Campag snobbery makes me want to smoke crack...

13

Comments

  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    I've got chorus on my nice road bike and shimano on my commuter / winter bike and they're both ideal for purpose. I like the fact that I can brake pretty much at the same time as shifting down with the shimano even when wearing heavy mittens - perfect for stop/start winter commuting. I don't need or want that on my good road bike though and in all other respects I prefer the feel and compact solidity of the campag levers. Braking from the hoods feels more cumbersome with shimano (that might just be down to the shape and size of my hands). I prefer the texture of the rubber on the chorus shifters and the shimano levers are wider and flatter than I am ideally comfortable with where they meet that bit of skin between thumb and 1st finger. I love the tactile feel of the campag thumbshifters and the more positive clunk of the shifting seems right on the fast bike while the "so smooth you forget it's there" feel of shimano is great for every-day practical use.

    The aesthetics of the two are also completely different. Some people don't care about aesthetics, which is fine, but what isn't fine is to denigrate aesthetics as valueless or having aesthetic preferences as snobbery, assuming aesthetic choices aren't at the expense of functionality. Shimano is shiny, techy, post-modern, 1980's SF (think Terminator or Aliens) while Campag is heritage, faintly modernist (in the 1930s sense), understated class. Actually I like the aesthetics of both (I really like Shimano rear mechs, all futurist, blueish shiny metal) but I prefer Campag. Others may differ.
  • Ste_S
    Ste_S Posts: 1,173
    I realised the other day why Campag has such a small R&D budget, they let Shimano do it all for them and then introduce it a year or so later
  • Rob Sallnow
    Rob Sallnow Posts: 6,279
    Ste_S wrote:
    I realised the other day why Campag has such a small R&D budget, they let Shimano do it all for them and then introduce it a year or so later

    And when was that other day? 1992? or are you just that far behind the times :roll:
    I'd rather walk than use Shimano
  • allaction
    allaction Posts: 209
    On the Sora thumb-lever (slightly off topic sorry) I find it is easier to use that on my winter bike with full length gloves than it is my Ultegra steed as you don't have as much feel in your fingers.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    Yeah, thumb levers much better than shifters behind the brakes for using with mittens. It's easier to shift UP on campag with gloves on, but easier to shift down with Shimano. With the levers behind the brakes you have to get the knack of nudging them with the edge of the glove or the ends of your fingers.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    Must remember never to get SRAM on a winter bike while living in Helsinki...
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    Rob Sallnow wrote:
    Ste_S wrote:
    I realised the other day why Campag has such a small R&D budget, they let Shimano do it all for them and then introduce it a year or so later

    And when was that other day? 1992? or are you just that far behind the times :roll:
    Ste_S must be that rare beast - a Shimano snob :?
  • Ste_S
    Ste_S Posts: 1,173
    Nah, just do it to wind up the people with Campag signatures :wink:
  • John Stevenson
    John Stevenson Posts: 962
    calvjones wrote:
    Any fule economist will tell you: one tool for one job. Brake lever that also shifts gears?

    No ta.

    You must have a *sod* of a lot of computers

    One for email
    One for reading the web
    One for posting to forums
    One for running a spreadsheet...
    John Stevenson
  • John Stevenson
    John Stevenson Posts: 962
    HarryB wrote:
    How it really works is the pro's ride what they are given.

    Up to a point. My favourite examples are disc wheels and aero bars. When it became obvious that you couldn't win a TT at the highest level if you didn't have them and your competition did, everyone started using them.

    Some things really do make a differerence, but I agree that shifting systems almost certainly aren't among them.
    John Stevenson
  • John Stevenson
    John Stevenson Posts: 962
    acorn_user wrote:
    Thinking back to those Euclid levers, a lot of contemporary Suntour and Shimano levers were like that too.

    No, they weren't. Euclid levers touched in the middle of a 23in flat bar. They were enormous.

    Shimano was making much lighter and tidier gear by the time Campagnolo brought out Euclid, and that was the problem. Campagnolo was playing catch-up in a field that was developing extremely rapidly.

