Campag snobbery makes me want to smoke crack...

heavymental

...or have I got the name of that Beck song wrong?!

Anyway. The amount of snobbery you get about campag really makes me tempted to stick 2 fingers up at the snobs and get Shimano just to pss them off. The way the Campag snobs make it seem like riding with Shimano is not only a fashion faux pas but also a great deal worse from a functional point of view really gets my goat. I've only ever ridden my road bike which has 105 from a few years back but I'm going to go Campag on my new steed because I want to kit it out with nice stuff and I like the idea of having no cables out infront. Now, some may say I've fallen for the hype and the snobbery myself but I've never had any problems with 105 so I wouldn't dream of getting on my high horse about Campag no matter how good I find it to be. 105 works ok, it looks ok, if something goes wrong I can go into any old bike shop and get a new part and I can't see how Campag is going to be significantly better to be honest. Especially considering that 105 is mid range Shimano. I'm sure Ultegra and Dura-Ace must be pretty tidy trouble free set ups. And although some say its ugly...come on...its hardly a world away from campy.

I'm not after reasons why I will find it significantly better, i'm just pointing out that those label freaks among us who wet their pants everytime they see that squiggly Italian logo and guffaw when they see a piece of Shimano should ask themselves why they're doing it. I'm a bit of a snob myself but recentl;y I've questioned my own reasons. I was after a Italian frame for a while but when a Scott came up I ummed and ahhed for ages before I realised that if the frame had been the same but the logo on the downtube had said Colnago or Pinarello I wouldn't have thought twice about buying it even though the quality would have been the same as the Scott...or dare I say it...a Trek!

I'm even tempted to go buy a trek kitted out in Bonty parts and Shimano and going on a mission to roast the campy posers on their blindy bought Italian frames! I'm going to wear Shimano shorts and an old US Postal jersey and watch their faces!

PhilofCas

you're not being serious surely ?

tatanab

Use what you like or what works for you. I don't mind.

I am however a bit of a snob. All my frames are by custom frame builders of reknown, even if a couple of them are stock frames.

Campag - I use Campag because I am of a generation (started club riding in 1969) to whom Campag was expensive and something a young man could only aspire to. Like most people I used Weinemann, Simplex, Huret, Le Tour, TA, and Stronglight - all good European names. Note there is no Japanaese equipment there. It was around the very early 70s that Japanese equipemnt first appeared and it was very poor indeed. However, as they tend to, they learned very quickly and you only have to look at the quality they now offer over a large price range.

I have Shimano equipment in a few places, I even mix Shimano and Campag on the same machine e.g. where the Shimano hub is better but I used a Campag chainset. For Japanese quality kit, Sun Tour gears of the early 80s were arguably better than Shimano, but the size of the Shimano empire came to dominate.

So you can use what you like, just never use that stupid Americanism "Campy" (why don't they call Shimano "Shimmy"?).

APIII

If you go for Shimano, you'll have plenty of cash left over to buy crack

top_bhoy

Campag must be great - its got your heart rate and blood pressure racing away

wildmoustache

yeah, roast the campy crap riding snobs like er, malcolm elliot maybe?

your first post reads like a twisted piece of snobbery itself in all honesty, though i know you didn't mean it that way.

both manufacturers make great products. Record is in a league of own due to its low weight.

functionally, they are a bit different but one isn't necessarily better than the other. DA brakes tend to be regarded as superior. Campag has nicer compact chainsets and the multiple gear dump which is nice.

DA is very good value and the chainset is a work of art. the shifters look crap.

i've got shimano on three bikes and campag on one. i prefer campag due to the look and smaller hoods, but find shimano easier to maintain and cheaper. .

heavymental

ok, ok I'll calm down. I just wanted to get accross how annoying it is to see posts that seem to pledge such blinkered faith in Campag. There's not that many to be fair but every so often someone will show some snobbery that really makes me think, sod it, I'll just get Shimano to distance myself from that attitude.

Smokin Joe

It's those stupid signature lines from the campag fanatics that annoy me.

peanut

yeah its pathetic really. If Campy was as cheap-as-chips then no one would want it and go buy Mavic or something else.
I use both together without any qualms. As a champion cheapskate I get more satisfaction from recovering a set of rims from a skip and refurbing them that i would from buying a £500+ wheelset.
comeon fellas get real. Do you really think buying a set of wheels costing a weeks salary is going to make you go any faster :roll:
try losing a stone or two in weight lol

giant_man

Once you have had Campagnolo, especially Chorus or Record, you do become snobby and for good reason, the main one being it leaves you higher than any self inforced drug could ever achieve!

