anything to them and my phone was inside two plastic bags inside a waterproof saddle bag so I could not take a photo.

Outside our local station there are always police vehicles parked 2 wheels on the pavement and over double yellow lines.

It makes me very they set such an appalling example.

saveswalking

BentMikey wrote:

saveswalking wrote:

mind you a few weeks ago I saw and heard a bikecop 'advise' a stray (as in the road cos the pavement was congested) pedestrian that this was an unwise manoeuvre 8)

sw

In fairness, the pedestrian has just as much right to be in the road as we do. This example is a bit like a police driver telling a cyclist that it's dangerous to cycle in London.

depends what they are doing in the road doesn't it ? If I was to suddenly pull out in front of a vehicle with no warning that would be dangerous yeah ?

sw

Mithras

whyamihere wrote:

Today, I was on a bus to college, when a couple of policemen on bikes pulled out of the police station in front of the bus. No problem there, the traffic was slow moving, and the driver had allowed them a gap. However, for about a mile, even though they were keeping pace easily with the traffic, neither of them went more than 6" from the kerb. I could see them having to stand up and absorb the bumps every time they went over a drain cover. Unfortunately, they turned off before I got off the bus, otherwise I would have given them some friendly advice on not getting killed.
Anyway, it got me thinking about a couple of things:
Firstly, do they actually have any road safety training? Any halfway serious cyclist knows that the gutter is the most dangerous place to be, so it seems they've just been pulled out of a patrol car and placed on a bike without even a short talk about riding.
Secondly, what example does it set to new riders? If they hear the 'lycra lout' tales and see us riding in primary or secondary, then see the police officers riding in the gutter, are they then going to assume that it's just another law we're breaking, and assume that the right way to ride is in the gutter? I am considering writing a letter to the station informing them, but I feel I could be making an issue out of nothing. Any thoughts?

Ah,
I get back from holiday, a lovely week in holland successfully teaching my tow little lads the joys of two wheel mobility in a safe and clean environment, turn on my computer and immediately someone is having a go...........
In fairness, those police cyclists lucky enough to get cycle training from the International Police Mountain Bike Association (IPMBA) or the British Public Safety Cycling are well trained. Cambridgeshire Constabulary take note!!!!!
Police ride on pavements and go the wrong way up one way streets, RLJ (in an emergency) and ignore many other road traffic regulations because generally they have permission from the local authority to do so. This aids in patroling areas where they coudn't go otherwise and being able to make it too a location in the shortest time possible. Each officer has to be able to justify his actions at the time!
Now if an officer is not taking action on a road traffic offence it is very likely that he/she is either unsure or does not know what the offence is. Officers on cycles are not traffic officers they do not have this speacialist knowledge. If i was to stop someone for a minor offence and then have to wait for a traffic officer I could end up wasting an hour of everyones time. I don't say it is right, just that that is the way it is. With the resources available, priorities have to be made and some offences let go with a word of advice!
http://www.impba.org
http://www.bikesquad.org/index2.html

Gambatte

Mithras wrote:

priorities have to be made and some offences let go with a word of advice!

and some keep looking straight ahead, ignoring whats happening right at the side of them, something they've had a complaint about from the public less than 2 mins before, whilst said member of the public is 2 vehicles behind them - as they know 'cos they've just filtered past....

Mithras

Gambette,
Can't defend thier actions, at least a word in his ear should have been had!
Wouldn't happen on my patch.

wilfus

Mithras wrote:

Ah,
I get back from holiday, a lovely week in holland successfully teaching my tow little lads the joys of two wheel mobility in a safe and clean environment, turn on my computer and immediately someone is having a go...........
In fairness, those police cyclists lucky enough to get cycle training from the International Police Mountain Bike Association (IPMBA) or the British Public Safety Cycling are well trained. Cambridgeshire Constabulary take note!!!!!
Police ride on pavements and go the wrong way up one way streets, RLJ (in an emergency) and ignore many other road traffic regulations because generally they have permission from the local authority to do so. This aids in patroling areas where they coudn't go otherwise and being able to make it too a location in the shortest time possible. Each officer has to be able to justify his actions at the time!
Now if an officer is not taking action on a road traffic offence it is very likely that he/she is either unsure or does not know what the offence is. Officers on cycles are not traffic officers they do not have this speacialist knowledge. If i was to stop someone for a minor offence and then have to wait for a traffic officer I could end up wasting an hour of everyones time. I don't say it is right, just that that is the way it is. With the resources available, priorities have to be made and some offences let go with a word of advice!
http://www.impba.org
http://www.bikesquad.org/index2.html

I agree entirely with what Mithras has said. If police cyclists stuck to the rules all of the time then there would be no point being on cycles. The whole point of them is to enable officers to get to all the places that they wouldn't normally be able to get to in a car and try and get the upper hand on offenders who use a cycle as their mode of transport which is becoming increasingly common.