    It didn't help that even Record OR didn't actually work very well. Its shifting wasn't as good as Shimano's by a street. It did have nice thumbshifters though. Pity that Shimano had got the bugs out of Rapidfire II by then.
    acorn_user wrote:
    *There are rumours that the Dura Ace carbon chainset is going to be crazy expensive..

    My notes are at the office, but if memory serves, Shimano were saying USD1300 at Interbike. Definitely crazy.
    John Stevenson
  • olr1
    olr1 Posts: 2,674
    The most desirable levers at the time were Dia Compe SS5s, with a total weight of 173 grams for the pair. I can't find the weight of Euclid brake/shifters, but i'm guessing the instructions weigh about that much!


    Ahem, so a much, much older person told me; I have no experience of such historical things, being far too young. :oops:
    <font size="1"> I am considerably more gorgeous than you </font id="size1">
  • rustychisel
    rustychisel Posts: 3,444
    I go fixed, mostly with Suntour. Sod the rest of you.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    I\'m only escaping to here because the office is having a conniption
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    That's because Australia's flat as a pancake that's been squashed slightly.

    Now singlespeed/fixed snobbery, that's another thing entirely...
  • davecooper
    davecooper Posts: 290
    Have no preference really but a bit of a soft spot for Shimano as that was what my first brand new bike came with. It was a 1979 Viscount Grand Sport with Shimano 600 gears.
    Great looking and worked flawlessly, I still look back on that steed with fondness.
  • phil s
    phil s Posts: 1,128
    The title of this topic never fails to make me laugh, and I so agree with the OP
    -- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    In defence of Sora shifters you can use them from the drops with a bit of a twist of the hand (at least I can). Used them for a season racing and while Shimano's higher end offerings are a bit better ergonomically, you aren't going to win or lose a race based on the shifter design.

    Personally I never stick to one manufacturer so across 4 bikes (2 road and 2 mtb) I have campag, shimano, SRAM, Avid and shock horror it all works great.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    I think it would be funnier as a headline in "The Sun" or the "News of the Wolrd".... "CAMPAG SNOBBERY MADE ME SMOKE CRACK". Hey, maybe pros who use shimano should get a second chance if they fail a blood test.. :D
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    eh wrote:
    In defence of Sora shifters you can use them from the drops with a bit of a twist of the hand (at least I can). Used them for a season racing and while Shimano's higher end offerings are a bit better ergonomically, you aren't going to win or lose a race based on the shifter design.
    Personally I never stick to one manufacturer so across 4 bikes (2 road and 2 mtb) I have campag, shimano, SRAM, Avid and shock horror it all works great.

    So very true.
    If you need to change gear on the drops in a sprint you've got it very wrong .
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Nicolo wrote:
    eh wrote:
    In defence of Sora shifters you can use them from the drops with a bit of a twist of the hand (at least I can). Used them for a season racing and while Shimano's higher end offerings are a bit better ergonomically, you aren't going to win or lose a race based on the shifter design.
    Personally I never stick to one manufacturer so across 4 bikes (2 road and 2 mtb) I have campag, shimano, SRAM, Avid and shock horror it all works great.

    So very true.
    If you need to change gear on the drops in a sprint you've got it very wrong .

    what about in a lone break, sweating like a stuck pig, keeping low and aero as possible, concentrating hard on correct pedal stroke, cadence, breathing, with that monster adrenalin rush that comes from realising it might just stick. That's when being able to change down a gear quickly and in the drops helps you out
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Nice bit of prose but nowt stopping you changing down in the drops even with Sora.
  • stevechambers34
    stevechambers34 Posts: 458
    I would set up a website totally dedicated to Vintage Japanese stuff because I love it , mid range upwards was easily as good as Campagnolo EASILY!!! only I am crap with computers.
    Shimano 600 Arabesque and early DA was extremely good,Suntour VX, Cyclone and above rocks in fact Suntour derailleurs from the early mid 70's WERE the best of their type and have not been bettered , the Vx long cage rear was THE best, the most robust and useful(you could remove the chain without splitting the cage) Gran Compe brakes were easily as good as Campagnolo Record quality and possibly better in braking performance, SR Royal cutout extensions and lightened bars were great and again as good as Cinelli.
    Campagnolo looks great especially the older stuff with engravings it worked fine no doubt it was robust but it was is expensive, and yes I have ridden and used all of these up to modern 8/9 speed from about 8 years ago , I do agree the Shimano gear/brake levers units from then at least occassionaly gave me cause for concern.
    My most used machine is fitted with Modolo gear/brake units than can be switched between Campagnolo,Shimano 7, 8 or 9 speed Ihave been using them trouble free for around 6 years and they work with cantilevers.


