La Marmotte

Mark Alexander

has anyone done this or anything like it for charity

Ed in Vercors

Mark, there has been some very useful info here but I will add the following practical advise for you & others for the event day itself. First of all get your entry in early as this with determine your start position gridding. Entries open in January. Previous times are usually taken into consideration.

Depending on your experience you should be comfortable riding and particularly descending at speed in group. As mentioned already one of the other cyclosportives should give you some confidence and also give you the opportunity to practise a feeding/drink strategy. There are several events in the region to help with this but give yourself time to recuperate before the Marmotte.

Check the local weather forecast in the Dauphiné newspaper or on the Tourist Office window in Bourg d’Oisans or in Alpe d’Huez. These are quite accurate & will help determine what to wear or carry with you.

The first section of the ride is hectic with so many riders (4,000+) but on closed roads. Don't get carried away early on. The first climb to the Glandon is hard & long. See photos on Gallery. If you know your limits & are familiar with using a pulse watch then this is invaluable to discipline yourself at keeping your enthusiasm under control.

The 1st feed is on the Glandon itself. The drop down is very long, narrow in places, be careful. This section is worth pre riding. Once down in the Maurienne valley the profile is flat so get in a group, recover and stay there. Eat & drink. This section is about 25km on a main road.

Coming into St Michel de Maurienne the course turns right & up the Col de Telegraph. My fave part of the course. This is a steady climb but still a challenge. There is a water feed station close to the top, before the road heads down into Valloire. Just out of the village there is a larger feed station. Fill up here the Galibier looms ahead. The feed stations can be quite a scrum. One trick I use is to carry Isostar tablets in foil. (Decathlon sell them by the tube) Just as I approach a feed I unscrew a bottle, drop in 3 tablets then use the water taps at the feed station & carry on. I can do this procedure in about 20 seconds without unclipping & it saves a lot of time & frustration.

. From here it is all uphill on the Galibier. This is a monster climb 2645m altitude. Give it respect. Gearing has already been discussed so I will not add further. However you should be able to climb for long periods, obviously! It may be very hot by this time of day so take advantage of the water station around Plan Lachat just before it gets very steep. I usually take my helmet off here for comfort, it helps keep cool & nobody will say anything at this point. Take your time and get into a suitable pace, everyone will be suffering. If you have friends/family then this is where they should be a few km's before the summit. It can get emotional here & support will help you focus. The French army provide water at the top of the Galibier but nothing else, be prepared for this. It caught me out this year I was hoping for coke!

Put on a gilet for the descend down + extra clothing depending on the weather. You have a 1,000m drop in altitude very quickly. This is where your descending skills especially when you are kn*ckered play their part. Good quality tyres also inspire reassurance. For alpine roads I would recommend Conti GP 4000s or similar, 23mm. The roads here are a mix of patches, subsidance etc. Our group this year rode this part of the course the day before & they said it helped a great deal. It gives you a chance to experience the tunnels. The roads are still open to traffic & coming down from the Col du Lautaret to La Grave is often very windy.

Again, from here you need to get in a group to conserve energy so draft as much as possible. This section also provides you with the chance to eat & drink. Nearing the lake/barrage take off any extra clothing while riding. You should be practised in this technique. There is still some climbing to do after the dam as you head back towards Bourg'. There is about 5km's of flat before the bottom of the final climb. Keep in a group & drink, again don't get carried away.

At the new roundabout/layby there is a feed station. Use it! however good you may feel. Alpe d'Huez is always very tough but an experience not to be missed. Break the hill down by counting off the bends or use the churches as reference points. On Marmotte day, the Alpe is like a battlefield so be mentally & physically prepared for this challenge. Tempratures can soar in July, I was there for the mtb marathon w.cup this summer & it was 41°c.

The Marmotte is without doubt an amazing experience & something all riders should complete once in a lifetime. I managed to finish about 50th just under 7 hours this season but will probably be just providing support to riders next year. There is a report on the Blog, see link. Hope this helps, good luck.

fatrat

I rode in 2004 with Phil at gastrobiking (www.gastrobiking.com). Recommended.

knedlicky

Ed, you give very good advice, even seemingly little but very important things like getting in a group when in the Maurienne valley and to recover, stay there and eat and drink then. And similarly later on the way to Bourg (though I found groups then, wanted everyone to do their fair share of work at the front).