Here at Humberside anyone who wishes to ride a police cycle has to do a three day cycling course. Considering that the basic course to drive police vehicles in a non emergency situation is only two days long I think that three days on a cycling course is ample. I don't know what the course consists of but surely its just common sense not to ride in the gutter.

Shadowduck

wilfus wrote:

*snip* ... surely its just common sense not to ride in the gutter.

...and yet, so many of them do. Or on the pavement, when they could just as easily / effectively be on the road.

Gambatte

Shadowduck wrote:

...and yet, so many of them do. Or on the pavement, when they could just as easily / effectively be on the road.

Its what I see in Sheffield...

Surely if they're travelling in the same direction as other traffic, they ought to be on the road?

Mayhemwmb

I read this thread with interest, I am CID, I work in a relatively poor town that was once part of the Northumberland Coal field, Regarding colleagues setting a bad example by poor road craft, riding on the path etc. I can't pass comment as I don't know what they are tasked with doing.
At work I use a bike on occasion during pro-active patrol during the night, invariably I am dressed in scruffy dark clothing, with no lights and no helmet. A bike is a fantastic tool for fighting crime, invariably you can cover 98% of town, get across parks, go down footpaths and catch up with people before they know I am there, however road traffic rules etc are generally disregarded. The reason for this - The criminals that commit burglaries, steal from cars etc pay no regard for these minor rules, sometimes to catch them you need to do the same to get near them.
I have recently done a week of this work, by the sixth night I spoke to a local criminal who didn't recognise me - he went on to tell me to be careful as the radgy CID were out on bikes complaining it was unfair as they were getting caught.
As a Police officer doing this I am taking a personal risk - if a member of the public saw me committing an offence, photgraphed it and sent it to my supervising officers I may get dealt with for the offence.
Should I fall off and injure myself without the compulsory helmet - I would be liable for my own injury as I went against the regulations. However there is no point in going out with the helmet on as every criminal would ping you from a mile off!!!!
The question I put to you,
1) Wear all the provided appropriate personal protective kit and stick to all the laws/rules and be as effective as a chocolate fire guard.
2) Compromise yourself and breach rules & regulations in order to do the job and catch the criminals??

My answer is the second, I didn't join the police for the petty small matters, I joined the police to help the good people and put the shite in prison.

Shadowduck

Sounds like you're doing good work, mayhemwmb, and I'm certainly glad you're doing it.

I think most of the respondents to this thread were referring to uniformed officers - I certainly was! What you're talking about is surely a completely different matter from a hi-viz wearing plod wobbling along in the gutter, so I'm not sure it's all that relevant to the topic.

Gambatte

Mayhemwmb wrote:

The question I put to you,
1) Wear all the provided appropriate personal protective kit and stick to all the laws/rules and be as effective as a chocolate fire guard.
2) Compromise yourself and breach rules & regulations in order to do the job and catch the criminals??

Difference is, you're not out as an identifiable 'plod', you're out attempting to look like you're definitely not.

The problem considered is with an identifiable police presence, behaving contrary to road traffic laws, with no apparent need. Road or pavement, the pavement is chosen etc/

If the police are seen to behave in such a manner, why shouldn't Joe Public?

BentMikey

I'd also like to point out that you do sometimes see this happening with plod in uniform, and idling along, so to me at least it's clear that it's simply bad riding, and not anything required by their work at the time.

Denny69

Ahh the "Local copper" on an MTB......I was cycling to work a few weeks ago and an officer on an "MTB" tried to keep up with me on my Road/Race bike.....so I wondered just how fast he could go.....lost him when I hit 30mph!!! for me they should be equipped with hybrids...much faster and still have a bit of off road capability too.