    "I use Campag stuff to prop open my shed doors"
    being a reformed stuntdrinker allows pontification
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Nicolo wrote:
    Nice bit of prose but nowt stopping you changing down in the drops even with Sora.

    there is, but I can't put my finger (or thumb) on it... oh yeah, i wouldn't be in a lone break with a sora bike. :wink:

    seriously, the sora thumb shifters work fine from the hoods, but for me and I'd think quite a lot of people they aren't really within easy reach from the drops. It's a nice to have that campag gives you rather than something that will generally win you races I'd agree.
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    To be honest last time I was on a solo break in a race I rode like I had invisible tribars and in that situation you are nowhere near the breaks/shifters regardless of make. However, on shimano you do have a cable to gently rest your hands on, hence, ugly but sometimes useful :lol:
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    eh wrote:
    To be honest last time I was on a solo break in a race I rode like I had invisible tribars and in that situation you are nowhere near the breaks/shifters regardless of make. However, on shimano you do have a cable to gently rest your hands on, hence, ugly but sometimes useful :lol:

    that is true, the antennae make nice impromptu tri bars. though i can't help feeling they, and the big ol pistol shifters are less aero?
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Actually I doubt the cables make a difference to the aero profile, since shortly after the air passes them it smashes into a huge object called your body!!!

    You have hit on why I presonally prefer Shimano shifter though all mine are setup pistol style, which is great for all day aggressive riding. Although if anyone wants to send me some Record shifters so that I can do a proper comparison feel free :wink:
    Heck I can even do a straight swap for the Sora ones on my hack bike with no setup issues.
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    "Anyway. The amount of snobbery you get about campag really makes me tempted to stick 2 fingers up at the snobs and get Shimano just to pss them off"].

    I prefer the Campag ergos, but am not fussed on the rest of a
    groupset.
  • G man
    G man Posts: 57
    This is one funny thread. I'm really pleased with my shimano stuff, as I find the hoods comfy for my big hands. It would be sensible to stick with them, but each time I see the campag stuff I think maybe I should try it . Have I got Campag envy? It's nothing to do with snobbery, I just need to have some Campag in my life at some point. Also want to try SRAM as well. You only live once!
    respectez le bitumen
  • OC_sprinter
    OC_sprinter Posts: 3
    Well not to make this another Boston tea party but in defense of my fellow Amerikans (or rather, "defence" since we are writing real english) "campy" doesn't butcher the Italian language any worse than "Campag." Seeing as one doesn't pronounce the "g" in a hard manner "campag" would be a seemingly inappropriate nick name. On to the topic.

    I see this is a very emotional topic for the Brits so I will be gentle. There are far too many "vintage" references here. Who really cares what all the shifters were like in the 80's? Too may people seem engrossed with the evolution rather than the final product. Also, I don't see much reference to actual RACING. This leads me to believe not many "voters" here are currently racing.

    I race and I will tell you that Dura-Ace and and Record are both very nice. In a race, it's about performance not looks, so all this spouting off about ugly this and ugly that is futile. By the way, if you own Dura Ace or Record and you aren't racing then you are not fully utilizing the products anyway. You just want to look spiffy on your Saturday morning group ride. There is a difference between using a nice product and just being able to buy it.

    This debate will never end but I will say this: The most pathetic thing to watch is a clown on a $9k Colnago with Record and carbon everything get dropped off the back like a discarded water bottle by 30 people riding bikes half the cost.
  • Coyote
    Coyote Posts: 212
    Congratulations Mrs Sprinter, you get todays star prize for the most arrogant nonsense spouted on the forum today. The prize is a bag of horse sh*t which you clearly don't need as you are full of it already.

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