Doping in Football

Langenberg · June 2007

Interestingly enough, a former coach of a Schalke (when they were one league below Bundesliga) mentioned that in the beginning of the nineties, a lot of the pros (include national team players) used Captagon (which seems to 'stimulate' but not sure what it actually is, prevented players from getting tired) and ephidrine. He thought that about 50% used Captagon.

He said that you could recognise players who had used Captagon as they were overly aggressive on the pitch and their eyes looked weird.

Jens Lehmann confirmed that he was aware of players taking Captagon but not to which extent.

First open refernece to doping in football that I have seen in any case...

=====================
Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.

Tetedelacourse · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Langenberg

Interestingly enough, a former coach of a Schalke (when they were one league below Bundesliga) mentioned that in the beginning of the nineties, a lot of the pros (include national team players) used Captagon (which seems to 'stimulate' but not sure what it actually is, prevented players from getting tired) and ephidrine. He thought that about 50% used Captagon.

He said that you could recognise players who had used Captagon as they were overly aggressive on the pitch and their eyes looked weird.

Jens Lehmann confirmed that he was aware of players taking Captagon but not to which extent.

First open refernece to doping in football that I have seen in any case...

=====================
Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

God knows what the likes of Vinny Jones, Graeme Souness and Roy Keane were on then.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O Lord it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait to look in the mirror, I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man.
O Lord it's hard to be humble, but I'm doing the best that I can.

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

Coming form Mad Jens, that's saying something!

It's still my belief that doping is not a big problem in football when comapred to something like cocaine abuse.

Ste_S · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tetedelacourse
God knows what the likes of Vinny Jones, Graeme Souness and Roy Keane were on then.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Beer

Pirahna · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ste_S

Beer

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd say 6 pints of Stella before the game and a couple at half time. Just enough for controlled agression during the match.

Unknown · June 2007

What about Juventus and EPO , haven't you heard about that then ?

http://www.eastyorkshireclassic.co.uk/n ... index.aspx

njc97 · June 2007

Arsene Wenger has also made comments about players arsenal bought having been doped at previous clubs (I'd suggest he mean henry and viera from juventus and milan).

monty_dogcp · June 2007

Wasn't Marseille prosecuted for systematic drug administration when under the guidance of former cycling DS Bernard Tapie?

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

I thought Marseille were prosecuted for bribery & match fixing.

Apart from Davids, which Juve players have failed drugs tests (PED's not recreational).

Which players have gone from Robbie Savage style cloggers to Zidane style wizards?

I don't buy this theory that the media are somehow complicit in covering up widespread doping in football. If they (by which I mean the tabloids) got a whiff of something like this they would wet themselves with joy rather than cover it up.

A lot of the finger pointing comes from snobbery as every supporter is regarded as a member of the brainless chaverati, meaning the coverage of it is overwhelming, taking broadcasting time and column inches that could be devoted to other sports like, say, cycling.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spawn of Cabbie

Apart from Davids, which Juve players have failed drugs tests (PED's not recreational).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">None. But their medical support staff were convicted of supplying their players with performance enhancing drugs including EPO.

sylvanus · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">every supporter is regarded as a member of the brainless chaverati<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Come on - it is pretty difficult to be a football supporter with an individual and critical intelligence! If you'd seen some of the farting sweat-monsters that lumber out of FA headquarters then you wouldn't protest so much. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that part of the attraction of football to previously intelligent people is the chance to dive headlong in to the mass of sweating violent oiks and "become" one of the tribe. The loss of individuality is part of the aim not just a side effect.

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

So therefore, all footballers are doped up to the eyeballs?

Plus, during that time Juve were also stuffed full of the best players in the best blend of their generation.

What annoys me most is the self satified smugness of cycling fans who don't like football, know nothing about it and see following the two sports as mutually exclusive.

When player after player starts failing tests, when it looks like something fishy is going on, then I'll accept football as that type of problem.

Until then the focus remains very much on cycling.

Tetedelacourse · June 2007

Yes Sylvanus, supporting football diminishes intellect. pfff.

