RLJ - London commuters especially

iainment

spen666 wrote:

WyS wrote:

toontra wrote:

The operative word there is "think" - try it out sometime. It's not up to you which laws are enforced and which aren't

Although, as RLJ and dope smoking (whilst driving) endanger other people's lives, they could be seen as being more serious than bike theft.

And when did i say it up to me whats enforced and whats not? Quote me.

I said was instead of fining people for running reds, it would do more good IMO to catch bike thieves.

The nutters that hit peds, cause cars to crash etc are wrong. but like car drivers saying all cyclists ride on the pavement, you are saying all rljers are dangerous.

Empty crossing on a straight road, no peds and a red light. i go through.. what harm is caused?

No, what is being said is red light jumping is illegal. That is why it is wrong.

being illegal doesn't make it wrong, just illegal. a lot of law is arbitrary and not just or right imho.

:twisted:

P-Jay

It's my first time in the commuting section so please be kind.

I occasionally ride to work (when we have dress down Fridays, Jeans for Genes etc as we have no shower / changing facilities etc) and when I do I'll jump the odd light and bump the odd kerb if no one is about, the way I see it is that if I get hit then it's my fault, I'll take it on the chin.

Any that's not my point. If I got spotted by the Police for doing any of the above, firstly if they're on foot I'd probably pretend I didn't see them and fly off or if they did catch me, no number plate, no need to carry ID. I'd be Mr. John Smith of elsewhere.

Anyone been stopped by the Police and given false details? It’s not like they can keep a record of everyone in the UK unless you’ve been arrested is it?

WyS

i got stopped for rlj outside liverpool st station. i had no id, but they do do a name check.

Got a telling off. next time i wont be stopping.

Big Red S

damo_d_b wrote:

There was a letter in the LCC magazine (I think) this month about a cyclist who jumped a red light and hit a blind woman's guide dog as a result. How would all those pro-RLJers feel if something similar happened to them? Or maybe they feel it couldn't possibly because they're 'vigilant' and 'experienced' or whatever other justification they use for their irresponsible behaviour?

Yeah, I read that letter, and saw in it again the usual attitude that _anyone_ who jumps a red light is going at full pace through crowds of crossing pedestrians. Which, I suppose, is no worse than the view that all cyclists are RLJers.

I honeslty don't think i'm any more likely to hit a guide dog as an 'RLJer' as if I habitually stopped at red lights.

Yeah, this is because of the usual claptrap about being vigilant and experienced. I legally jump red lights (that is 'by the definition of the law' not 'legitimately') on a very regular basis - whenever there isn't an ASL, which is more often than not. I'll sometimes go beyond any pedestrian crossing, if there's no-one using it. Occasionally, if the crossing road is clear but the one I'm on isn't, I'll go across the entire junction.

The only times I've ever come anywhere near hitting pedestrians is on Oxford Street, and that's never been at a crossing.

hamboman

el_presidente wrote:

I think WyS's assertion that he can decide which laws to abide by or not is breathtakingly arrogant. If even a significant minority thought that was the case society would be in meltdown

That's not really true, now is it?! Most people have broken the law. Most motorists speed every time they drive, according to the AA's stats. Most people have smoked illegal drugs of some kind. Is society in meltdown? No. But it would be if most people, say, stole things.

The conclusion must be that it really depends which laws are broken!

Bassjunkieuk

Having just read this whole thread I've actually just signed up to post a comment!

I commute into London everyday from my home in South Norwood. It drives me mad when I see other cyclists ignoring the red lights, regardless of wheather it's a "safe" junction to do it at it's still illegal! I agree with one of the earlier poster's on the first page that I'd love to hear an really good justification for doing it?

So far we had someone who said it saves them time?? Oh really?? My commute takes me about 40 minutes of actual riding and I think I probably spend all of 5 minutes waiting at the traffic lights along the 10 mile route I use. Sometimes I get lucky and manage to sail up Borough High Street on a sea of green lights, other days I catch every damn light but I'll still stop for them, after all I'm only endangering myself and other road users by ignoring them. The way I see it is that I wouldn't try to jump a red light in my car so why would I attempt to do it on my bike? Is it because I'm smaller and present less of a obstruction to other road users and peds?

I'm also glad to hear Westminster City Council are clamping down on this, I've only witnessed one person being stopped when I've been on my bike after they flew past a policeman on a scooter at the junction by Stockwell tube station heading towards Brixton, the policeman went after them and actually had to pull in front of the rider to get his attention as he had his ipod on (not that I'd begrudge a cyclist some music, I just quite like hearing the wind whistling past my ears!)

