RLJ - London commuters especially

iainment

dondare wrote:

It's not about safety, or fun, or boredom, or even legaliity. It's about the way cyclists are perceived and treated. Antisocial and anarchic behaviour by cyclists leads to calls for cycling to be regulated in the same way that motoring is regulated; with demands that cyclists must be tested, licenced, registered, taxed and insured; or else banned from the roads altogether. Also cyclists get squeezed into the gutter, endangered, cut up, obstructed and even assulted by frustrated motorists who do not see cyclists as legitimate road users because they see so many who don't act as if they are.

Yawn.

:twisted:

BTW are you a Park Keeper?

TheFoolio888

I'm totally against RLJing...I think the culprits do it because they think they have the right to do whatever they like and would be just as bad car drivers...

I admit to going past (not through) a red light to get to the front of the traffic. I would be allowed to do it if there was a green box painted there, so why not on all junctions?...tenuous I know. But I am EXTREMELY careful to look out for peds crossing the road at the lights, plus I wouldn't got through a pedestrian crossing that was just that, rather than a junction.

iainment

TheFoolio888 wrote:

I'm totally against RLJing...I think the culprits do it because they think they have the right to do whatever they like and would be just as bad car drivers...

I admit to going past (not through) a red light to get to the front of the traffic. I would be allowed to do it if there was a green box painted there, so why not on all junctions?...tenuous I know. But I am EXTREMELY careful to look out for peds crossing the road at the lights, plus I wouldn't got through a pedestrian crossing that was just that, rather than a junction.

Technically you are a RLJer, welcome to our world.

:twisted:

TheFoolio888

iainment wrote:

TheFoolio888 wrote:

I admit to going past (not through) a red light to get to the front of the traffic. I would be allowed to do it if there was a green box painted there, so why not on all junctions?

Technically you are a RLJer, welcome to our world.

:twisted:

truuuuuuue....but I don't actually go though the junction. I'm only doing it for self preservation, so that I don't get caught up in the Monaco Grand Prix type rush whilst I'm trying to find my pedals. :oops:

snooks

As a pedestrian I like to kick RLJ's as they go past when I'm on a junction...much the same way that when I'm on my bike I like to kick cars who get too close...

Maybe if more pedestrians started kicking rljs off their bikes when they go in front of them red light jumping might stop....Give it a go it's really quite fun! :twisted:







Yes it's a joke, I don't rlj, I don't see the point...Saw a rlj almost get twated by a car, only the drivers reactions stopped the cyclist blending in with the tarmac, came to the conclusion that his miss, was way too close for me.

dondare

iainment wrote:

dondare wrote:

It's not about safety, or fun, or boredom, or even legaliity. It's about the way cyclists are perceived and treated. Antisocial and anarchic behaviour by cyclists leads to calls for cycling to be regulated in the same way that motoring is regulated; with demands that cyclists must be tested, licenced, registered, taxed and insured; or else banned from the roads altogether. Also cyclists get squeezed into the gutter, endangered, cut up, obstructed and even assulted by frustrated motorists who do not see cyclists as legitimate road users because they see so many who don't act as if they are.

Yawn.

:twisted:

BTW are you a Park Keeper?

Believe me, I get just as fed up reading your juvenile nonsense as you do reading my boring, sensible posts. No, I am not a park keeper.

hamboman

snooks wrote:

As a pedestrian I like to kick RLJ's as they go past when I'm on a junction...much the same way that when I'm on my bike I like to kick cars who get too close...

Maybe if more pedestrians started kicking rljs off their bikes when they go in front of them red light jumping might stop....Give it a go it's really quite fun! :twisted:

If anyone did that to me I would kick them back. A lot.







Yes it's a joke, I don't rlj, I don't see the point...Saw a rlj almost get twated by a car, only the drivers reactions stopped the cyclist blending in with the tarmac, came to the conclusion that his miss, was way too close for me.

snooks

hamboman wrote:

If anyone did that to me I would kick them back. A lot.

The idea came to me when I read about a cyclist/commuter who kicks cars if they come too close and endanger him/her...They are driving without due care and attention..cyclists who rlj are cycling without due care and attention...so what't the difference?...Devils avocate here

As a pedestrian I get pretty narked off (putting it kindly) when some twat nearly runs me over on a crossing after I've waited for the little green man.....So as a cyclist I afford others the courtesy I would like to receive.