Gambatte

Denny69 wrote:

Ahh the "Local copper" on an MTB......I was cycling to work a few weeks ago and an officer on an "MTB" tried to keep up with me on my Road/Race bike.....so I wondered just how fast he could go.....lost him when I hit 30mph!!! for me they should be equipped with hybrids...much faster and still have a bit of off road capability too.

Weighed down with eqipment, blues & twos, stab vests etc - not surprised you lost 'em.

Denny69

You on about me there with the stab vest!! If you knew where I lived you'd understand!!!! still to go that quick with all that gear...imagine how quick he would've been without it!!!

CraigXXL

First time posting in this section of the forum but after reading this thread I had to comment.

I have witnessed police on bikes going the wrong way down a one way street. No they wasn't in pursuit of some toe rag and it doesn't give them access to another area where they couldn't patrol because another road runs parallel with the street less than 10 yards away.

I have also seen them ride side by side, one on the pavement with pedestrians moving out of his way and the other on the road whilst they chatted away.

They are no excuses for not knowing these rules of the road and if they don't then they shouldn't be allowed to put a uniform on in the first place.

Before any one jumps to conclusions I am not misinformed nor prejudice to the police. I served most of army career supporting the police in Northern Ireland, with driver training from the police at both Preston and Belfast. Many good friends are serving officers and the other half's family are nearly all retired inspectors but they all seem to agree that standards are below what they should be. Government targets seem to be the number one reason for everything poor in modern policing when we discuss these matters.

However it does annoy me that we have one rule us and another for the police and they (the uniformed) must be seen to uphold the law at all times. I mean how can you have respect for the police when you see the police using their blues and two's to get through a set of traffic lights just to see the same car two minutes later at the supermarket with officers not apprehending a shop lifter or anything but shopping!

Remember that respect is earned and not a right, when you start to loose the respect of people like myself then that thin blue line has got a whole lot thinner.

Sorry about the length of this response but as I said I had to comment after reading the replies from Mithras and Mayhemwmb.

Mayhemwmb

CraigXXL wrote:

I mean how can you have respect for the police when you see the police using their blues and two's to get through a set of traffic lights just to see the same car two minutes later at the supermarket with officers not apprehending a shop lifter or anything but shopping!

Remember that respect is earned and not a right, when you start to loose the respect of people like myself then that thin blue line has got a whole lot thinner.

Sorry about the length of this response but as I said I had to comment after reading the replies from Mithras and Mayhemwmb.

I can understand your irritation if what you have seen is the complete truth and the entire circumstances, however I have driven on many blue light runs through heavy traffic, only to get the 'cancel' prior to reaching the required location, if those officers were due on their lunch, why not collect their food having been cancelled from the task they were sent to.

In the force I work every vehicle is fitted with a 'black' box recorder, should an accident occur it records all data ie speed, indicator activated, blues & two's activated, braking forces speed at impact and the 20 seconds before hand.
Every car is fitted with a gps radio set which shows a 'snail trail' on a map in the control room, every persons personal radio is gps equipped and locations are recorded.
The risk of driving a blue light run when there is no need and knowing the consequences of getting caught (ie losing your job or going to court or even worse seriously injuring someone). If a cop is prepared to do that then he doesn't deserve to wear the uniform.
Do you really think police officers would take all these risks just because they want to get to Asda 20 seconds earlier, I Don't think so

Mayhemwmb

Any way to get back on 'topic', YES my work cycle training was crap!!! I was told to not cycle into immovable objects - as it might cause injury!!! We sat in a class room for about 20 minutes whilst some non cyclist talked about safety? Then we were given a requisition form and ordered our cycle specific equipment!!!

CraigXXL

I wish I could say that his call was cancelled and that he had decided to go get something to eat but since the turnoff to the supermarket was only 20 yards past the lights then he must have made some very decisions after getting the message to cancel the call. This isn't an isolated incident as it has become a standard joke that if you want the police you'll either find them shopping or getting a takeaway due to the amount of times we see police officers doing this. To add insult to this some have lost the ability to park in one space in the car parks or the ability to queue like public.

If you think this is all exaggerated then come up to Leeds and see for yourself. I don't have any score to settle with the police, my criminal record extends as far as 3 points on my licence, I say as I see it.