piedwagtail91

i'd agree with what tatanab says above, i'm from the same "era" pre japenese .
i got one of the first jap double chainsets ,i think it was made by sakae ,it cost £6.50 and was rubbish. jap stuff has come a long way since then and one of my bikes has varoius shimano bits on from all the different ranges , xt ,deore dura ace dt levers and various tiagra bits..
my "best"bike is a roberts tourer which is campag throughout because i hate the cables in front of the bars, which is the reason for the dt levers on the other bike.
there is very little difference between the two performnace wise.
my most used bike has very little from either campag or shimano as it's fixed gear and full of miche bits save for some shimano xtr v brakes.
niether campag or shimano really cater for the tourer with their stock chainsets although at least shimano do a deeper drop brakeset, campag being a bit "snobbish"! and not daring to stray from racing!

Monty Dog

Perhaps as an owner of one of those 'stupid signature lines' then maybe I should contribute...
When I started riding as a poor student over 20 years ago, I couldn't afford 'expensive' components and bikes - my first bikes were all built up with whatever was cheap e.g. Stronglight, Shimano, Sun Tour or whatever. I took umbrage to the Campagnolo snobbery and continued like this for the next 10 years or so - my bike was a tool for both transport and pleasure - often frustrated by often poorly finished kit that literally corroded away before your eyes. I finally managed to get my hands on a Chorus-equipped bike in about 1992 and it was a revelation - the quality and finish of the parts and the fact that it didn't seize up in winter - I'm still using some of these parts today. I also saw what the aggressive marketing policies of Shimano did to the component industry - blatently copying and killing-off the likes of Sun Tour, and driving the likes of Mavic to marginalise on wheels. I believe that choice and competition is what drives innovation in the marketplace and I'm grateful for the likes of Campagnolo and more recently SRAM to take on dominant players. Some of us buy bikes as much based on the esoteric as the hard-nosed cost - I've no doubt that the likes of Shimano, Specialized, Trek, Scott etc make good products - I've built, ridden and serviced enough of them to know that - but that doesn't mean they're perfect. Disappointingly, given the resources and money available they're not perfect and perhaps demonstrates that passion is just as important to some as much as profit. The bike I ride is as much a statement about me and my passion for the heritage and history of cycling. Perhaps with the opportunity to ride some other bikes you'll see things differently too?

Smokin Joe

So, nobody reads my signature line then...?

pliptrot

Remember if it wasn't for Shimano we'd all be using downtube friction shifters, old-school side pull brakes and rear derailleurs not utilizing the slant-parallelogram design. Campag derided indexed shifting when it first appeared and were last to the table with freehubs. I made some comments a little while ago that Dura Ace is better finished than Record (how that upset some!), but - simply - bicycle bits are low tech and things change. The biggest criticism of Shimano in the 80s was that they constantly changed designs and models, whereas the Europeans kept on making the same good stuff, which was back compatible for a decade or so. Now the boot is on the other foot, as it where, and that vice has become an "innovative" virtue. If you let yourself be defined by the bike you ride, you need - with respect - to get a life. And if you got laid by riding Campag, you need to find a girlfriend who doesn't read out loud to herself.

olr1

Same old story, the Campag thing. Some people, and I'm not adressing this at anyone, just musing generally, some people, use material things and their preference for certain types of material things to define their place within a given culture. Campagnolo is a good example; it's a little bit European, a little bit traditional, a little bit not-the-norm, a little bit the Apple to Shimanos' Microsoft, a bit Alfa Romeo to a Mondeo. It suggests that the owner is 'keeping it real', is more into his cycling than others, is steeped in the history and traditions of the sport.

Any objective, logical approach to the whole Campagnolo/Shimano debate rapidly reveals that Campagnolo only continues to exist because of a global cycling market supplied to a great extent by Shimano. Just like the motoring industry, the reason we can buy more esoteric cars is because the mass market is supplied by Ford, etc.

http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2006/ ... campy.html

Is an interesting read, guaranteed to get the 'Campag is the only thing I can possibly ride' brigade up in arms, and the best quote from it is this one;


"Of course, to be fair, I should point out that Campagnolo also has a history of innovation. I like quick release hubs as much as the next guy, but really, how long can you rest on that one?"


Cue flaming from frothing Campag users, but until Campag manage a decent mountain bike groupset, I'm afraid the debate is stale.

Me? I'll ride any groupset, from any country. I'm riding Shimano at the moment because they do what I want them to; good road groupsets, excellent mountain bike groupsets, and a fair amount of interchangeability and common tools between the two. I like Campagnolo, but the lack of market penetration to anything other than 'serious' roadbikes means it's a none starter for anyone riding anything other than road.

bryanm

Lets just sit down over a nice glass of wine and discuss this like adults......

