1st year of winter training!!! HELP!!!
Felix-da-house-mouse
Posts: 801
Hi, i am just about to start my winter training but i dont have a clue what i should and shouldn't be doing, any help/advice/tips you can give will be greatly appreciatred, i need to work on speed which i know will come when i get "cycling legs" but what can i be doing to help it along? what speed should i be doing on the flat for training? etc
cheers
Grant
cheers
Grant
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i'd have suggested a few searches before posting this.
in a nut shell:
join a club.
steady miles - 2-3+ hours per ride if you can 3-4 times per week @ 60-75% mhr.
core stability stuff in the gym on the other days.
you need to be more specific with your query though. what the hell are you training for?Only the meek get pinched. The bold survive.0 -
The conventional approach is to concentrate on long steady rides (3+ hrs @ <80% max heart rate) through the first part of the winter to get a base fitness that you can build on as the new season approaches with some more intensive work (the dreaded "intervals" you'll see oft quoted in the "Training" section of this forum).
If you are planning to race next season, I'd suggest you start including 2 interval sessions per week into your training 8-12 weeks before your first event. How long and hard these need to be will depend on what you are training for and how fit you are already. More / better advice in the training forum.
If you start doing intensive training too soon in the season, you risk being completely wasted by the time your first event comes round.0 -
well i want to take part in tt's and road race's, maybe its a bit too early for road races but at least tackle a few tt's.0
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If you do the right training, no reason why you can't ride entry level road races in your first season, although I agree that speed and fitness does build even more over several seasons if you stick at it.
I actually find riding road races benefits my TT form (rather than the other way round) - there are slightly different requirements to do well at each discipline - road races tend to require the ability to make repeated hard efforts as the speed changes (when someone goes off the front or out of corners for instance) whereas TT's require a more constant effort and an ability to focus on maintaining your speed.
The advice to join a club whilst not essential, you may find riding with others very beneficial in terms of bike handling and not getting sick of solo rides. If you struggle with self-motivation (like me) riding in a local club "chain gang" in the build up to the early season is a real bonus - you have to ride at the pace of the fastest rider (which is never me! :roll: ).0 -
Im in the same boat. First 10 TT planned for April. Some good comments so thanks!0
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yeah i'm a member of the local cycling club but never managed to get out for a "training ride"0
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Im another one in the "first TT early next season club". Fortunatley for me I work with a guy who used to ride at a very respectable amateur level so I a constant stream of advice from him.
His view is base miles in OCT/Nov, start mixing it up a little in Dec (maybe hill work one session per week etc), allow for the inevitable xmas break and then review where you are in Jan, keeping in mind that the distances and speeds have to go up from Jan onwards.
After saying that the best piece of advice he gave me was that if youre not enjoying it, change it. After all its our pasttime not our job!0 -
I'm also hoping to do my first TT around April. As well as my first CAT 4 races. I got the best part of a couple of thouasand miles last season which I hope to build on.A
After a month or so off (about three or four rides) I'm now focusing on getting down to the gym until december. My workout might need tweaking, as I have one day for legs, chest and arms one day and back on the third day. I'm trying to get intervals in on the Tuesdays and Thursdays. I also plan to get back to the group rides on Sundays. Plus a commute to work 17 miles each way a couple of days a week. I cycled in this morning at 18.5mph so I try and keep the speed up. I still feel I need to increase my top end considerably before I enter my first TT.
Come December January I will stop increasing the weight and maintain and begin to lower my bodyfat while hopefully keeping the bit of extra muscle for next year which will inevitably be atrophied early on anyway.
How does my current program sound? Does anyone know of any good weight routine workouts. And am I doing too much too early?0 -
RyanBrook wrote:I'm also hoping to do my first TT around April. As well as my first CAT 4 races. I got the best part of a couple of thouasand miles last season which I hope to build on.A
I still feel I need to increase my top end considerably before I enter my first TT.
Why? Are you hoping to win the first one you enter?
