2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge
Comments
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As mentioned above, it sets a precedent. Let's wait and see what the other unions ask for...and we will end up paying for it.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No different to having a word with your mate the planning minister to get you off £45m of tax. Every donor expects something for their money. And I think it's a bit more than a night out with Theresa May.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Except that public sector pay rises will cost us billions, not millions. Every year.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not only that all the people on sick leave on waiting lists need to get back to work.
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Not granting them will also cost billions. If fixing the roof today costs £20k, leaving it for another 5 years will cost £40k and you'll have to have the ceiling replaced as well. There are no zero cost options.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Agree giving junior doctors 22% is dangerous. A FY1 doctor already averages £40k when enhancements are taken into account - if I'm another public sector profession I'm looking at that and thinking industrial action works. It's also bad political PR - honestly think most people think doctors were being greedy.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
It's a market and other employers are offering more. If we want enough doctors we need to pay the going rate.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think you overestimate how willing most people are to up sticks and emigrate. Conditions could also be put on their training that if they don't work for x years in the nhs they pay overseas fees.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
A BMA survey found 40% plan to go overseas after their foundation years. Australia pays (or perhaps paid) significantly more and is therefore one of the main destinations.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They could have haggled harder to get an acceptable price for taxpayers. Took all of 3 weeks to pretty much totally capitulate and encourage other unions to have a go.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Let's not also forget the DB pension schemes that guarantees them a comfortable retirement and the possibility of earning 6 figure as senior medics/GP's etc. And topping up with lucrative private work.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The approach elsewhere seems to be to accept the intependent pay review findings. What was it for junior doctors?
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Sounds like politics of envy to me. Have you considered retraining?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm not envious of what they earn 😉
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
And right on cue, here are the next lot wanting more money for nothing extra in return...
Who will be next do we think?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So stop whinging about it then. It's not as if it's going to have a material impact on your living standards.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Those figures are for the base salary for FY doctors - there are significant enhancements on top which they all get to varying degrees. The average salary of a FY1 doctor straight out of uni is around £40k and FY2 closer to £50k.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
Simply pointing out that they do OK and they should stop whining.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Sure. I'd imagine there are similar top-ups available elsewhere or 4 in ten wouldn't be looking at emigrating. Of course we could increase supply - train more doctors - and then you could have relatively poor wage levels (for the degree of expertise) as you do in veterinary medicine. Sounds like a great idea.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Interesting article from the BBC.
Labour did exceed the pay body recommendations. And as I mentioned above, the other unions are eyeing up the doctors settlement. There are also signs that the junior doctors may be back for more before too long. As mentioned in the article, "“The government is naïve if it thinks this is over - other unions will look at this deal and think they can get more, not just those in the NHS but across the public sector. This could spiral out of control.”
And to cap it all off, this likely means less money for frontline services: “Unless we get additional money to pay for this pay rise we will have to take money out of services and that is not right for the people that we serve,” says Nick Hulme, the boss of Ipswich and Colchester Hospitals.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think they only exceeded recommendations for last year's deal for junior doctors specifically. All others were in line with recommendations.
This comes after a four year deal for junior doctors ending in 2022 that set basic pay increases at 2% per year. In 2022 that must have been hard to take.
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Loving the idea that paying front line staff more is somehow taking money out of front line services.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's almost as if putting things off just leads to them costing more.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In a low inflation, pre pandemic world, guaranteed 2% basic and 0.3% to 1% per year through contract changes probably looked a decent deal. 4 years later, less so.
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Neatly summing up why long term deals can be bad for both parties in the long run.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
They're highly trained professionals with skills that are in demand across the world. They are gonna get paid well...
I would guess there are various issues. In terms of pay, it's good but not excellent, those who actually make it into medical school are among the best and the brightest, but upon graduation, they end up with a job that neither has the cushty work life balance of some of the lower paying professional positions, nor the megabucks of the highest paying graduate roles.
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Things lile expected future earnings for a line of work can be googled before they decide on which career to embark on. You would expect the brightest and the best to check these things out in advance if that's what really matters to them.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
By all means shift pensions to DC. Will need to be phased in of course but not a reason to not start. But thinking we can just pretend there's no market for highly qualified professionals and the government can just dictate terms is, dare I say it, a very Old Labour approach.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
What if they do that, become a consultant, and find that over the years their training has taken their pay in real terms has dropped 25%?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Given how large the discrepancy can be between inflation and pay rises in the very long time between selecting your a levels and starting as a junior doctor, I feel like that's a pretty bull shit answer.
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