Don't worry, I'll open the bottle with my Campagnolo bottle opener....

campagsarge

Ride what the chuff you like, although I must admit I did stop using Shimano as I never got laid. On the upside, it was a good contraceptive, if a tad expensive.

I remember walking into my LBS and the guy behind the counter asking: 'ShimSarge, why the long face?' With his help and through the use of CBT (Changing Bicyclecomponents Therepy), I gradually changed over to Campagnolo.

Since changing over to Campagnolo my life has improved ten fold. Girls actually speak to me in bars and my best pulliing line never fails: 'Hey, honey, d'yer wanna come back to mine and double downshift my Chorus ergo lever©'.

tatanab

olr1 wrote:

until Campag manage a decent mountain bike groupset, I'm afraid the debate is stale.

They did. Late 80s/ early 90s they made a range of MTB equipment right up to Record standard. It was over engineered (perhaps) and like the proverbial brick outhouse. It was probably too expensive, I don't recall, and not mainstream enough for the MTB brigade who only knew Shimano back then. I don't recall SRAM or other mountain bike equipment at the time. I have three of their chainsets still in regular use, which explains largely how I use Campag chainsets on my touring bikes.

Me? I'll ride any groupset, from any country.

Again, a generation thing, I've never bought a groupset in my life. When I were a lad there was no such thing. Just as back then I pick and choose equipment from anywhere in a manufacturer's range and indeed from whichever manufacturer I choose, mixing the equipment from several manufacturers to achieve what I want. Just because I use Campag gearing does not mean I have to use Campag hubs, I use Shimano.

olr1

Hmm, called Euclid? or something?

I recall it was a bit poo, rather than not-being-used-cos-its-not-shimano.

If Campag had got into the MTB market, I think we would have seen more innovation and maybe better quality stuff across the range, shame really.

I think the 'rivalry' is a good thing; it keeps Shimano innovating, and encourages Campag and others like SRAM to attempt to gain a slice of that market.
Campag is as good for Shimano as the other way round, just a bit silly for people to define themselves by reference to a product..........

pedalrog

I use both Campag and Shimano on different bikes - and one bike with a mixture and both have their place. However,I find Campag more robust and lasts longer - it also looks better but Shimano works very nicely - particularly the STI levers, I worry how long it will last though.

aracer

pliptrot wrote:

Remember if it wasn't for Shimano we'd all be using downtube friction shifters, old-school side pull brakes and rear derailleurs not utilizing the slant-parallelogram design. Campag derided indexed shifting when it first appeared.

Well the slant-parallelogram was a Suntour invention (protected by patent - Shimano only started using it when that patent expired in 1984), and Campag had indexing in 1950.

Ste_S

It's a generation thing.

Most people 'of a certain age' grew up with Campag and see Shimano as the Japanese company that makes fishing reels

More recent generations don't have the same outlook on Japanese products, especially the fixed gear crowd who go bonkers over anything with a NJS stamp on it.

thebigbrazilian

For mine.....its Campag

I like the concealed cables and the downshift buttons. I can't stand the thought of grabbing for the brakes one day and feeling the whole lever rotate out of my fingers.

I also like the cable release buttons on the brake levers. If you forget to tighen them after changing a wheel, you still have full braking power.

Shimano just doesn't match up in these features.

PhilofCas

thebigbrazilian wrote:

For mine.....its Campag

I like the concealed cables and the downshift buttons.
me too
I can't stand the thought of grabbing for the brakes one day and feeling the whole lever rotate out of my fingers.
Happened to me recently, only ever ridden a Campag equipped road bike, tried my mates Shimano one, i live top of a hill, pulled front brake and it justs flopped to the left, weird i thought, didn't like it, though, as with anything, you'll get used to it.

I also like the cable release buttons on the brake levers.
Neat touch, good design.

If you forget to tighen them after changing a wheel, you still have full braking power.

Shimano just doesn't match up in these features.

as above

DavidBelcher

campagsarge wrote:

Ride what the chuff you like, although I must admit I did stop using Shimano as I never got laid. On the upside, it was a good contraceptive, if a tad expensive.

Does this mean that STIs stop you picking up STDs? (I'll get me coat....)

Shimano stuff seems extremely popular on the 'cross circuit, with all other brands in a tiny minority, though I'm not certain why - the design of the levers and routing of the cables looks to make for a vulnerable set-up compared with Ergopower (I use a Chorus 9sp Ergo for the rear mech with ordinary brake lever plus bar-end shifter on the L/H side of the bars, and all cables run under the bar tape). Maybe it's the fact that there's some interchangeability between Shimano road and MTB stuff allowing riders to use wider-ratio cassettes and hubs with superior muck-proof characteristics from their off-road ranges?