I think the comment made by one ped after narrowly being missed by a cyclist jumping a red near Elephant and Castle "It's cyclist like him that give the rest of you a bad name" just about sums up the argument. The same cyclist also came out with an excellent excuse for jumping a red when challenged at an earlier set by a lovely lady on her phone who pointed out the red light, to which he replied "It's not like I hit you!" and carried on riding. Nice.

Anyhow I've gotta go get ready for my evening ride home now so I'll call it a day with my rant there!

keithwaldron

What makes certain cyclists think they have the right to jump red lights?

Red traffic light means stop. This applies to cars, buses, motorcycles, BICYCLES, etc.

I cycle to/from work and I obey the laws of the road, just like (most other) vehicle drivers do (yes, I am a car driver too and I never jump a red light when driving, so why should I when I'm cycling?).

It really annoys me to see other cyclists jumping red lights and they should be fined for doing so - cyclists are after all classed as road users, just as vehicle drivers are.

The argument of saving a bit of time doesn't wash. If you have to save time, then you should have left earlier.

Red Light Jumpers give all cyclists a bad reputation - don't do it. Not only can it be dangerous, but it's inconsiderate to others.

dondare

Two new members. Good. We should have more threads like this; now, who wears a helmet?

Big Red S

keithwaldron wrote:

The argument of saving a bit of time doesn't wash. If you have to save time, then you should have left earlier.

I don't do it to save time. I do it because it's safer. If it's not safer, I'd ask why they're bothering with these ASLs...

dondare

ASLs aren't safe. Same as all the other rubbish bits of green paint we're supposed to be so grateful for and legitimize by trying to use them.

Big Red S

I don't know, I'd much rather start off in the middle of the lane in front of the bus than on its left.
I always do and have done this, but technically it's illegal without the ASL (or when the bus driver chooses to ignore it).

Sure, they're not perfect, and they're not nearly a complete solution to the problem, but I think they're about the only genuinely useful bit of green paint there is. It's not any great life-changing measure, it just legalises what sensible cyclists have been doing for years.

Jon G

keithwaldron wrote:

It really annoys me to see other cyclists jumping red lights and they should be fined for doing so - cyclists are after all classed as road users, just as vehicle drivers are.

That's why many RLJ'ers do it - they 'buy into' the car-culture's belief that only motorists are real road users & that bikes are just big toys to mess about on, so they do mess about rather than follow the rules.

The argument of saving a bit of time doesn't wash.

Definately - most of the twerps who ride past me at red lights then creep along so slowly that once the lights change I pass them within 50m of the junction - and I'm no racer (43, overweight, elderly hybrid). If they are short of time they could save a lot more by getting fitter or keeping their machines in better condition.

Jon

dondare

It is certainly annoying when some POB (sorry, BM) gets ahead of me at the lights and then blocks me until the next set. But I can't say that everyone who jumps reds is like that, some are pretty quick and I wouldn't be keeping up with them anyway. But however else they ride, rljing puts them into the "ignorant twat" category.

dondare

I didn't say fool.

keithwaldron

On my way to work this morning I was following some guy who kept RLJ'ing (I kept passing him between sets of lights).

At one set of lights that he decided to RLJ while the green man was on, he nearly came a cropper. Another cyclist RLJ'd coming from the left and they both had to swerve sharply to avoid each other - hilarious.

In a way it's a pity they didn't hit each other - might have taught them both a lesson.

hamboman

The simple fact is, RLJ ing is fun! Do I bike to work cos it's better than getting the tube? he11 yeah! Do I also do it cos I love the rush? Yes again.

All you non-rljers should give it a go. Is it cos you're afraid of being pulled over or a nasty ped shouting at you? Get some b4lls!

That should stir things up!

WyS

haha.

PhilTheFish

I'm with Hamboman on this one. I think cyclists who sit at lights because they're on Red are scaredy cat girls. Go on you lot...get weaving in and out of that traffic coming across you. You only live once, so stop being so conservative!

I've even come up with a slogan for this.....

DON'T BE UPTIGHT....
JUMP THE RED LIGHT

BentMikey

PhilTheFish wrote:

I'm with Hamboman on this one. I think cyclists who sit at lights because they're on Red are scaredy cat girls.

I've done some pretty nasty RLJing on my skates on runs known as suicide skates. Think a speedskating version of an alleycat race. I even used to jump lights on my bike, but I no longer do so.

My point - don't generalise like that, because you just end up looking foolish.

Gussio

keithwaldron wrote:

On my way to work this morning I was following some guy who kept RLJ'ing (I kept passing him between sets of lights).

