The boomers ate all the avocados
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What is their alternative?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
It's 100% over on the valuation in vast swathes of Zone 4, but apart from that...
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
😆
"I refuse to pay the asking price. I shall simply camp in the street until the vendor sees sense!"
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yeah, living in a house is just a lifestyle choice!
If people can't afford a home they should just not have one.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I know that is the response but if the house sells for that price then that is what (some) people think it is worth.
If that's what it is worth then there is no point in moaning.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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Of course it is avoidable, don’t pay the price.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
People are willing to pay, because lenders are willing to lend, that’s what they do.
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I do love the idea that in a market where demand outstrips supply, buyers can simply dictate what they are willing to pay. This is proper fairytale stuff.
Do try this approach with your energy bill or food shopping and let us know how you get on.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
I wonder why it is priced around 50% higher than the only other two 3 bedroom detached properties in the postcode that Rightmove is currently showing (and £200k more than a 4 bedroom detached that looks quite nice if rather dated)?
The price is obviously crazy to me but as I've said before I'll never understand the attraction of London that leads people to want to be there so badly they would pay that (especially under the Heathrow flight path and somewhere that still requires a fairly lengthy commute in terms of time to get to the centre). However, if houses are selling at that price then they are surely by definition affordable? Once the number of people able to obtain a mortgage for the required amount is less than the houses available they would become unaffordable and prices would have to drop. That says you'd have to be in the top 0.5% of earners to buy it with a mortgage so to be over-simplistic are 1:200 houses cheaper than that one? I would say the bigger issue is at the bottom end of the market where the young first-time buyers are looking.
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Yes, obviously when demand falls below supply prices will drop. We are ***nowhere near*** that point. This applies to rents as well as sales.
Round the corner from me in Purley, the local MP was celebrating the refusal of an application to replace a knackered detached house with a small block of 8 flats. A recent league table showed one London borough determining just 12% of applications within the statutory time limit. This is why there is a shortage.
(BTW, London office rents are falling at the moment)
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
what made housing expensive was the availbility of 90-95%+ mortgages. Gathering 30k of deposit is not difficult, which means you can buy a 600k house. In most european countries you cannot borrow more than 80%, which means you need 120k for the same house… not so easy.
Credit made money cheap and plentiful… it should have been regulated a long time before, as the consequences were obvious for anyone to see.
left the forum March 20230 -
I may have been looking at the wrong area originally as there are similarly named streets in Hounslow and Uxbridge although the house in that Tweet doesn't appear on either.
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Sorry, this is nonsense. It's just straightforward restriction of supply. That's why rents are so high as well. The population has been growing and the number of homes hasn't. It's that simple.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Surely the "creative" mortgages are a result of the restricted supply and resultant high prices, not the other way around.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
well yes and obviously if the supply is obviously going to stay restricted, the lenders can lend in confidence that the borrowers will not end up in negative equity so they can offer ludicrous 30 year mortgages on 1% deposits.
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The point being that the prices are therefore still affordable to enough people that they can sell. Raging against the cost at the higher end seems pointless, it is the cost at entry level that needs to be fixed first. The example is similar to those US police and car valet job adverts - using an extreme example to make a point - but I think it actually detracts from the argument.
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They're only affordable to either those top top earners, ooooooor, anyone who got on the ladder much earlier when the earnings-to-price ratio was much more affordable.
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Sorry, if you've got 20 houses worth a million pounds and 20 buyers who've arranged loans to buy them, if credit restrictions come in and they can't all get loans to buy them, your houses aren't worth a million pounds anymore.
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Cake is just weakness entering the body1 -
If you've got 19 people who also bought their house when it was 10x earnings not 20x, then they can sell their house which also increased in value the same amount and buy the million pound house.
Come on guys, this is basic.
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Most buyers have already benefited from the massive inflation in the market caused by lack of supply. That equity allows them to stay in the market for relatively modest increases in borrowing.
'Entry level' is ~£100k for a 25% share of a 1-bed flat in Hendon +rent on the other 75%.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yep, exactly and that is where the focus should be in bringing prices down by increasing supply. It's why I don't really see the point in using a 3 bedroom house that is on the market for around 50% above the norm for that area as an example of how bad things are.
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It's a high price, but even at half that it's still well out of reach to first or even second time buyers.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
how do you explain that house prices are comparatively very high even in places where there is no problem with demand and supply, like anywhere in Scotland apart the big cities?
How do you explain the high prices anywhere remote and coastal, where there is no problem with demand and supply, other than that generetad by second home owners, who have access to vast amounts of cheap credit?
The shortage of homes is part of the problem, the availability of unmilimited credit is the rest.
left the forum March 20230 -
Remote and coastal, like Cornwall, where second home and holiday lets are competing with locals: that's demand outstripping supply.
Prices are low where there is low demand.
You can pick up a 3-bed semi for £270k in Kirkcaldy.
And on the floor where there's over supply - mostly former industrial towns.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I would agree but my worry is twofold with increasing supply and I don't have the knowledge to answer, but here we go:
1) What happens if you increase supply but landlords and second homeowners buy a significant proportion of the houses?
2) Can supply ever meet demand (realistically) to bring house prices down, particularly if new housing stock is not accessible to first time buyers and those on lower incomes?
Would be interested to hear some perspectives on this. I am convinced we need more housing, but I am not convinced that as things currently stand it would solve the problem. There would need to be genuine targeting of what type of housing gets built (i.e. more social/low cost homes) and lending conditions improved to make buying them accessible, which will never happen.
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Of course, but here is the problem… if you let the markets rule the show, then there will always be someone with more access to credit than you. A responsible government would see the problem coming and act accordingly. For instance, you could restrict access to mortgages for second homes and buy to let, instead they did nothing for decades, the problem got worse and out of hand and there is seemingly no solution in sight, as there are only so many houses you can build in coastal areas.
If say you could not take a mortgage as buy to let/second home of more than say 33% of the value of the property, then locals could compete with second home buyers… of course you could even restrict the sale of homes to residents and want to be residents only… there are many things you can do to overcame the shortage and keep a lid on prices
left the forum March 20230 -
Sure, I really don't understand how anyone doing a 'normal' job manages to afford London or the south-east. I certainly couldn't and when I worked for companies with offices in that area I could never work out how colleagues managed to do it as I wasn't exactly living extravagantly. Someone is obviously able to though or we would hit the point I mentioned earlier where houses aren't selling at those prices.
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