Seriously, just get stuck in, after all 2k miles in last season will be a great start, and a steady winter will keep you going. The best way of getting speed into your legs is to ride TT's, as unless you're lucky/talented/superhuman etc etc then you'll never go as hard in training as you do in a race. So focus on specific races in which you want to do well, and plan to enter races building up to it as training. TT season starts in March so if you have been doing intervals from Jan, and lets say your first "target" race is in May, then you have 2 months of TT's which will have a noticeable effect, even just by riding one club 10 a week. Good Luck!0 -
I'm just a bit worried about getting a rubbish time first time out and losing the faith. I take your points though. Do you think that I should wait until January before starting the interval training then?0
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The leaves haven't fallen of the trees yet and people are planning for next year? Full marks for enthusiasm but now's the time to enjoy the riding for the sake of it, no need to follow a training plan until next year, don't start following a masterplan already. Just ride and smile.
Besides, in a TT you won't be dropped and very few race for the win, it's a solo thing so just have a nice winter and you'll get faster and faster in the year. Keep it fun, because if you take it too seriously you'll find it's unrewarding.0 -
I'm hoping to do the Marmotte to so I figured I'd better start early0
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RyanBrook wrote:I'm also hoping to do my first TT around April. As well as my first CAT 4 races. I got the best part of a couple of thouasand miles last season which I hope to build on.A
After a month or so off (about three or four rides) I'm now focusing on getting down to the gym until december. My workout might need tweaking, as I have one day for legs, chest and arms one day and back on the third day.
[snip]
How does my current program sound? Does anyone know of any good weight routine workouts. And am I doing too much too early?
Hi Ryan
Instead of doing the gym sessions you would be much better off doing strength work on the bike. Strength will help you with sprinting, but it won't help you with other aspects of cycling. So instead of going to the gym, learn to handle the bike in a sprint and develop the strength to sprint fast.
In place of your gym workouts do the following:
Ride along a stretch of road using the inner 39 or 42 ring at about 20 -25 kph then do five 10 second sprints. Keep your hands on the drops, up-shift one cog and leap out of the saddle and sprint fairly hard (but not all out) for 10 secs. Recover for a few minutes and repeat for a total of 5 times. Concentrate on controlling the bike and pedalling quickly rather than going fast.
Then ride in the big ring at about 30 kph and then repeat the above workout but his time go as hard as you can for 10 secs. Only upshift one cog but really jump out of the saddle and sprint all out aiming to get the pedals spinning at 100 rpm or more at the end of the sprint.
Finally, ride along at about 15kph holding the tops of the handle bars, shift to your top gear and pedal as hard as you can for just five pedal strokes for each leg, then recover in an easy gear and spin gently for a few minutes. Repeat for a total of five.
Take 10 to 15 minutes to ride easy spinning in a low gear to cool down. If you get any knee pain whilst you are doing these workouts, ease off or stop. But these workouts will be of more benefit than going to the gym and your legs will feel pretty sore after doing them. You'll also give your arms and core muscles a good workout as well from grabbing the bars while you are out of the saddle.
Being able to sprint over short distances will really help you stick with the bunch in a cat 4 race. If you can stick with the bunch that's half the battle. But if you can't get back on after the bunch speeds up you'll just be dropped.
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I would say yes - intervals should be hard enough that they leave you feeling absolutely wasted - if you start doing them too early before you actually need the fitness, you will probably be totally sick of them by January.RyanBrook wrote:Do you think that I should wait until January before starting the interval training then?
If you are planning on doing the Marmotte next year, I'd concentrate on doing steady 3-4 hour rides for now to get a base endurance. Again, I'd leave racking up really long rides (5+ hours) until the weather improves in the early spring otherwise you risk getting jaded when it comes time for the serious training to start.0 -
RyanBrook wrote:I'm hoping to do the Marmotte to so I figured I'd better start early
Hi Ryan
You are certainly right to start "thinking" about your training for next year, but it's a bit soon to actually start "winter training". If you are aiming to start doing races and TTs at the beginning of April then probably the end of November or beginning of December is a better time to actually start the training for the goals you have for the year ahead. You might also want to consider doing an earlier sportive than the Marmotte to prepare you for riding in a mass event. Perhaps the 75k or 140k Tour of Flanders sportive for example on 5 April 2008. In the meantime keep riding and get out as much as you can before the clocks go back at the end of the month. Then in November plan you year ahead, and if you haven't already, join a club to learn the art of group riding which is an absolute essential for a ride like the Marmotte. I'd also suggest you take a read of the "Unofficial South Wales Climb" thread on this forum and go and ride some of those climbs. Not so much for the climbs but to practise descending at speed. Because the Marmotte descents are scary.
