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Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

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  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Peyote</i>

    Well, to be honest, I don't know how it can be backed up either. But it does seem to be accepted as a theory that transport policy should be based on the premise that pedestrians have priority over other forms of transport (cycles, horses, motor vehicles).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Accepted by who? Shared space designers?
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    Is Bonj just incredibly thick, or is he a particularly clever troll?

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • Flying_MonkeyFlying_Monkey Posts: 8,708
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Peyote</i>

    Well, to be honest, I don't know how it can be backed up either. But it does seem to be accepted as a theory that transport policy should be based on the premise that pedestrians have priority over other forms of transport (cycles, horses, motor vehicles).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Accepted by who? Shared space designers?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well, by most planners, architects, urban designers, transport policy professionals, and of course most rational human beings outside these professions.

    In other words, most people who know about these things, except for you, apparently...

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

    Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
    That I got no cerebellum
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    Accepted by who? Shared space designers?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well, if by "shared space" you mean Home Zones, then almost certainly 'Yes'. If you mean shared space as in cycle lanes painted on pavements/roads, then definitely 'No'!

    I've spoken to a few developers (residential, retail and corporate projects mainly) and they try to cater for pedestrians more than other transport forms, so I would assume that it's an undercurrent within the planning industry as a whole. Makes sense really, cars aren't sustainable in the majority of these environments.
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Flying_Monkey</i>


    Well, by most planners, architects, urban designers, transport policy professionals<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Yeah, like I say, shared space designers. You can invent as many posh words for them as you like but at the end of the day, shared space designers, the council penpushers that employ them, and dulux, are the only people that think shared space is a good idea.

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Flying_Monkey</i>


    and of course most rational human beings outside these professions.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Don't think so. Done a survey of the whole population have you?
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Peyote</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    Accepted by who? Shared space designers?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well, if by "shared space" you mean Home Zones, then almost certainly 'Yes'. If you mean shared space as in cycle lanes painted on pavements/roads, then definitely 'No'!

    I've spoken to a few developers (residential, retail and corporate projects mainly) and they try to cater for pedestrians more than other transport forms, so I would assume that it's an undercurrent within the planning industry as a whole. Makes sense really, cars aren't sustainable in the majority of these environments.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Home zones IS shared space! They've rebadged it you fool!
    'Home zones' is the name for shared space that has been invented in response to the fact that lots of people switch off as soon as the words 'shared space' are mentioned.
  • Mister PaulMister Paul Posts: 719
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mister Paul</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mister Paul</i>

    The answer, dear, is that if he is crossing the road and your horn doesn't result in him getting out of the way, you knock him over. And you go to prison. Now that <i>is</i> tee hee.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    But that never happens. Despit your claims that that is the law, not many peds actually know that - and I never usually get the opportunity to beep them out of the way, and even if I did, then beeping the horn isn't <i>actually</i> what I'd do*, you tool! I was simply saying 'what if', using it as an illustrative example in retaliation to your wind up about a ped forcing a motorist to stop by virtue of already being on the road, but from your past admissions we know that that IS actually what you DO go and do!
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    What?? Not many pedestrians know that if a car can stop, but doesn't and deliberately runs you over then it's the driver's fault??<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    No, when I say 'not many know that' I mean not many know that they don't actually have to hurry across in order to prevent a car having to slow down.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Good of you to acknowledge that at last.

    So you're saying that not many people know that drivers don't actually want to kill you and will stop if you're in their way?

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>


    Most probably know that if a driver could stop but didn't then he'd be for the high jump. But most pedestrians, unlike you, are concerned more with the safety aspect than the legal aspect - consequently they are of the belief that if you are on the road and a car is coming then they should get out of its way. They don't usually obsess themselves with that would happen and who would be to blame if an accident did happen, they just try to make sure it doesn't and if that necessitates scurrying across to get to the other side quicker, then what's the problem in it?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    The problem, Bonjy, is that you expect pedestrians to scurry out of the way. Having no knowledge at all of their capabilities, state of mind etc. The buck stops with you when you're driving. If you can strop then you must. Abdicate responsibility to someone who you have no control over and you lose control of the situation. And when in control of a car you must retain control at all times.

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>


    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mister Paul</i>


    but about drivers acting courteously and responsibly, and doing what they are supposed to to enable them to retain the license which enables them to drive on the road. It's not a right, remember?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    It is a right, just one which is earned. I have the right to drive on the road because I have earned the license to do so and satisfied all other conditions of that right.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Nope. It's a privilege. Which can be removed at any time. A policeman, road worker, pedestrian, judge, pretty much anyone in fact can legally stop you driving on the road instantly. Whether it be by removing your license, putting up a sign, or simply holding a hand up.

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    __________________________________________________________
    <font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
  • Mister PaulMister Paul Posts: 719
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    But I don't see how this can be backed up, and to be quite honest I find it quite bizarre, because I don't really know anyone that thinks this apart from the deluded people on this forum.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Funny how poor your memory is. We were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. I gave you the link to a study by the Centre for Transport Studies at Imperial College London which pretty much explains it. Did you not read it?

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    __________________________________________________________
    <font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
  • Mister PaulMister Paul Posts: 719
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>


    Hmmmm... I think we both know that really it was more along the lines of
    "I was coming home from work yesterday when I got to a zebra crossing and waited for a while. Eventually some cars were approaching so I stepped out, to my horror they didn't stop!"
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Nope. You're lying again. You know exactly what was said.

    Lying, because you have nowhere else to go.

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    __________________________________________________________
    <font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
  • Ah, sorry I thought you were referring to your previous confusion between the two concepts.

