The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
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You on 5g? I obviously work a lot on the train and getting a phone that was 5g compatible made a massive difference - the coverage is much better and is usually in the 4g gaps.
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I think one of the factors is that there are no strangers in your car, but I don't really understand it.
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Other than Germany (expensive, dirty and not the cliche German reliability) my only other foreign train experience was Italy with a return from Venice to Peschiera Del Garda. The fast trains were pricey but the regional ones were much cheaper. The first train out was a nice clean double decker with plenty of seats as it was starting in Venice, the second train after changing in Verona (I think) was dirty and crowded. Coming back we didn't need to change but the clean, double decker version was very busy. I think we paid around £35 each for the return trip so not bad for a 90 minute plus journey each way bought just before travelling but I do think the whole 'it's better elsewhere' gets overdone a bit in my limited experience. I looked at trains as an option when we were camping in Brittany and wanted to see Geraint finish his winning Tour in Paris. When I looked at prices from Nantes to Paris a few days before we decided it would be better to cut our trip in Brittany short and drive instead with a night in a very cheap (and horrible!) budget Ibis as we were going up to Disneyland Paris the following day in any case.
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Sure, if the circumstances of your trip mean that the train is a good (or the best) option. The point here is that in many situations, it isn't.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There is a big gap between "for many situations the car is the best option" and "let's price fuel tax/VED/alternative options in a way that means the car is the only sensible option" that needs to be closed IMO.
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If I was travelling from Newcastle to London, I would much prefer to take the train, even if it was more expensive than driving.
Driving the length of the country is just unpleasant.
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Just booked two TGV journeys between Paris CdG and Valence TGV, about £50 each for the 560km, though that is with a boomer discount card. (Discount cards are available for non-boomers.) Missed the dead cheap Ouigo one, which is normally 20€.
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Newcastle to London it would be though. If you want to be there at a decent time, you wouldn't prefer to leave at 3am and have to work out where to park would you? Maybe you would.
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Yes, and it absolutely isnt better coverage than 4g. Where you live, there's nothing in the way of signals. That helps a lot.
The trips in question that had me listening to podcasts rather than working were the whole length of the UK. I found the north east the worst, but it was pretty gappy everywhere.
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Laughable WiFi is a bit of common experience. Paddington to Pershore/Worcs Parkway is usually a fast comfortable service but the free onboard WiFi is presumably free because it's slower than the sparse Oxfordshire phone signals. There are companies looking at lineside repeater masts as an onboard router is always going to struggle. Obviously roll-out will be measured in decades.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
“If” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. 😉
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Yep, a good example of one of the limited circumstances where a train is a good option.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Looks like a good example of where (if you ignore the need to get to the train station and to your end destination, then it might work.
When my folks were alive I would make the journey from Kent to the NE coast near Middlesbrough pretty often. Here's a summary of the two journeys:
- Car. Get in car and drive for approx 4.5 hours, arrive at destination. Possible 5 min stop for a leg stretch and a leak on the way.
- Train. Walk 30 mins or get taxi to local train station. Wait for train. Get train to London terminus. Get on tube. Change tube to get to Kings Cross. Wait for train. Get train to Darlington. Wait for next train. Get local train to Redcar. Walk 30 mins or get taxi to destination. All while dragging my stuff with me.
It's option 2 that needed the 3am start.
That's probably closer to reality than your scenario which appears to be of living near Kings Cross and going on a city break to Central Newcastle.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Despite the amount of tax that motorists and cars contribute to the exchequer and the amount of tax used to subsidise the railways, cars are still the best option in most cases. You can't beat the flexibility and convenience in most cases.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Why would a return journey from Newcastle to London imply living in London and travelling to a city break in central Newcastle?
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Because that (or vice versa) is the only scenario where the train might be the preferred option.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Because you don't mention anything apart from a train journey in your example
A direct city to city trip may be OK, but real life journeys like the one I used to do are more common and illustrate the shortcomings of the train option. Do you not see that?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I specifically said Newcastle to London because, in case you've forgotten what started this, https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21068044/#Comment_21068044
I don't understand why driveists wouldn't want other people to be on trains out of their way.
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I personally would much prefer if most people used trains.
The current pricing structure is preventing this. Which was the point of the OP.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
If you book the taxi it will come to pick you up. I do a few out of London site visits, all by train out of necessity. Book taxi via app - meet at station. Ask driver to pick you up in a couple of hours for the return. We even did a trade show including carrying our stand, all by train and taxi.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Train works well if you go after work and you are working in London.
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Tell you what, lets go back to my real life previous travel options that I described above. Do you think my choice of car over train in that situation was wrong? If so, why?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You're adding to KG's ifs.
Liike I said, in certain situations it can be a good choice, but price aside, the lack of flexibility in only going to set points and the issues when you have to transport more than a relatively small amount of stuff means cars are top choice more often than trains.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Look at the example I gave from real life above - taxis were involved but there was so many different changes that it was a big PITA, took longer and was more expensive than just driving. And less practical because quite often I had to transport stuff between my place and my parents place.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If someone is going to the centre of any city, the train should be a no brainer, compared to a car. The price in the UK is stupid because it doesn't even compare to driving and parking combined.
This is a policy decision the UK has made.
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Does anyone remember Rail Freight?
What a hilarious concept, when you can move stuff via road.
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Tbh, the roads would be in much better shape had that been successful.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yes, it's slightly less convenient and more expensive, but my examples were also real world with heavy luggage and not familiar destinations. I've also done the emergency visit to parents in rural Worcestershire by train and taxi. As I don't drive I don't have the option but all else being equal I'd rather sit on a train for four hours than the passenger seat of a car. At least I can get some work done and unlike a few on here I don't mind mixing with other people. I think the world's big enough for both of us.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It was successful. Would it be compatible with just in time logistics? Not sure, but I do know that just in time logistics means we are using our roads as warehouses, so the taxpayer is subsidising the private sector. We have fleeting satisfaction about a cheap something from Amazon, but we pay for it twice.
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If you spend any time near a railway you'll spot that we still move quite a bit of freight by rail. We have always transferred to wagons/trucks/vans for final delivery.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