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Cheers for the advice guys, The sprint workout might give me an excuse to pack in the £30 per month Gym membership. I've descened most of the marmotte climbs (opposite way to the marmotte) but I'd be the first to admit my descending skills need a lot of work.
The TT's should be easy enough to sort out through my local club but as far as I know they only do TT's so I'm not 100% sure how to go about entering the CAT 4 races. I take it I just register with British cycling, sign up to the event, pay on the day and compete?0 -
You can ride any BC race with a "day licence" (around £10), but if you plan to ride a few, you may be better applying for a full race licence (around £60). Perhaps, give it a go, see if it's for you, then get a full licence if you are going to ride a few.RyanBrook wrote:I take it I just register with British cycling, sign up to the event, pay on the day and compete?
You can apply for a licence either as a member of a BC affiliated club or as a "private member".
You can download race entry forms from BC website - closing date is usually 3 weeks before the race, but you can enter most races on the line as well. Be aware that if it's a popular event, you may need to get there early to bag a place (it's rare that everyone that enters in advance actually turns up to ride).0 -
How patronising!!There's people out there that want to get fitter. Perhaps they only just got into cycling this summer and want to start racing in March. Why should they just idle around until you say its time to get serious :xKléber wrote:The leaves haven't fallen of the trees yet and people are planning for next year? Full marks for enthusiasm but now's the time to enjoy the riding for the sake of it, no need to follow a training plan until next year, don't start following a masterplan already. Just ride and smile.
Besides, in a TT you won't be dropped and very few race for the win, it's a solo thing so just have a nice winter and you'll get faster and faster in the year. Keep it fun, because if !!you take it too seriously you'll find it's unrewarding.0 -
Your reaction to Kleber is interesting, Toks. I found the above bold statement of fact brought a chuckle. The inevitability of what will happen if you take your cycling too seriously............ there's absolutely no chance that maybe, just possibly, there might be an example or two of people finding their cycling rewarding because they take it seriously?Kléber wrote:Keep it fun, because if you take it too seriously you'll find it's unrewarding.
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Toks wrote:
How patronising!!There's people out there that want to get fitter. Perhaps they only just got into cycling this summer and want to start racing in March. Why should they just idle around until you say its time to get serious :xKléber wrote:The leaves haven't fallen of the trees yet and people are planning for next year? Full marks for enthusiasm but now's the time to enjoy the riding for the sake of it, no need to follow a training plan until next year, don't start following a masterplan already. Just ride and smile.
Besides, in a TT you won't be dropped and very few race for the win, it's a solo thing so just have a nice winter and you'll get faster and faster in the year. Keep it fun, because if !!you take it too seriously you'll find it's unrewarding.
like the person who made this topic 1ST YEAR WINTER TRAINING HELP!!! i.e ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:0 -
My comments went down the wrong way. I don't think I was saying stay indoors and forget cycling?
By all means get fitter, but aim for fitness and fun now, don't think too much about racing in 2008 today. Devising a master plan now is serious stuff, even many pros who want to storm Milan - San Remo are having a rest now!
I'd suggest enjoy riding for the sake of it, not as a means to an end. Have some serious fun and keep fit, but don't worry too much about structuring your training now for a race that's six months away, that's all.0 -
...but isn't structured training actually part of the fun?
And have we not just had our 'fun' during the long summer months of cycling & racing?
