Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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Bit unfair on Rwanda. Perhaps Flat Holm or Inchkeith.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You are missing the point about crowd psychology but as you say you are "uninterested" in the causes.
There is a definite tendency of many to dismiss rather than understand - but the reality us unless you understand you can't really dismiss. It's tribal politics - you want to insult the other side not engage with them intellectually.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
How do you intellectually engage with people who want to beat up their fellow human because of the colour of their skin?
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I think you are muddling three things: 1. the behaviour of crowds, which undoubtedly egg themselves on to move extreme actions than individuals might otherwise commit. 2. Reasonable debate about how our immigration system is managed. 3. A bunch of people that just hate brown and black people, and particularly Muslim brown and black people. The third group are the people rioting. There is no reasoning with irrational hatred of people based solely on their appearance. There's nothing to be gained by trying to understand the irrational. I don't want to insult violent racist; I want them to be prevented from threatening or injuring people and their property.
If you resort to smashing up a bakery and a cosmetics shop or trying to burn people alive because you hate brown people, you forfeit any opportunity to have your views listened to or considered.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
"engage with them intellectually"
hahahaha
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Why would you want to engage with them, intellectually or otherwise? They deserve to be insulted.
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I've often said I'd be a rubbish politician/negotiator, particularly in situations where sectarian hatred is what drives violence: as someone who will always shy away from violence (or even mild conflict), I can't wrap my head around hating someone so intensely that I'd be prepared to mete out physical violence towards them.
Yes, the world needs people who can do just that, to resolve intractable conflicts. It doesn't mean calling either 'side' intellectual (though sometimes they are), but it does require an intellectual understanding of how to deal with people whose motivation is base hatred. Sure, condemnation might well be part of that, but undermining their hatred as much as is possible is likely to be part of the solution too, even if there will always be thick violent people, whatever understanding one develops.
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Stick them in immigration centres. They think it’s some kind of luxury tax payer funded holiday resort so should be quite happy with their punishment.
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There is no intellect to engage with.
They are thick people who fancy a fight and are immensely racist.
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Well our current Chancellor said after Brexit that it was clear people had voted for reduced immigration - what's happened ? There have been peaceful protests such as in London the other week - people still called far right and dismissed as morons.
To pretend you only don't want to engage because people are committing acts if violence is disingenuous because they have been ignored and labelled long before that . But in any case when people in the USA rioted after George Floyd the police clamped down but there was still an attempt to understand. After the last serious London riots huge resources were pumped into London schools as well as rioters and looters being jailed.
Really you just want to "other" people you disagree with so you can dismiss them.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
The majority are rioting because they want an excuse to smash things up. Immigration is just the excuse this time. This current situation seems to have stemmed mainly from people making some kind of tenuous link between the horrific murders in Southport and immigration despite the act seemingly having been committed by someone born British. They smash up their own towns then complain there’s nothing for them in their towns. They’re complete fuckwits.
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The people rioting don't want reduced immigration they want a whites-only country. That's not something to negotiate on or seek understanding.
The people who just want the government to take a different line on immigration are not the ones setting fire to buildings with people in them.
Also, we just had a general election, so if people who want to reduce immigration wanted an opportunity to make their views known, that was it.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think there's possibly an interesting aspect in terms of people getting radicalized, and whether there is a reinforcing action, where live streaming one riot leads to others thinking it looks like a good time.
In terms of overall numbers of rioters or protesters, it doesn't look that high to me?
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It seems in large part to be a travelling somewhat coordinated renta-mob.
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See they managed to make it down to Plymouth eventually.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Sadly so. Fortunately the city centre already looks like a scene from a post apocalyptic movie, so no harm done.
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Yeah, I reckon the TV news should just mention it without showing images. It certainly doesn't seem anywhere near the scale of past riots, especially my memories of the early 80s in Brixton, Toxteth, St. Pauls etc. but the arson attacks are a worry, particularly when they have apparently tried to stoppeople being able to escape. It's more of an orchestrated hate camapign than spontaneous rioting.
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Who do you think is getting information on these riots from the TV news?
That's thinking for a very different time.
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Perhaps the knuckleheads could be persuaded that Muslims really really hate trees, then they could replant the ones that Plymouth City Council destroyed.
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"this one simple trick that woke leftist gardeners don't want you to know!" 🤪
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Tree planting is an option for community service.
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Apparently far right rioters are planning something in Liverpool Street (London) tomorrow.
They really are thick as City of London police are actually capable and will make you find out if you fuck around.
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Won't they have the place to themselves? Or are they planning to stroll across to Brick Lane?
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Last time anti capitalist protesters were in the City, the last major protest I remember there, they foolishly stopped outside an infamous FX business, whose employees are, shall we say, a bit wide.
They got lots of cash out that morning and literally waved thousands of pounds of cash in front of the protesters to really wind them up.
I think the protesters ended up smashing up an RBS branch thinking it was the main office.
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They're due in Newport at the weekend apparently, it's like a UK tour. They'll probably take one look and think someone got here before them.
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Oh deep joy. I wonder if they can set up a wanker exclusion zone. Not brave enough to confront grumpy, tired commuters, then.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Why don't some of the rugby clubs in the designated to be visited areas get a couple of their XVs out for a 'training exercise'? Knowaddamean?
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Obviously they are going to head towards Brick Lane and Whitechapel.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They'll need police protection.
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What's this? Someone on the further-Right end of the spectrum increasing taxes on the super-rich? Didn't Meloni get the memo?
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