You might not try to run me over (although you might now!! ) but the problem is that if I (as a cyclist) feel that duck wits are getting too close to me, imagine how a pedestrian with no experience of commuting would feel. I'm not saying that you personally run down pedestrians, but there are some who read this, that it might strike a chord with...a bit of consideration on all sides wouldn't go amiss.

Oh, and if you're going to rlj, at least have the decency to dissapear into the distance...It winds me up to see a rlj who I catch up and pass time and time again.If you're going to rlj, at least do it for a reason!!!
.

BentMikey

I think it would be very wrong to kick either a car or a bike in the circumstances you describe. It's bad karma for you - two wrongs don't make a right. Tell them off by all means, but kicking them is unjustifiable.

WyS

I see my sensible post was ignored.

twowheeledwriter

The suggestion to kick wrong-doers reminds me of my daughters (8 and 6) who take to kicking and hitting each other when one of them does something the other one doesn't like.

If you want to behave like a little girl, go right ahead, but don't expect to be treated like an adult if you start kicking out or getting arsey with rlj-ers. It's all a bit childish, and as bentmikey says, bad karma.

BentMikey

WyS wrote:

I see my sensible post was ignored.

I read it, I just didn't comment on it because I largely agree.

iainment

Oh, and if you're going to rlj, at least have the decency to dissapear into the distance...It winds me up to see a rlj who I catch up and pass time and time again.If you're going to rlj, at least do it for a reason!!! .[/quote]

The reason might be that they are slower than you and RLJing equalises the average speed.

:twisted:

Oddballcp

Well isn't it annoying when some speed merchant on a fast road bike blasts past you and then stops at the lights, so that you have to squeeze past them in order to go through. If people aren't prepared to risk running the reds, then they shouldn't keep overtaking those who are.

BentMikey

Oddballcp wrote:

Well isn't it annoying when some speed merchant on a fast road bike blasts past you and then stops at the lights, so that you have to squeeze past them in order to go through. If people aren't prepared to risk running the reds, then they shouldn't keep overtaking those who are.

That just doesn't work, because RLJing is illegal, anti-social, and selfish. You have to stop at the lights.

Oddballcp

BentMikey wrote:

Oddballcp wrote:

Well isn't it annoying when some speed merchant on a fast road bike blasts past you and then stops at the lights, so that you have to squeeze past them in order to go through. If people aren't prepared to risk running the reds, then they shouldn't keep overtaking those who are.

That just doesn't work, because RLJing is illegal, anti-social, and selfish. You have to stop at the lights.

Those things only matter if you give a damn.

WyS

Just ride how you want to ride, as long as it is safe for everyone concerned.

This holier than thou attitude is retarded.

BentMikey

Are you suggestion Oddball has a holier than thou attitude? It can't be me, except perhaps by your own misinterpretation.

dondare

WyS wrote:

Just ride how you want to ride, as long as it is safe for everyone concerned.

This holier than thou attitude is retarded.

Two points:
1) You might be over-estimating your own abilities or unaware of some of the dangers. Motorists who speed reckon that they're safer than those who obey the speed limit, and motorists who use mobiles imagine that there's no harm in it, but that doesn't make them right.
2) Persistant and obvious anarchic behaviour by a minority group antagonizes the majority. The roads become more hostile to all cyclists because so many refuse to obey the laws. Your RLJing means that all cyclists get treated badly.

Of course, these things only matter if you give a damn.

WyS

cyclists will get trated badly regardless. for reasons i stated in a post. on the previous page.

i jump lights that i can do so safely. ill even film it for you on my commute if im in tomorrow.

ofc there are idiots. there are proper idiots that stop at lights. you know the ones.. that do under ten mph and insist of stopping in front of you when they were behind you. then you overtake them before they have even pedaled across the junction. rinse. repeat.

the only real argument against rlj is that it is illegal. and that is for the po po to enforce.

BentMikey

Oh I'd agree with you on cyclists being treated badly regardless. That's not my reason for stopping.

cupofteacp

dondare do you remember the rlj thread with theo?

Even tho theo was wrong saying cycling through lights was safe, he was correct in saying that sitting at lights is dangerous.

The problem comes trying to "balance" the two sets of risk. In figures Theo used only 2 people we're killed RLJing out of 120 over 5 years in London, against 10 turning left, 1 being hit from behind, and others, adding up to a total of over 21 deaths within area of a Traffic light junction.