I’m also glad you mention being ‘comfortable riding and particularly descending at speed in group’, because, though you are not the first to do so recently in this forum, it is one of my warnings about taking part in a sportive. I’d say 20% of riders in a large sportive don’t know how to behave in a group or know how to safely but speedily descend. For a novice at these sort of events, especially if they’ve never ridden as part of a club, your advice is invaluable.

I’d like to comment on some other points:

Ed in Vercors wrote:

First of all get your entry in early as this with determine your start position gridding.

Although I might be wrong, my impression (in year 2000) was that nearly all foreigners were put in the last starting blocks, together with very late French entries, so timing of entry from abroad makes no difference.

Ed in Vercors wrote:

The first section of the ride is hectic with so many riders (4,000+) but on closed roads.

My experience wasn’t that the roads were fully closed. Particularly on the first ascent (between the lake at Allemond and the lake higher up, so up to the tree line), there were many cars narrowing the road even more. A few were oncoming traffic but most were accompanying riders, especially the Dutch entrants.

Ed in Vercors wrote:

Don't get carried away early on. The first climb to the Glandon is hard & long.

It’s on the lower parts of the first ascent you find the slower riders falling back and ‘blocking’ your path. For this reason, I’d actually suggest riding fairly hard until Allemond, in order to reduce the number of slower riders there might be in front of you.

Ed in Vercors wrote:

One trick I use is to carry Isostar tablets in foil. (Decathlon sell them by the tube) Just as I approach a feed I unscrew a bottle, drop in 3 tablets then use the water taps at the feed station & carry on. I can do this procedure in about 20 seconds …

I’m not sure that no solid food and the very short stop and is appropriate advice for everyone, i.e. the typical sportive entrant.

Ed in Vercors wrote:

Galibier … Put on a gilet for the descend down + extra clothing depending on the weather.

I actually found the extra clothing was mainly necessary at the beginning, as cold at that time in the morning, and for the first descent into the Maurienne valley. So what’s necessary clearly depends on the weather that day.
When I did the Marmotte, I took a mini-handlebar bag for extra clothing, but I’ve also used a musette in other dicey-weather sportives.

Ed in Vercors

In reply to the above discussion, I would respond with the following comments

1. I found this not the case in my experience, especially this year. If you have a race licence & have a previous event(s) history then notify them of it. I don't use the online system for the organisation. Enter by post with copies of your details.

2. Yes there are only closed roads as far as about Vaujany just past the barrage/lake.

3. This really depends on your experience. I started on the 2nd row of the first group this year & it was still very hectic. This can be intimidating for some. The climb will naturally thin out riders. I still think it best to ride within your abilities for the Glandon & save yourself for later.

4. I have not suggested consuming no solid fuel. I carry all such items with me. Don't rely on what is provided, use what you are familiar with. I went through about 6 gels & 4 or 5 energy bars on the day.

5. As I suggested check the weather forecast at the Tourist Offices. By the time you have reached the first descent it would be about 9:30 (or later) so should have warmed up by then. Overdressing early on is an issue as it will all have to come when climbing the Glandon. The problem arises waiting at the start. That is when family/friends can help. My team mate wore a bin liner which he ripped off at the start & gave to a spectator to dispose of. I put a gilet on before descending off the Galibier but actually found that was not required this year. However, 48hrs previously there had been fresh snow at this point.

Thanks for the feedback.

fatrat

I was going to mention the bin liner thing. This is especially good if you are staying at Alp D'Huez. Wear the bin liner to descend in the morning and bin it when you set off.

Mark Alexander

Pure genius question, which is best, black or green.
surely if it's green you can 're-cycle' youself :oops:

Mark Alexander

I thought of something that I can't find mentioned. If the temp drops and the weather can vary too. What about thinning air? Is there something to think about when it comes to altitude or am I getting a little too involved. The alps I suppose are a lot higher than Cardiff!! :shock:

Cardiff is at sea level and the roads on the Brecon beacons get to about 2000ft,
the lowest piont at the beginning is 2300 ft and goes to over 5000ft. the difference must have some effect on breathing.

Ric_Stern/RST

Mark Alexander wrote:

I thought of something that I can't find mentioned. If the temp drops and the weather can vary too. What about thinning air? Is there something to think about when it comes to altitude or am I getting a little too involved. The alps I suppose are a lot higher than Cardiff!! :shock:

Cardiff is at sea level and the roads on the Brecon beacons get to about 2000ft,
the lowest piont at the beginning is 2300 ft and goes to over 5000ft. the difference must have some effect on breathing.

