Tour de France 2024 Rest Day 1 ***SPOILERS***
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Just watching the ITV4 tour week rest day roundup and I say Vin looks about 55kg.
You're welcome.
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Geraint Thomas has said Vingegaard is the favourite and I agree.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago1 -
even a broken clock tells the time twice a day
'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0 -
That’s what I guesstimated a few days ago. That’s a full 2kg heavier than Domenico Pozzovivo, but 2kg lighter than Marco Pantani.
How on earth can he time trial like he does?
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
A broken clock tells the time all day, it tells it correctly twice a day.
Clue up sunshine!
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I don't understand either. I thought when you lose too much weight you start to eat into muscle mass. All riders want to get as aero on a TT bike as possible so you'd think the stronger riders within reason would/should win?
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Calling it:
Remco will never win the tour.
Not good enough on the hills, not far enough ahead on the TT bike, not good at descending and (surprisingly for a Belgian) not much cop on the rough stuff either.
Stick to the classics and the minor GTs of you must
(Save that...)
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver2 -
I've actually been surprised how close Remco is to being competitive this year. He's not compelling as a GC candidate but we've seen worse than that being hyped before now. Given the right parcours he could probably nick one - it'd need to be a bit of a Wiggins situation, I think.
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Pogacar and Evenepoel attack all the time because they are tactically dumb. They were both junior superstars who could ride everyone off their wheel. Occasionally, in one day races, they can still do it. But they also get upset when it doesn't work, especially Evenepoel.
By contrast Vingegaard has had to fight to get where he is, adapting to adversity and learning his craft. He may not have 'balls' but he has far more brains. Pundits and fans talk about cycling being poker on wheels but want it to be played with the sophistication of Snap!.
As Kenny Rogers once sang, "You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away". You can't go all in and complain when someone with a Jack 6 unsuited doesn't call you.
Twitter: @RichN952 -
TTing in the Tour is different. The big units have probably been working in the wind for their teams. The only WT level TT he's won was last year's Tour, in week 3, where his relative form is a huge advantage. And he just lost by 37" to Remco (not the biggest of the TTers) and a little less to Pog. If he was losing double that he wouldn't be a GT contender.
Added to that, he attacked every corner, took incredible lines on the descents and pushed it all the way to the edge. Half his time gap to Pog there was probably just skill and dare-I-say-it balls.
He could have won the 3rd week TT the year before, but gifted it to Wout on the final climb. But even there he was seriously pushing on the descent, went off-road and took one corner like it was a berm.
Give him a flattish TT outside a stage race with well prepared specialists of the big-boy type and they'll smoke him.
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Sorry, I seem to have gone full FF, and that's never a good thing. If I start posting pictures of horses please stage an intervention.
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Maybe, I would have thought winning a TT for any of the other twenty odd teams is a big deal though. it's impressive pure climber build riders topping TT places.
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The TT is the stage we should look at more .... What were the relative strengths of the 4 galactios on the uphill section of the TT ? Where were Jonas losses concentrated
The flat 1st third ....the climb or the finale ?
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
After he set the Strava KOM on the climb of the day during recons, Victor Campenaerts delivered a strong performance. But nobody could hold off Remco Evenepoel, who had the fastest time on the segment! Jonas Vingegaard was up there as well.
Evenepoel - 6'29"
Vingegaard - 6'29"
Pogacar - 6'34"
Vauquelin - 6'35"
Campenaerts - 6'37"
Roglic - 6'43"
That's a bit scary for pog ....jonas is going uphill faster on extended efforts
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
Pogacar wasn't a 'junior superstar', his only real win of note as a junior was the Giro della Lunigiana, which Tao Geoghegan-Hart won previously, and he wasn't considered a junior superstar.
Pogacar developed much more once he turned pro, presumably because he'd matured physically and was in an environment where he could focus on performance.
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If Vingegaard is so tactically astute and physically at least Pogacar's equal why doesn't he have as good a palmares ?
I think people often underestimate the benefits of being aggressive on the bike. They see the times it doesn't work and costs the opportunity of the win but they discount the times it works as just being down to the rider being so superior they'd have won anyway. On the gravel it was possible Pogacar could have dropped Ving or Remco - he didn't and is now called rash. If he'd not made his attack on the Galibier stick no doubt he'd have got the same criticism. He's had a rest day and this week doesn't look like it has gc stages - his tactics on the gravel made sense.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]2 -
I would suggest that results this season suggest Pog is still perfectly capable of winning in that manner. I also don't think they 'get upset' when they can't do it. For all the talk of Jonas / Jumbo getting into Pog's head I actually think there's a bit of Pog trying it on by attacking and hoping criticism will spur Jonas into getting involved.
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Just for the record, and putting this here on Rest Day 1, prior to Vlasov's DNS stage 10, two thirds of riders that had left the Tour were called Pedersen.
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That's a bit of a weird question really, they're very different riders with different physical capabilities. Might as well ask why Cav hasn't won the Tour.
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Are they that different ? Pogacar has more of a sprint but Vingegaard has shown he can respond to accelerations so he's not just a diesel - he doesn't seem one to let gaps open to grind his way back - and they can both TT and climb. They are both light. The main difference seems to be their approach to racing and that's my point - if Pogacar's approach is so naive it seems to be serving him pretty well.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
The interesting thing going forwards is how Vingegaard goes about getting that time back and more importantly how Pogacar approaches it.
Does Pog say it's up to his opposition to take up the fight and use his UAE team to neutralise things - maybe pick up the bonuses - or does he continue to try and isolate Vingegaard then attack one on one as on the Galibier.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Vingegaard hasn't done much in the one day races that you'd think might suit. He's very much all in on the TDF.
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Goes a long way to explain Pog's popularity over Vingegaard.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
He's won a single one day race in his career, and it's not WT.
Jonas is great on long climbs, where he just edges Pog. He can just about hold Pog's acceleration, but not always. His prime attribute after that is recuperation, maintaining form over 3 weeks. He's the prime GT racer but there's little to suggest that translates well to one dayers, unless you run a load in the Pyrenees or something
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Yep, it's the same as Elon Musk. He doesn't just make cars, he makes rockets, mind tap devices, tunnels, high speed satellite communication and solar panels. That's why we're all such big fans of his.
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Here are some apples I'm going to compare to these oranges
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Oh please enough with the special pleading..
They are both GC riders (no need to mention Cav)
Vin is a LA Robot (all races other than the Tour are Tour prep)
You are letting your love affair cloud your judgement
'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0 -
Not sure what special pleading is, I don't think it's a bad thing that Jonas doesn't have a shitload of monuments and classics. Pog is the special case here, able to go toe to toe with MvdP etc in the classics and with Jonas Roglic and Remco in GTs
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Maybe not as a junior, but he was already being talked up big style as a 19 year old.
https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2018/03/09/get-to-know-tadej-pogacar/
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