Would RLJing have saved these people? I really don't know, but I feel that it would have.

I'm not advocating RLJing, I'm just saying junctions are dangerous and I wish the government would get over RLJing and look at how juntions work and make them safer for everyone.

Big Red S

In this thread, does 'RLJing' mean just the going-accross-junctions-on-a-red-light thing, or does include those of us who sit in front of the white line?

Eat My Dust

I think the government should employ people to stand at traffic lights with long sticks, if a RLJer comes through, poke it through their front wheel!! That'd stop them!!!

I had some guy on a MTB the other morning, who kept squeezing passed me at traffic lights (although he wasn't jumping them) to get in front of me, and then I had to keep overtaking him on my carbon steed. I would have said something to him, but I was too amused by his bike, it was a "rabbit"!!!! who TF rides a bike named after a vibrator!!!!!

BentMikey

Big Red S wrote:

In this thread, does 'RLJing' mean just the going-accross-junctions-on-a-red-light thing, or does include those of us who sit in front of the white line?

Technically yes, but I would say that sitting in front of the line isn't really RLJing since it's observing the spirit of the law, whilst breaking the letter of it. It isn't the most sensible or safe approach to crossing a junction though.

CupofTea, I don't accept that stopping for reds is more dangerous than going through.

dondare

If you act like an outlaw then you'll be regarded as an outlaw and treated accordingly. And so will all cyclists, by association. The periodic attempts to get cycling more closely regulated are always backed up by the fact that many cyclists act illegally. The justification that motorists give for not giving cyclists enough room, for turning across them or passing unsafely is that cyclists ignore the Highway Code and therefore do not deserve to be treated with respect or consideration.
You cannot say that these are just excuses from people who'd hate us anyway when the criticisms are obviously true.

TheFoolio888

Everything I do on a bike, I do to mitigate risk to my person.


I stop just past the lights to limit the risk of me getting swiped when I'm starting up.
I sometimes ride on the pavement on pieces of road where (through experience) I feel that it is too dangerous to cycle.


But don't get me wrong (although I may be on precarious moral ground). I still think that cycling comepletely through red lights, or jumping on to the pavement to go around a red light, is wrong and there is no excuse for it.

I understand that it is against the law, but I would rather be pulled over by a copper and had this explained to me, or even charged, than increase the risk every day of being squashed by someone being inconsiderate/stupid/blind/dangerous in an car.

If we had any form of real cycle network in this country I wouldn't need to. I'm not advocating my actions...just explaining.

dondare

cupofteacp wrote:

dondare do you remember the rlj thread with theo?

Even tho theo was wrong saying cycling through lights was safe, he was correct in saying that sitting at lights is dangerous.

The problem comes trying to "balance" the two sets of risk. In figures Theo used only 2 people we're killed RLJing out of 120 over 5 years in London, against 10 turning left, 1 being hit from behind, and others, adding up to a total of over 21 deaths within area of a Traffic light junction.

Would RLJing have saved these people? I really don't know, but I feel that it would have.

I'm not advocating RLJing, I'm just saying junctions are dangerous and I wish the government would get over RLJing and look at how juntions work and make them safer for everyone.

Waiting at lights is not unsafe if you position yourself correctly. It is if you tuck yourself inside a left-turning lorry, but that's not about the lights.
Being in the wrong place can get you killed regardless of the lights, correct positioning will keep you safe regardless of the lights.

Big Red S

BentMikey wrote:

It isn't the most sensible or safe approach to crossing a junction though.

What is, then?

Clever Pun

WyS wrote:

i think it boils down to the bigger/faster vehicles think they own the road. not solely due to rlj or pavement riding. maybe that adds a little fuel to the fire, but thats just an easy way to score points in an argument.

example.. im in a polo and im foot to the floor in the outside lane of the motorway. even if im doing 99 mph there will be some nob in a merc/bmw/faster car up my ars* wanting me to move over cos they can go faster.

people hate cyclists cos they can filter through when they cant in stationary/crawling traffic. or on open roads they hold traffic up when in primary cos the cars can, and think they have the right, to be infront of them.

ofc people will say blah blah pavement/rlj/no helmet etc. but if we all road like angels they will be saying we get in the way/hold us up/die when they hit us.

Everyone and I mean everyone want their drive to be as smooth as possible while going at their own pace... everything thing else is in the way, it just comes down to how tolerant the individual is