Police win power to ban bike ride

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by linfordlunchbox

What ever gave you that idea ?

Apart from the tourist attractions and the tube, its a bit of a dive - and I seem to be spending far too much time up there.
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Whatever gave you that idea?
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Too much time spent there.

Waterloo bridge is a 120 mile ride from my town - I doubt I'll be popping along after work for a 6:30pm ride on any weekday in the near future even if I did want to pee the residents off in another town/city to 'reclaim the streets' - reclaim them 'from' who, 'from' what is my next question ?

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> "What is the aim/goal/purpose of CM?" <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

WHAT'S IS ALL ABOUT?
Critical Mass is often described as an 'unorganised coincidence'. It happens when a lot of cyclists happen to be in the same place at the same time and decide to cycle the same way together for a while

WHAT'S THE PURPOSE?
"Everyday, all over the world, people are resisting the problem culture of the car by getting on their bikes and riding, instead of driving.

Critical Mass is a celebration of the alternatives to cars, pollution, accidents and the loss of public spaces and freedoms.

Not an organisation or group, but an idea or tactic, Critical Mass allows people to reclaim cities with their bikes, just by getting together and out-numbering the cars on the road"

WHAT HAPPENS ON A CRITICAL MASS?
Each one is different and they follow no set route, with the direction being spontaneously chosen as people cycle along. Anyone is free to join or leave the ride as it pedals along.

The ride lasts no more than a couple of hours (depending on the weather!) and usually ends in a conveniently placed pub for more drinks.

Most all, they are peaceful, safe and fun!

DO I NEED A BIKE?
Nope! Critical Mass is not just for bikes - skateboards, roller blades, wheelchairs, pogo sticks - in fact any form of non-motorised, non-polluting are all very welcome!

FIND OUT MORE
Check out the excellent Critical Mass, London site

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So disorganised, it doesn't need a website then http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk/main.html
and if it were truly as unorganised as you claim, i'd be welcome to bring my 4x4 ?? [:D]

Anarchy rules [;)]

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

eternal_headwind · May 2007

so spen666, can you clarify? I apologise if I have made a mistake but I thought that the definition of a group applied to the entire act.
I will read it and see. I shouldn't have used the phrase 'riot' because in hasled the discussion astray, it is just I had to quote that bit of the act for an exam years ago and it has faded in my memory.
Your experience is vital if anyone wants to explore this line of thought. If the police are chosing a particular piece of legislation, there has to be the odd hole we can climb through

eternal_headwind · May 2007

A quick read was failed to define the term procession. From a legal point I mean. spen666 please help if possible. What, legally speaking, is a procession?
I would assume that next time I take a walk in the park with my wife I won't be arrested for failing to give 6 days notice?

maybrick · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">linfordlunchbox
Posted -

Apart from the tourist attractions and the tube, its a bit of a dive - and I seem to be spending far too much time up there.
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please feel free not to.

_______________

baby elephants!!? i love 'em, what do you think my jacket's made from?

Simon L2 · May 2007

I organise CTC rides that run through the centre of London.....and I did one recently for TfL.

It makes you think.

CM is, above all else, a celebration of cycling and city life. Given that, I think that Linford can be excused. But the rest of you, or at lest those of you within reach of London, should (please) consider coming along. I can just see the Friday Night Ride to the Coast, which does follow a regular route through the centre of London, and is organised, being told that it's a disruption to traffic.

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Simon L2

I organise CTC rides that run through the centre of London.....and I did one recently for TfL.

It makes you think.

CM is, above all else, a celebration of cycling and city life. Given that, I think that Linford can be excused. But the rest of you, or at lest those of you within reach of London, should (please) consider coming along. I can just see the Friday Night Ride to the Coast, which does follow a regular route through the centre of London, and is organised, being told that it's a disruption to traffic.
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And for this purpose, I would support your and any others the right to ride it as a large group 100% even if you managed to get a couple of thousand riders together for it.

Either I and the best part of the city residents are missing the point of the CM, or the attendees are.

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

Simon L2 · May 2007

well, they should ban it more often. A really jolly ride, with about 800-900 participants, and the sweetest bunch of young policemen and women that you could imagine. Everybody smiled - even drivers stuck in the queue. We were applauded. We applauded the pedestrians. We went round the back of New Scotland Yard, where even the policeman with the gun joined in the good humour. Just grand. The mass circuits of Westminster Square were sensational - each time we went round we saw more and more cyclists pouring down Victoria Street toward us.