Isn't this the time of year to start getting back to basics and building your strength and endurance in preparation for next year?0 -
hi, I just bought the cycling weekly health and fitness guide to winter riding. You can only get it in WHSmith. It seems to have quite a lot of good information on how to continue cycling through the winter months and has a number of training plans that you may find useful. I started cycling in April and it certainly seems to answer many of the questions which I have now that i'm looking forward to a winter of cycling. HTH
hey, I went out last night in the dark and rain! how hard core am I???? I'm hi-vis'd up to the eyeballs, lit up like blackpool illuminations and ASSERTIVE! It was really enjoyable. I think I may leave it til 7pm next time and really miss the traffic.0 -
Maybe I'm speaking from my (bad) experience, but a ride to enjoy the fresh air, the speed and the autumn colours right now is a lot more pleasurable than trying to stick to a pre-determined HR zone or a average wattage during a session, this kind of riding borders on work, it feels like you're a slave to the handlebar display at times! After doing this for months, it reduces the fun, and yes it is effective but I think you can start the work element a little bit later, that's all.0
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Kléber wrote:Maybe I'm speaking from my (bad) experience, but a ride to enjoy the fresh air, the speed and the autumn colours right now is a lot more pleasurable than trying to stick to a pre-determined HR zone or a average wattage during a session, this kind of riding borders on work, it feels like you're a slave to the handlebar display at times! After doing this for months, it reduces the fun, and yes it is effective but I think you can start the work element a little bit later, that's all.
I can see both sides of this - I'm really enjoying getting out on my bike at the moment, especially as the weather is so good. Going into a new season brings about a whole series of "firsts" for me - using lights, riding in the dark, muddy roads, steamy breathing etc. However, I've never had a training plan before - well, not a cycling one - so that's exciting to me as well. Even though I'm really enjoying every minute, in the back of my head I'm thinking about the Wild Wales challenge next year and the etape the year after. Anyway, my flaming blackburn delphi seems to have stopped working so all of these miles are not recorded and I haven't a clue what speed I'm doing. It feels good though. x0 -
I would like advice on Etape training. I commute about 120 miles per week and do a small ride on a Saturday of 30 miles staying at 60-80% of max HR.
Sundays I am building up my hours in the saddle and taking in as many large climbs as possible.
Anything here I should be changing?0 -
Build up over the winter and aim for 4-5 hour rides each weekend by spring. Then think about doing this on Saturday and Sunday from time to time. Once the evenings get lighter, do some shorter speed work, like a one hour ride at full speed, maybe time yourself and aim to beat the time for the circuit each outing.0
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I bought a Chris charmichael DVD for use on the Turbo. Decided to get the one called Cycling for Fitness. Very good, plan on using this to get my fitness up then invest in the Time Trialing DVD for proper training.
I wondered what to do in winter as I didnt want to go hammer and tongs straight away.
Felix may be worth having a look at this DVD for keeping your legs spinning without going overboard. I also find it good to have some motivation on the Turbo and this DVD has really helped!0 -
Perhaps he's quite serious about being competitive. Unlike the Pro's i don't think the OP has raced from March to Oct with training hours of upto 30hours perweek. I don't think any coach would suggest he go out and hammer himself in every ride. Some short moderely intensive rides mixed with 1 or 2 endurace/conversation pace rides is perhaps the way to go if you're brand new to it all but want to 'raise your game'.Kléber wrote:Devising a master plan now is serious stuff, even many pros who want to storm Milan - San Remo are having a rest now!
The OP can graudually notch up his fitness levels month by month keeping things fun but serious when it needs to be. In my experienced there can definitley be a snotty 'now's the time to go very easy' ethos from some seasoned competitive riders who know when exactly to build there fitness levels.0 -
Toks wrote:
Perhaps he's quite serious about being competitive. Unlike the Pro's i don't think the OP has raced from March to Oct with training hours of upto 30hours perweek. I don't think any coach would suggest he go out and hammer himself in every ride. Some short moderely intensive rides mixed with 1 or 2 endurace/conversation pace rides is perhaps the way to go if you're brand new to it all but want to 'raise your game'.Kléber wrote:Devising a master plan now is serious stuff, even many pros who want to storm Milan - San Remo are having a rest now!
The OP can graudually notch up his fitness levels month by month keeping things fun but serious when it needs to be. In my experienced there can definitley be a snotty 'now's the time to go very easy' ethos from some seasoned competitive riders who know when exactly to build there fitness levels.
The bit I've bolded is one of the truest things you've ever written on here. I remember my first two seasons of having this drilled into me, but I was too enthusiastic and too keen to listen. Now after two full seasons I can sort of see what they mean NOW. It just really anoys me when I see seasoned riders telling newbies to take it easy.
I'll be on the track on Wednesday (outdoor, winter round and round sessions) and all I'll hear is 'take it easy',' it's only October', 'you'll be fecked by March.' What's the point of, you've got to have hard sessions even this time of year imo.0