Your power is reduced as the partial pressure decreases

ric

Mark Alexander

that's cheered me up no end Cheers Ric.
I've been checking the whol route in google earth
:shock: :? :shock: :? :shock: :? :shock:

Ed in Vercors

With the nordic/biathlon ski teams we would regularly train for several weeks at a time at 3,000m+. So I have a fair amount of practical experience on altitude training. Some of the following you may want to consider.

Riding at high altitudes does not have the same effect on everyone but you won’t know it until you get there. Although the Marmotte peaks on the Galibier at 2645m/7935ft you are not (hopefully) going to be hanging around there too long for this to be of any serious influence. The length of the gradients is the major challenge. The Maurienne valley is at around 500m & Bourg d’Oisans 700m.

Despite this where you stay & ride before the event can make a difference. Current thinking encourages staying high, training low. For most riders coming to the Marmotte they will not have the time or resources to do this.

When arriving at altitude, Vo2 will decrease 3-4% over 1600m, haematocrit levels decrease and there is an increase in lactic acid production which lowers lactate threshold. These symptoms are experienced within the first 48hrs. This effects everybody to some degree. After about 4 days your body begins to adjust to the altitude.

Your coping strategy to deal with these changes may include arriving the day before and racing the next day. Or, staying lower down and riding at steadily increasing altitudes as time permits. I have found that staying at Alpe d’Huez (1850m) for a short period just before the Marmotte and riding lower down, increases most riders tolerance to the effects of the altitude for this particular event. However, some still experience symptoms of sleep loss, nausea and general lethargy if coming from the UK.

Most Pro road teams have training periods in high altitude venues, although this is more likely to recce race courses, rather than for specific acclimatisation. Several high profile riders have had the facility to train for long periods at altitude such as on top of Tenerife, or by using hypobaric chambers. Diet, hydrating and supplementation are probably more relevant considerations to made for most riders in their planning.

As previously mentioned on this topic, races such as Mègeve – Mt Blanc prior to the Marmotte will give most riders the opportunity to learn for themselves what to expect and raise their confidence in such alpine sportives. The timescale between the two events gives the rider enough time to recover and prepare for the more challenging ride of the Marmotte.

Brixtonfixed

I did the 07 Marmotte. Agree with much of what has been said. One thing that helped me was knowing the profile and having a computer with an altimeter. There's nothing worse for morale that thinking you're nearly there when you're not. Seeing 1100m on the clock and knowing that the Galibier was 2645 was depressing but at least I knew what the challenge was.

The other thing I'd add is about descending. By all means cane it off the cols but watch out for the crazy Dutchmen who might take you out -- another thing I noticed was that after every col there were a load of guys with punctures, presumably having overheated their rims with too much braking. Something worth avoiding.

Preparing mentally for AdH is key too. It's a huge effort to have to do 1100m of steep climbing after you've already ridden 160k of major alpine climbs. For me, the first 10 hairpins were sheer purgatory, but once the village came into view it all came together.

I got gold for my age group and had a fantastic, unforgettable day. Just do lots of miles in preparation, with as much interval/hill work as you can fit in. And be aware that this is a serious physical challenge... and you'll have a great time. Good luck!

Ken Night

If it's any help Mark, the whole week in Bourg is a bike fest, and worth experiencing-you don't have to do the full week, but if you sign up for it you get a place in the first starting pen, with a green number-see the pic below

Starting with the Vaujany sportif on Sunday, Prix de Grand Rousses on the Wednesday, Marmotte on Sat, Grimpe Alpe on Sunday.

If I can add my 2 1/2p worth of practical advice


-it was snowing at the top of the Galibier a couple of weeks beforehand this year, and as it was wet snow and 0 C, the descent was very very painful. It also sleeted on the Prix de Grande Rousses. Look at the weather forcast (in the tourist office on the main road in Bourg)
-only experience will help you decide what kit to take on the day
-ditto, food and drink. What works for me, may not work for you
-getting in a group in the Maurienne Valley is v impt-as there is usually a headwind (I got dropped this year and reckon I lost 10 mins on the group I had been with)
-ditto descending the Lauteret
-there was more than water at the top of the Galibier
-nothing trains you for 100m+, than 100m+
-Brits generally struggle on the length of the climbs, inexperience+taking it too hard to start with, heat and altitude. GET EXPERIENCE
-other French Sportifs like the Dauphine in May (Grenoble so not too far away from Bourg) are ideal, good standard, cheap to enter, no big hype

It was a fantastic day out with the Dutch/Belgian clubs very well organised, with their own feed stops and supporters handing out fresh bottles/personlised musettes

I'd set it as a goal for the year, and though I think I'd peaked around three weeks before (how would I know?) I was still very pleased to be half an hour inside gold in my age group.