It's a great way to meet up with friends (including young Rothbrook), take the night air, and dream of what London might be one day. As pleasant a snapshot of Modern Britain as one can imagine.

Mrs L2 came along. The telly boys and girls were impressed that the MD was taking up street protest. She had a great time, and smiled all the way back to Streatham Hill. That does it for me.

dondare · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Simon L2

well, they should ban it more often. A really jolly ride, with about 800-900 participants, and the sweetest bunch of young policemen and women that you could imagine. Everybody smiled - even drivers stuck in the queue. We were applauded. We applauded the pedestrians. We went round the back of New Scotland Yard, where even the policeman with the gun joined in the good humour. Just grand. The mass circuits of Westminster Square were sensational - each time we went round we saw more and more cyclists pouring down Victoria Street toward us.

It's a great way to meet up with friends (including young Rothbrook), take the night air, and dream of what London might be one day. As pleasant a snapshot of Modern Britain as one can imagine.

Mrs L2 came along. The telly boys and girls were impressed that the MD was taking up street protest. She had a great time, and smiled all the way back to Streatham Hill. That does it for me.
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So who decided the route?

Baby elephants? Pah!!

Simon L2 · May 2007

I truly have no idea. It gets made up as it goes along.

One month, for curiosity's sake, I decided that I would try to lead CM. I took them further east and north, toward Holborn, than is usual. Then somebody had another idea. Nobody appointed me - I just went to the front and made hand signals in a manner I thought would be suggestive. It seemed to work for a while. Then it didn't.

Sometimes Mr. Pink-Garlanded 4 Poster Bed Man (it's a recumbent with bits on) leads off, but last month he claimed to be the leader. This month everybody studiously ignored him.

Pennyfarthing · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This month everybody studiously ignored him.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With only good reasons to [;)]

# 4000

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

When/where did the ride finish ?

Anonymous · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by linfordlunchbox

When/where did the ride finish ?
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It never ends Linf,just like it never starts,allegedly.[:D]

Pennyfarthing · May 2007

we left at 9pm, there was still a lot of people riding.

# 4000

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

I passed through Westminster/the city/ the embankment yesterday evening at about 8pm and I saw a few groups of cyclists, but 900 riders as a group, I didn't see.

Call me cynical, but if you want to ride around that area when its quiet, why not do it at 5am ?. Taxis and buses are by far the worst for showing consideration for others - ban them [;)]

Tourist Tony · May 2007

Because, Linf, CM is based on commuters meeting on their way home from work.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

TBH TT, I was on my m/cycle due to a commitment early saturday morning in Westminster (killspills). I was hoping to see the CM as a group so decided to come into London on friday evening (mistake), but didn't get to the embankment until about 7:30pm due to the weight of traffic and distance I travelled. I stayed north of the river and went around the west end, up the Mall etc until about 8:15pm so if the CM was south of the river, I'm not surprised I didn't see it.

My opinion on it is still that 'reclaiming the streets' in this manner in London is a bit of a joke, and if CM's point is this, then it is a futile exercise. It will never happen as it is such high density living/working in the city area and this will never change.

You would have to also get rid of the Buses and Taxis to make headway with this ideal, as the Taxis seem to outnumber regular cars by a large margin and are driven twice as aggressively as most other cars I came across in London.

If cyclists want to truly to make a spectacle and really bring cycling to the fore in London like the Notting Hill carnival, then why not plan a festival in the City?. It would require a lot of planning, but would bring in thousands of cyclist from all over the UK to really make a point (i'd go)

The rally (120 miles) which I marshalled on yesterday from London to Donington Park had a contingent of about 350 motorcycles, was very well policed, and had an escort of about 10 metropolitan motorcycles, as well as every county which we passed through brought patrol cars from their police forces coming out and blocking the junctions as we passed on the M1 to avoid the group getting divided by traffic - we as a group owned the lane which we all rode in, and we either passed or were passed by the rest of the traffic depending on the pace set by the lead police bike on the route.

Last years rally which went from the Ace Cafe to Westminster and back, had over 7000 riders, and we (the marshals) and the police escort blocked every side road to allow the group to stay together along the 10 mile or so route in both directions.