At one set of lights that he decided to RLJ while the green man was on, he nearly came a cropper. Another cyclist RLJ'd coming from the left and they both had to swerve sharply to avoid each other - hilarious.

In a way it's a pity they didn't hit each other - might have taught them both a lesson.

Ha ha ha. Kn0bs.

PhilTheFish

BentMikey wrote:

My point - don't generalise like that, because you just end up looking foolish.

It's ok.....I'm used to it!

WyS

BentMikey wrote:

don't generalise like that, because you just end up looking foolish.

Just like how rljers are not all pedestrian scaring pavement riding nutters.

:twisted:

dondare

hamboman wrote:

The simple fact is, RLJ ing is fun! Do I bike to work cos it's better than getting the tube? he11 yeah! Do I also do it cos I love the rush? Yes again.

All you non-rljers should give it a go. Is it cos you're afraid of being pulled over or a nasty ped shouting at you? Get some b4lls!

That should stir things up!

This type of macho posturing is pathetic. The arguments that you use to justify disregarding the law are exactly the same as those used by boy racers.

spen666

WyS wrote:

BentMikey wrote:

don't generalise like that, because you just end up looking foolish.

Just like how rljers are not all pedestrian scaring pavement riding nutters.

:twisted:

no but they are all law breakers

hamboman

dondare wrote:

hamboman wrote:

The simple fact is, RLJ ing is fun! Do I bike to work cos it's better than getting the tube? he11 yeah! Do I also do it cos I love the rush? Yes again.

All you non-rljers should give it a go. Is it cos you're afraid of being pulled over or a nasty ped shouting at you? Get some b4lls!

That should stir things up!

This type of macho posturing is pathetic. The arguments that you use to justify disregarding the law are exactly the same as those used by boy racers.

Relax and live a little! Biking's for fun, not whinging! Getting the tube is probably safer but I don't want to die of boredom.

Jon G

hamboman wrote:

The simple fact is, RLJ ing is fun! Do I bike to work cos it's better than getting the tube? he11 yeah! Do I also do it cos I love the rush? Yes again.

All you non-rljers should give it a go. Is it cos you're afraid of being pulled over or a nasty ped shouting at you? Get some b4lls!

Like I said .. they believe

Jon G wrote:

bikes are just big toys to mess about on, so they do mess about rather than follow the rules.

We're not all closet motorists.

dondare

It's not about safety, or fun, or boredom, or even legaliity. It's about the way cyclists are perceived and treated. Antisocial and anarchic behaviour by cyclists leads to calls for cycling to be regulated in the same way that motoring is regulated; with demands that cyclists must be tested, licenced, registered, taxed and insured; or else banned from the roads altogether. Also cyclists get squeezed into the gutter, endangered, cut up, obstructed and even assulted by frustrated motorists who do not see cyclists as legitimate road users because they see so many who don't act as if they are.

WyS

i think it boils down to the bigger/faster vehicles think they own the road. not solely due to rlj or pavement riding. maybe that adds a little fuel to the fire, but thats just an easy way to score points in an argument.

example.. im in a polo and im foot to the floor in the outside lane of the motorway. even if im doing 99 mph there will be some nob in a merc/bmw/faster car up my arse wanting me to move over cos they can go faster.

people hate cyclists cos they can filter through when they cant in stationary/crawling traffic. or on open roads they hold traffic up when in primary cos the cars can, and think they have the right, to be infront of them.

ofc people will say blah blah pavement/rlj/no helmet etc. but if we all road like angels they will be saying we get in the way/hold us up/die when they hit us.

Cyclegent

I'd have more respect for RLJers if they didn't wear 'safety' helmets...

As a teenager, I did used to RLJ. My justification was that I was a 'pedestrian on wheels' and if a ped wasn't subject to red lights, then neither should I be. Of course this was a complete ignorance of the law, but there were so few cyclists in London at that time (1980s) that nobody seemed to mind particularly.

When I came back to regular cycling a few years ago I'd grown up a bit and realised the very hard battle that cyclists fought in the 19th century to get bicycles recognised as road vehicles, and I realised that the protection of this status is not worth jeopardising for the saving of a few minutes by jumping red lights.

I think most RLJers do it because they're lazy and ignorant. I even met one who thought jumping red lights was legal, but it was illegal to cycle without a helmet! A small minority though seem to do it out of an adolescent need to break rules wherever possible, eg, the one or two cretins who were RLJing at the recent Hovis Freewheel event...

Clever Pun

What do people think about the european (deffo spain and italy) way of dealing with ped crossings... if it's red and no one is there you can go through... that's for all motor vehicles

Obviously it's a judgement call whether it's safe to do so... thoughts?