In spite of the accidents,over the last couple of years, the standard of riding is good, better than most UK sportifs, and certainly better than on the Etape. The most dangerous corners are marshalled.

Lastly, I may be able to offer accommodation/support over the week. PM me if interested

Here you go...

Ken Night

If you haven't already read it, I and others have been inspired by this
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=4565

Here is a nice pic of the Galibier descent-I would guess it's taken around 500m from the top

Mark Alexander

I have thought of something. I have travel insurance for myself but does anyone get separate cover for their bike?

flattythehurdler

Many travel insurances specifically outrule covering sporting events, so check the small print. I always buy an extra sports specific policy to be safe, usually abou £15 for a specific event covering a week's travel etc.

Monty Dog

For those looking for a good intermediate training event for La Marmotte, look at the Tilff-Bastogne-Tilff sportive at the end of the May in the Belgian Ardennes - easily accessible for a weekend from the UK, 220km and over 3500m of climbing will give you some good climbing practise - although not hugely long climbs, but steeper and they just keep coming.

Bronzie

Monty Dog wrote:

look at the Tilff-Bastogne-Tilff sportive at the end of the May in the Belgian Ardennes

I did this this year - most of the same route as the Liege-Bastogne-Liege Protour event -must say I was a bit disapointed with it, partly because it rained most of the day and I got freezing cold, but mainly because it was more of an audax than a sportive - no mass start, no timing and a bizarre detour down a dirt track in the woods where loads of people punctured. Still a buzz to climb the Col de la Redoute etc, but not the same experience as riding it timed.

Don't think it would necessarily be a good warm-up for the Marmotte as the climbs were about 4km max and not very steep.

Mark Alexander

Brixtonfixed wrote:

The other thing I'd add is about descending. By all means cane it off the cols but watch out for the crazy Dutchmen who might take you out -- another thing I noticed was that after every col there were a load of guys with punctures, presumably having overheated their rims with too much braking. Something worth avoiding.

I've been meaning to ask, How do we protect against puncturing like this, you have to break at some point.

oldwelshman

Hi Mark.
You can reduce the chances of puncture from temperature by reducing the pressure in your tyres before the ride.
As you brake more, the rims heat and increase the pressure in the tyres.
It is better you learn to descend properly
I had about 110 psi in my tyres for fondo in Italy and at top of one climb it was 39 degree centigrade, I did not see many punctures, but all the guys I saw were very good going down hill, though I can understand how it might happen if you get stuck in a large group of nodders

oldwelshman

by the way, are you definately riding this?

Mark Alexander

I am

popette

Ken Night wrote:

If you haven't already read it, I and others have been inspired by this
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=4565

What a great read! Thanks for posting the link Ken,
What a state he looks when he's lying on the floor staring into space!

popette

Mark,
Have a look on here - http://www.cyclefilm.com/trilogy.html - it might be something that you're interested in if you want to have a look at what you're facing. I've never actually seen one of these videos so can't comment on how good they are but I've just pre-ordered the one for the Etape - my thinking being that the more information I have about what I'm going to face, the better prepared I'll be.

richa

Entry for La Marmotte is now open :twisted:

clanton

Have entered! :shock:
Now need to have a lie down. Suddenly very scared!

Mark Alexander

clanton wrote:

Have entered! :shock:
Now need to have a lie down. Suddenly very scared!

The downpayment went through two days ago so I'm on board. no turning back As the other two in m group went wit a set tour we are going with Graham baxter Tours to make it one less thing to think about. Anyone want to share a room and save a single person suplement is welcome!! let me know.

clanton

Thanks for offer but have sorted accomodation already. Good luck for your ride!

Mark Alexander

you to. if you know anyone, be sure to let me know!

Doom

Mark Alexander wrote:

you to. if you know anyone, be sure to let me know!

Try these guys. No single supplement very nice people. Been on thier holidays before and doing Marmotte trip with them www.alpcycles.com/marmotte.htm