Have you ever seen a chess club night out? Animalistic chaos and flagrant disregard for society's boundaries of acceptable behaviour is commonplace.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O Lord it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait to look in the mirror, I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man.
O Lord it's hard to be humble, but I'm doing the best that I can.

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

That is exactly the self-satisfied smugness I'm talking about.

sylvanus · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">when it looks like something fishy is going on, then I'll accept football as that type of problem<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So an excruciatingly boring game, regular doses of extreme violence, glitzy vulgar commercialism, regular bribery and corruption and a culture of dumbed-down sporting failure don't count as problems? I'd be genuinely horrified and depressed if my children became footballers given the nature of the sport but quite happy with them being cyclists.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spawn of Cabbie

So therefore, all footballers are doped up to the eyeballs?

Plus, during that time Juve were also stuffed full of the best players in the best blend of their generation.

What annoys me most is the self satified smugness of cycling fans who don't like football, know nothing about it and see following the two sports as mutually exclusive.

When player after player starts failing tests, when it looks like something fishy is going on, then I'll accept football as that type of problem.

Until then the focus remains very much on cycling.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You're jumping to quite a few conclusions there aren't you? I certainly didn't make any of them. Nor was I self satisfied or smug. I simply stated a fact.

I don't know how rife doping is in football but given the amount of money in the game, which is way more than in cycling, then it is highly likely that systematic doping goes on. As the Juventus affair proves for one club in Italy. Chelsea have also admitted to blood spinning which, whilst not doping per se, is banned by WADA.

As for the testing argument, I think you are being naive. Cycling has a doping problem yet the testing regime, which is very strict when compared to football, has been ineffective. I would take the football authorities anti-doping stance a lot more seriously if they invested money in a rigorous testing regime. But they don't. They just bury their heads in the sand.

top_bhoy · June 2007

The difference between other sports and cycling is that in cycling, its endemic within the whole corrupt system - systematic doping organised by individuals and team management alike. Whilst it will occur, I doubt if any other mainstream sport comes close to the level where cycling currently sits. Cycling needs to look inwardly at itself first to eradicate its own problems and not simply finger point at other sports in the hope any attention is diverted away somewhere else.

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So an excruciatingly boring game<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Totally subjective

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">regular doses of extreme violence<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Utter rubbish

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">glitzy vulgar commercialism<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Could you expand on this please?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">a culture of dumbed-down sporting failure <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Cliched beyond belief. Although I suppose you're going to cite the England team consistently being the 8th best team in the world for about a decade as failure? Not all of our allegiances lie with the XI that England put out
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'd be genuinely horrified and depressed if my children became footballers <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're telling me that if your children were good enough to be able to earn a living playing sport, something they derived immense enjoyment from, you'd be horrified?
I don't believe that for a second.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">regular bribery and corruption <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think this may well be a problem. It's why, when mentioning PED abuse, I said "that type of problem".

Before you start accusing me of hooliganism or whatever else you tar all football supporters with, please take a minute to consider what I'm doing in the race section of a cycling forum.

eh · June 2007

There have been rumors and allagations for years that the West German football team that won the 1954 world cup were on drugs. They have certainly admitted to pre-match injections, but do dispute what was contained in them (if the players even knew).

Football is bound to have a drugs culture, since it gives you such an advantage to be able to run faster and longer without the early onset of fatigue. The info coming out of Italy in the 90's suggests there was plenty of EPO etc being used.

Cross-country sking is riddled with drugs, athletics equally and the rumors coming out of rugby aren't good.

Sure cycling has a drug problem and race fixing problem, but so does every pro sport. Personally I don't think it is even a big deal it is only entertainment after all, provided you enjoy watching it thats all that matters.

eskimo Joe · June 2007

What about all the cheating going on in the Italian game that some teams got demoted etc . The cheating went as far as bribing the cameramen so's as not to show dodgy decisions .
When the world cup was in Korea , the Korean team played into extra time in a couple of games but they were still running about fairly fresh at the end of the matches .