What I'm trying to say is plan your ride, get a police escort, you get to do your thing at your pace and no one gets in your way!, but you are always going to be battling with public transport (Taxis) which would increase dramatically if private cars were banned from the area substituting one problem for another.

Jaded · May 2007

I rode 100 miles yesterday too, LLB. You should have come with me. (Wasn't a motorbike though! [:D])

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[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jaded

I rode 100 miles yesterday too, LLB. You should have come with me. (Wasn't a motorbike though! [:D])

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one
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Alas my round trip was about 400 miles in total from friday evening to saturday evening Jaded. A 50 mile cycle ride for me is plenty [:I]

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

romans · May 2007

LLB - Are you guaranteeing this will happen "..get a police escort.."? The first application will result in a refusal and then the matter will be escalated by those who had initiated this line. Sadly vehicles impede my progress daily and yet once a month the motorists object to cyclists? Where would we be if the suffragettes had stayed quiet or the ramblers over the moors had turned back? I would like my, and all kids, to be able to bike the streets in safety and cleanliness.

Romans

I'd sleep with my bike but only have a single bed ... I have to sleep on the floor.

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by romans

LLB - Are you guaranteeing this will happen "..get a police escort.."? The first application will result in a refusal and then the matter will be escalated by those who had initiated this line. Sadly vehicles impede my progress daily and yet once a month the motorists object to cyclists? Where would we be if the suffragettes had stayed quiet or the ramblers over the moors had turned back? I would like my, and all kids, to be able to bike the streets in safety and cleanliness.

Romans

I'd sleep with my bike but only have a single bed ... I have to sleep on the floor.
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Yes !

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

Motorcyclists are also very much in an 'us and them' situation also by the way we are treated.

If anyone were to be serious about a rally, they need a focus for it. You cannot just ask the impossible and expect to be taken seriously.

Just by saying that we want to 'reclaim the streets' is like saying sod everyone else, we want it in our vision and everyone else can go to hell if they don't like it.

When you talk about the suffragettes, they were asking for their right to be treated as equals and be given the votes, this was denied to them as a birthright for being female.

What would you as a cyclist demand which you couldn't get as a pedestrian, motorcycist, or car driver if you chose to use that form of transport ?.

The problem is as I see it is that the standard solution to any cyclists concerns is to stick in a cycle lane.

Well London is full of bus lanes which cyclists have access to, and only share it with the buses and taxis so they will ask what the problem with this is !

Given that these arteries carry so much traffic around the city, unless all commercial traffic were banned from the congestion charging zone between 7am and 7pm, I cannot see how it can be reduced further - what happens when a pipe bursts and a plumber is called at 11am ?

Perhaps a total ban on 'on street parking' in the area would make life easier for cyclists as it would widen the available roads and reduce opportunists from squeezing the pinch points , but its such a huge money spinner, I can't see it will fly.

12mph may be the average speed in the city for cars, but I'd say that this is because there are so many sets of traffic lights, not because the cars and lorries are travelling at that speed between them, and I'd say that the rickshaws probably slow the buses down which have the advantage of the bus lanes to near that average speed also.

Ashtrayhead · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by linfordlunchbox

Motorcyclists are also very much in an 'us and them' situation also by the way we are treated.

If anyone were to be serious about a rally, they need a focus for it. You cannot just ask the impossible and expect to be taken seriously.

Just by saying that we want to 'reclaim the streets' is like saying sod everyone else, we want it in our vision and everyone else can go to hell if they don't like it.

When you talk about the suffragettes, they were asking for their right to be treated as equals and be given the votes, this was denied to them as a birthright for being female.

What would you as a cyclist demand which you couldn't get as a pedestrian, motorcycist, or car driver if you chose to use that form of transport ?.

The problem is as I see it is that the standard solution to any cyclists concerns is to stick in a cycle lane.

Well London is full of bus lanes which cyclists have access to, and only share it with the buses and taxis so they will ask what the problem with this is !

Given that these arteries carry so much traffic around the city, unless all commercial traffic were banned from the congestion charging zone between 7am and 7pm, I cannot see how it can be reduced further - what happens when a pipe bursts and a plumber is called at 11am ?

Perhaps a total ban on 'on street parking' in the area would make life easier for cyclists as it would widen the available roads and reduce opportunists from squeezing the pinch points , but its such a huge money spinner, I can't see it will fly.