    I believe that your interpretation of shared-space/home-zones is probably a bit primitive in comparison to mine. That is, you believe it's just slapping burgundy paint on the roads (which unfortunately may not be that far from the truth in some cases, Britain is often way behind with regard to these new ways of thinking).

    Whereas I believe it's a bit more in depth than that. Feel free to investigate it a bit further at your convenvience!

    PS - No need for the 'Fool'.
  • Mister PaulMister Paul Posts: 719
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Peyote</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    Accepted by who? Shared space designers?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well, if by "shared space" you mean Home Zones, then almost certainly 'Yes'. If you mean shared space as in cycle lanes painted on pavements/roads, then definitely 'No'!

    I've spoken to a few developers (residential, retail and corporate projects mainly) and they try to cater for pedestrians more than other transport forms, so I would assume that it's an undercurrent within the planning industry as a whole. Makes sense really, cars aren't sustainable in the majority of these environments.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Home zones IS shared space! They've rebadged it you fool!
    'Home zones' is the name for shared space that has been invented in response to the fact that lots of people switch off as soon as the words 'shared space' are mentioned.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    So you haven't bothered to read anything at all about it since you flailed miserably on this one last time then?

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    __________________________________________________________
    <font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
  • Mosschops2Mosschops2 Posts: 1,774
    If I may but into this incessant replying!!! Which of you bright sparks is Jub Jub (now suspended from SS??!!) Nice work btw!!

    <font size="1">Have you ever tried pressing Alt+F4 ??</font id="size1">
    baby elephants? Any baby elephants here?? Helloo-ooo
  • Mister PaulMister Paul Posts: 719
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mosschops2</i>

    If I may but into this incessant replying!!! Which of you bright sparks is Jub Jub (now suspended from SS??!!) Nice work btw!!

    <font size="1">Have you ever tried pressing Alt+F4 ??</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    [:I]

    Who is mpaton?

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    __________________________________________________________
    <font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mosschops2</i>

    If I may but into this incessant replying!!! Which of you bright sparks is Jub Jub (now suspended from SS??!!) Nice work btw!!

    <font size="1">Have you ever tried pressing Alt+F4 ??</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Jub Jub = Mister Paul.
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mister Paul</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mosschops2</i>

    If I may but into this incessant replying!!! Which of you bright sparks is Jub Jub (now suspended from SS??!!) Nice work btw!!

    <font size="1">Have you ever tried pressing Alt+F4 ??</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    [:I]

    Who is mpaton?

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    He is the one who was replied to by Smith as being a complete idiot, which was in no way "ad hominem" of course, because he didn't agree with Smith. Then the lapdogs and Scientologists piled in.
    I seem to recall George and Mildred telling us how open and friendly they are, unlike C+....

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • Mister PaulMister Paul Posts: 719
    Yeah, I know who mpaton is on SS. I just wondered who he is over here.

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    __________________________________________________________
    <font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    Just to go back a bit.......

    I love the suggestion that only commuters contribute to a City's economic success.

    Does anyone actually believe that?

    Commuters actually remove economical input from a City. THey spend elsewhere, no input or interaction with local shops, amenities, services or community.

    How does this help the economics?

    It also shows a complete lack of knowledge about Portsmouth.



    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    They spend in the city. Just because they don't buy a house there doesn't mean they don't spend there. They spend money in supermarkets, local food shops at lunchtime, gyms, garages, they use other services there like the royal mail, banks, creches, libraries, etc. etc.
    They are also often the people who are responsible for the creation of lowlier jobs that are the livelihood of a lot of the people that live in the town.

    And it doesn't 'show a complete lack of knowledge about Portsmouth', it's just basic common sense, simple rural / urban humanitarian geography. Portsmouth isn't anything special, it's just a bog standard town like any other across the country.
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    You definitely don't know Portsmouth then. The thing about Pompey is that because of its geography and history it is NOT a bog standard town, etc. It is constrained to an island for starters.

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    Oh, "The Boss".
    "Boss" is a word for a central protruberance on, for example, a shield.
    Another word for it is a "knob".

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mister Paul</i>

    Yeah, I know who mpaton is on SS. I just wondered who he is over here.

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Just posted for the benefit of others.....[:D]

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">They are also often the people who are responsible for the creation of lowlier jobs that are the livelihood of a lot of the people that live in the town.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    So not only do the residents have no rights, it is because they are poor!

    You really have no idea about Portsmouth, its demographics or it's geography do you?



    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • natureboyznatureboyz Posts: 82
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tourist Tony</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mister Paul</i>

    Yeah, I know who mpaton is on SS. I just wondered who he is over here.

    __________________________________________________________
    <font size="1">Road Safety Expert</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Just posted for the benefit of others.....[:D]

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    So,who is he then,this mpaton?
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    And who are you on SS?

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • natureboyznatureboyz Posts: 82
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tourist Tony</i>

    And who are you on SS?

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    That's a question.I was rather hoping for an answer.
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    I don't know who mpaton is here, or if he is here at all. Is he banned yet from the playpen?

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    is he you, Tone?
  • JadedJaded Posts: 6,663
    Well, The Bonj and naturepagz should be easy to spot. You can take the name out of paganini, but you cannot remove the illiteracy. You can also take the name out of bonj, but you cannot remove the imbecility.

    The SS stormtroopers. Here in farce.

    --
    <font size="1">[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one</font id="size1">
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    ACtyually I think from the "I've got more rights than you 'caos I've got more money and a big car!" shows us thatthis is in facr [b[]<i>really[/b]</i> a Comedian - Harry Enfield

    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    If anyone has 'more' right to the highway than anyone else (which they don't, but) then it's motorists, because they're the ones that pay the road tax, petrol tax and tolls that contribute to the upkeep and building in the first place of the roads. So the roads wouldn't exist in the first place if it wasn't for car drivers.
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