Suburban studs yodel better than anyone else

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by njc97

Arsene Wenger has also made comments about players arsenal bought having been doped at previous clubs (I'd suggest he mean henry and viera from juventus and milan).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

but you have no idea who it was though really, do you?
[:(!]

i know who it was suggested to be, and it wasn't them two

Mleh Mleh Mleh

weyayeman · June 2007

Beckham and Rooney are two big dopes for starters.
Ronaldo is a better diver than Jacques Cousteau.

Dolly Parton certainly has some big hits.

sylvanus · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Beckham and Rooney are two big dopes for starters<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I suspect Spawn of Cabbie will soon be back to explain that although they didn't get any O-levels as such, both are often to be found in the British Library Reading Room and that Rooney is a expert in Tang Dynasty porcelain.

To be fair to them they, like most English yob-ballers did both achieve their Neanderthal levels of boorish thickness without any artificial assistance at all......pure genetic retardation.

pumpkincp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sylvanus

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Beckham and Rooney are two big dopes for starters<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I suspect Spawn of Cabbie will soon be back to explain that although they didn't get any O-levels as such, both are often to be found in the British Library Reading Room and that Rooney is a expert in Tang Dynasty porcelain.

To be fair to them they, like most English yob-ballers did both achieve their Neanderthal levels of boorish thickness without any artificial assistance at all......pure genetic retardation.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Might I suggest that your last sentence would be improved somewhat by the insertion of a comma before 'did'? That is if you don't mind taking advice from a boorishly thick yob-ball fan.

So you doubt that Rooney knows much about Tang Dynasty porcelain? So what? Are you seriously suggesting that 'Big Mig', say, does?

I do not doubt for a second that some footballers take drugs. I do not doubt that some drug taking goes on in all sports. An old county pro once commented contemptuously of modern cricket training methods, "In my day we got fit to play cricket by playing cricket." Well, those days have gone, and in my view increasingly 'scientific' training regimes and the rise of 'gym culture' have gone hand in hand with a raised likelihood of drug taking in every athletic endeavour there is.

However to suggest that the problem in football is anything like that in cycling is pea-brained piffle. Drugs in cycling are endemic and institutionalized; they have been there pretty much since professional cycling began; and for generations they were an entirely accepted part of the sport. None of this is the case with football.

"Ah, but it is - it's just that the vast amounts of money generated by football means that the authorities can pay journalists to hush it all up."

Sorry, I don't buy that either. BBC coverage so angered Sir Alex he no longer speaks to them and so angered the FA that they have stripped them of the rights to the FA Cup and England internationals from next season. The BBC investigation into transfer irregularities was broadcast despite threats to sue the corporation - and has since resulted in at least one arrest, with the prediction of more to come. It doesn't sound to me as though they - to single out just one news organisation - are in anyone's pocket. Oh, and the enormous wealth of one of the richest clubs in the world didn't do much to save them from demotion to the Italian Second Division, did it?

Look at the list of winners of the Tour - the only race most non-cyclists are even aware of - over the last decade: Riis, Ulrich, Pantani, Landis and, er, Armstrong. That's the reason the finger is constantly pointed at cycling, not some worldwide cover-up with regard to other sports.

Acting the smug and sanctimonious whining prig isn't going to change that one jot.

I await with interest your reply, in which your caustic wit will no doubt shine through again with a devastatingly wounding ironic reference to Craig Bellamy's small but dazzling collection of incunabula.

Oh, my sides.

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There have been rumors and allagations for years that the West German football team that won the 1954 world cup were on drugs<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The fact the German coach happened to see the Hungarians demolish England at Wembley is irrelevant?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When the world cup was in Korea , the Korean team played into extra time in a couple of games but they were still running about fairly fresh at the end of the matches <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Let's say the were "fairly fresh". First of all they were playing at home in conditions that they were used to. Also, the Korean league was suspended for the entire year before the World Cup so the players would be fresh and spent an entire season working with a coach of organisational & tactical genius (no, not Sven)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> What about all the cheating going on in the Italian game that some teams got demoted etc . The cheating went as far as bribing the cameramen so's as not to show dodgy decisions .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've never argued for one second that football is some sort of beacon that cycling should look towards. It seems what people on here don't like is Italian football!