12mph may be the average speed in the city for cars, but I'd say that this is because there are so many sets of traffic lights, not because the cars and lorries are travelling at that speed between them, and I'd say that the rickshaws probably slow the buses down which have the advantage of the bus lanes to near that average speed also.
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#

Or perhaps the ammount of traffic?

'Don't Walk, Don't Smoke, Don't Drink', Don't Think'

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

People I know who commute through the CC zone have already stated that this area is much quieter since the CC zone was introduced. Much of the traffic I saw was buses and taxis anyway. Are you suggesting that by banning all other vehicles apart from cycles, buses and taxis that it would be a better place to commute in as what would happen is that the volume of buses and taxis would increase as demand for them rose. Commuters in whatever way they travel are a part of the problem - you are all trying to squeeze into the same space at the end of the day. The solution could be to move the 'city' area to somewhere else outside the M25 and leave central london to the tourists [;)]

Simon L2 · May 2007

I do think that the days of the private car in Zones 1 and 2 are numbered. It's just a pity that it's taken the powers that be fifty years to work it out.

Our city streets are besieged from within by the motor car. We're hostage to the pollution, the noise, the injuries and the deaths. We're crammed into spaces at the side of the road. But....something fundamental is going to happen in London in the next ten years, and Critical Mass is a joyous anticipation of that. We're the future. The private car is the redundant past.

I think, Linford, you malign bus drivers. Taken as a bunch they're the most considerate drivers in London. It goes to show what training can do.

romans · May 2007

CM is once a month and should that be constrained to an escorted 'march' along an approved route whereas motorised traffic in incessant? CM is a small and temporary inconvenience to those who wish to have a lesser impeded pathway to rush somewhere. Do we expect not to have a CM as attempts have been made over the years to improve the lot of cyclists with little success until recently (thank you to CC). CM brings publicity as well as enjoying riding together.
Is my imagination or have the traffic lights been changed to dwell longer on red?

Romans

I don't have a TV so I have to travel around on my bike to get the latest news.

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

I think you get the wrong picture of a police escort romans. Everyone gives way to the procession because they are there, they block the side roads as it passes, and if anyone (typically a cabbie) tries to push through the middle, they are brought swiftly to task by one of the police escorts - The police presence is there to ensure that the riders of the rally get to do it as a group and at their own pace and without interruption (so no one gets left behind). I have marshalled on 4 rallies in the city of London over the last 4 years, and in every instance, this was the case and the police were 100% behind us.

If a rallies intention is to get from A to B as a group/procession, then the police will do their damndest (sp) to make this happen and will aim to protect this group. If the groups intention is to just inconvenience others in the rush hour on friday evening (IE CM stylee), then you will struggle to get any official support for it!

900 riders in the city of London is like a fly on the backside of an elephant - a localised irritation, but not enough to get its full attention. For every cyclist who supports CMs tactics, there are plenty who don't. To gain the support of the mases, it need to be done differently and have a tangible meaning to them/us.

cuddy duck · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My opinion on it is still that 'reclaiming the streets' in this manner in London is a bit of a joke, and if CM's point is this, then it is a futile exercise. It will never happen as it is such high density living/working in the city area and this will never change.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What is it about this forum that makes people so keen to trumpet their stupidity?
Keep repeating this, like a mantra and who knows, it may become true. box's philosophy: in a world where all is subject to change the one ineluctable constant is that our inner-cities will never be cycling and walking friendly.
You were saying exactly the same thing ages ago, when I put you back in your box by pointing out that where the political will exists change happens, as per any number of european examples. You may recall I suggested you may want your opinions on the subject to be informed, and recommended some reading; Lynn Sloman's 'Car Sick' as a hugely optimistic and heart warming introduction to the subject. Seems you'd rather not bother, preferring to bray the same uninformed and pessimistic bilge for all time.
My philosophy; in a world of constant change and evanescence, the only constant is box's insusceptibility to wisdom.

There are 9 million bicycles in Beijing. But no cyclists: that's one thing we can be sure of....

Simon L2 · May 2007

Linford - it doesn't matter what you think. There were 800 and more people on CM. We'll jusdge for ourselves. Sorry.

linfordlunchbox · May 2007

You don't get people and opinion on your side by going out of your way to pi.ss them off CD

What do you honestly think I have to gain by offering my opinion on this apart from something you don't want to hear ? - stick your head in the sand and wait for the police to lose patience with the organisers and nail it down !

Police win power to ban bike ride

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