David

DavidBelcher

olr1 wrote:

Hmm, called Euclid? or something?

I recall it was a bit poo, rather than not-being-used-cos-its-not-shimano.

Not popular as it was over-engineered (like all the Campag MTB stuff) and much heavier as a result. By the time the re-designed, lightened Record OR group appeared, the market had shifted firmly to the Shimano camp, and the boat was well and truly missed. As far as European brands go, Sachs-Huret had a much better stab at the off-road market, and earned a sound reputation for their Wavey twist-shifters. This success, however, ultimately led to them being gobbled up by SRAM, the first consequence of which was ending production of some good-quality road component lines (Rival 7000 and New Success; the cartridge-bearing hubs were fantastic), of which I was a big fan at the time, and therefore also a disappointed one.

David

Rob Sallnow

DavidBelcher wrote:

olr1 wrote:

Hmm, called Euclid? or something?

I recall it was a bit poo, rather than not-being-used-cos-its-not-shimano.

Not popular as it was over-engineered (like all the Campag MTB stuff) and much heavier as a result. By the time the re-designed, lightened Record OR group appeared, the market had shifted firmly to the Shimano camp
David

Indeed it was...quite a few things were being overengineered in the late 80s by Campag...things like SGR pedals, Delta brakes and the Electa saddle . When Euclid first came out too much thought had gone in to it to make things adjustable....you only need look at the catalogue pages dealing with the brake levers to see that.





perhaps a Shimano fan has pictures of the levers these were up against .

Eventually Campag lightened everything up and the Record OR thumbshifters were the lightest you could buy anywhere despite running on ball bearings rather than bushes....but let's face it, buyers wanted stuff that was covered in purple anodising.

gundersen

aracer wrote:

Well the slant-parallelogram was a Suntour invention (protected by patent - Shimano only started using it when that patent expired in 1984), and Campag had indexing in 1950.

Don't forget Sachs had gearlevers on the brakelevers back in the 70's

Earthbound

I've been riding for 30 years most often on a budget. In the early days I had mongrel collections of equipment Sun Tour and SR and Campag Gran Sport. The Sun Tour gear mechs were excellent.

I've had Shimano on my road bikes in the past but my current road bikes are Campag Veloce and Record Carbon. I've just bought a Specialized Tricross with Shimano mechs and STIs purely as an off the shelf commuter bike and I wish I hadn't. I don't like feel of the STI levers and I don't like the gear shifting.
I also have an old Dawes Sardar with Shimano kit and find that the transmission wears out much quicker than Campag and Shimano chain seem to rust after about 30 minutes riding !?!? So the longevity of my new commuter steed is already worrying me, shouldn't have bought, I bought it cos it was cheap.

2 years ago I bought the ultimate 'snob steed' Colnago with Campag. It cost as much as the first 3 cars I owned added together but when I went out for the first early season ride when I was fat and unfit (still am) it was a revelation. The engineering on Record stuff is ultra precision.

It's a bit of an urban myth that Campag is inaccesably expensive anyways - Veloce is excellent value for money, bit more than 105, bit less than Ultegra, better than both of them. In my experience Campag stuff lasts longer so the cost amortizes over time anyways.

You "get what you pay for" and Campag's worth every penny, better functioning, more reliable, longer lasting, easier to maintain. And it's cool, Shimano ain't.

DavidBelcher

Rob Sallnow wrote:

Indeed it was...quite a few things were being overengineered in the late 80s by Campag...things like SGR pedals, Delta brakes and the Electa saddle .
Eventually Campag lightened everything up and the Record OR thumbshifters were the lightest you could buy anywhere despite running on ball bearings rather than bushes....but let's face it, buyers wanted stuff that was covered in purple anodising.

Electa saddle? That was the "inflatable" one, wasn't it? As for the comments on purple anodising, very true - when I first got properly interested in road bikes, garish stuff - from bottle cages through bar ends to jockey wheels - med to be the order of the day for MTB fans! Anyone wishing to indulge in the nostalgic days of rigid MTBs with 1" threaded headsets, Cook Bros. cranks, Girvin FlexStems, etc., etc. might like to pay a visit to www.retrobike.co.uk, where there's a sizeable contingent of fans of "old school" bikes and parts.

David

olr1

"And it's cool, Shimano ain't."

Oh, thanks for that.

Apart from being rubbish, if you have to tell us it's cool, then it's not.

There are some things that Campag do better than Shimano, there are equally as many things that Shimano do better than Campag, but a fundamental difference between the two user groups is that Shimano users don't generally feel the need to tell us all how great they are based on a choice of groupset........