Maybe Sylvanus would like all people from poor backgrounds, yet oustandingly talented, to go through some sort of finishing school before they are allowed to spend the money they've earned.

The attitude that persists on this board is what irritates me. The desperation for cycling fans for football to be in the same mess.
The sanctimonious judging of anyone who likes football as a violent mindless thug.
The smugness oozing out of posts because of the esoteric sport they've discovered that only high minded individuals can appreciate.

Please also bear in mind what I'm doing in the race section of a cycling forum.

(edited for a big space at the bottom)

monty_dogcp · June 2007

I still can't believe that anyone who tries to stake his reputation as a sports fan totally lacks the comprehension that dug (ab)use is highly prevalent in practically all professional athletic sports - Kinda tells me that he's only participated from being in front of the telly or down the pub with his mates, rather than having taken part in any serious athletic endeavour - if you've trained hard enough to get to a serious level, and suffered the fatigue and pain of the training then you'd realise how much benefit anything that improves recovery and training load would bring - so you can skip training and go shopping, I suppose?

sylvanus · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe Sylvanus would like all people from poor backgrounds, yet oustandingly talented, to go through some sort of finishing school before they are allowed to spend the money they've earned.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No but it might be nice to see them getting a lot better education than the dross they're doled out these days and it might also be good to see a rather more intelligent and less violent culture in the English game as sometimes exists on the continent. There is no good reason why football culture in the UK should be so depressingly nasty, brutish and stupid - it could improve!

Lets be honest, part of the attraction of football to the fake UMC Blairlike supporter is the glamorous association with street violence. Its sad to see intelligent and cultured people worshiping the mob.

pumpkincp · June 2007

Monty - stripping your post of the gratuitous slurs born of ignorance, what you are saying is that drug taking aids athletic performance and therefore goes on in all professional sports - with which I agree. However, in saying that it is 'highly prevalent' in all sports do you mean to imply that it occurs to the same degree? And if so, why do you think journalists covering the most written about sport on the planet have not been able to expose a similar level of drug abuse to that in cycling?

Sylvanus - if you are going to write disparagingly of other people's educational standards it might be wise not to litter your own posts with schoolboy howlers in spelling and grammar.

Spawn of Cabbie · June 2007

So is that's me, is it? A fake fan, couch potato with a likeness for street violence?

If you had played football to any sort of level you would know that football training is rarely about pushing your fitness to the absolute limit. Sure, you have your days when it's hill running or whatever, but mostly it's technique, tactics and ball drills - not the sort of punishing CV/endurance training which you have to do all over again tomorrow.

Your assertion that football culture on the continent is less violent is laughable.

When I played football, I did so to a fairly high standard with and against players who "made it" including premier league players. One of my friends married a pro footballer.
In all that time I have never once heard of anyone being involved in PED abuse. Not even a whisper.

So, we can think that it's an international global conspracy that covers up systematic drug abuse or that, despite what you pray, it simply doesn't exist.

Unknown · June 2007

They don't even have proper drug testing in football . It's basically a joke . Look at Rio Ferdinand and his ban for evading a test .

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pumpkin

Monty - stripping your post of the gratuitous slurs born of ignorance, what you are saying is that drug taking aids athletic performance and therefore goes on in all professional sports - with which I agree. However, in saying that it is 'highly prevalent' in all sports do you mean to imply that it occurs to the same degree? And if so, why do you think journalists covering the most written about sport on the planet have not been able to expose a similar level of drug abuse to that in cycling?

Sylvanus - if you are going to write disparagingly of other people's educational standards it might be wise not to litter your own posts with schoolboy howlers in spelling and grammar.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

http://www.eastyorkshireclassic.co.uk/n ... index.aspx

offthepace · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spawn of Cabbie

Your assertion that football culture on the continent is less violent is laughable.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So that's why Liverpool fans have been branded as the worst in Europe is it?The scenes of English fans "enjoying the atmosphere" before big matches abroad, when shown on the news, regulary make me ashamed to be English. I just pray that the host countries don't think we are all like that

Born to be half wheeled

Doping in Football

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