The boomers ate all the avocados
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Houses on the Pembrokeshire / West Wales coast are pretty affordable (I could get a similar or bigger house for the same value as mine). The Welsh Government has taken measures to penalise second home ownership that may pay a part in that but it is more that there isn't a huge amount of employment in the area and transport connections aren't brilliant (my daughter travelled down by train last week but it took about 5 hours and the second train was a bit of a disaster).
I do think that second home ownership should be hit massively, it's pretty greedy to have a second property when others can't afford one. That said, I suppose I'm being quite hypocritical as I quite often hire a holiday cottage so am encouraging the market.
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Sure let's have a government directing the property market and the lending market. Thanks but they already interfere with the market more than enough by artificially restricting supply.
Your suggestions are already happening or something similar. They don't address the fundamental supply shortage and someone with enough spare cash for a second home is always going to out compete a local first time buyer.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
they are not affordable by European standards, they seem affordable in an overinflated market. In France or Spain you would probably get the equivalent for half the price.
left the forum March 20230 -
supply shortage is patchy and localised… the abundance of second homes and buy to let properties, including air b&b goes to show that there isn’t a great shortage of properties, but properties are distributed in fewer hands than they should be.
left the forum March 20230 -
I don't think buy to let should be included in the mix with second homes / airbnb. The aim with buy to let is to have the property permanently occupied to maximise income so it is providing someone with a home. Properties that are empty for a significant part of the year are different.
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It depends… I think if the problem is affordability, then having more bidders on the market inevitably makes properties more expensive… this in turn means reants are higher. You could also regulate the rental market (it is regulated in many countries) and impose a fixed price per square meter in a given postcode. This would put off the more outrageous buy to let punters and make properties more affordable for all.
left the forum March 20230 -
I'm not sure on that one Pross. Whether Buy to Let, Air BnB or Holiday Home surely the intention of the landlord is to maximise income from the property to either pay the mortgage of the rented property, make a profit from it (through rental income or market price elevation over time) or both.
I don't think many landlords rent out property from an altruistic perspective - if they did, one would assume they would rent out at below market rate.
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
Airbnb and holiday homes are occupied by people who have another home elsewhere, unoccupied for that period. Effectively they are an extension to the home elsewhere in the country.
Buy to let are lived in. Not by the owner, but they are an additional home.
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The shortages are in the places where there is employment. That's why there is an over supply in former industrial towns. Unless you want to start directing where people can live along with borrowing and property values and rents, that's not a solution.
Don't take my word for it. Look at Austin, Texas. Planning laws were relaxed to make development easier > housing shortage evaporated > prices dropped.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
yep, i've got more friends leaving uk, they can get a huge place with land, local shops, services, and not too far from an airport with london direct flights, all for a fraction of a generic 30s suburban semi, better weather, far less crime, better roads
i'm off to have a scout around in a few weeks as i'm thinking of doing it, as long as you've got the cash/income stream it's easy to get residency
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
yes, sort of… in Spain you need thecGolden Visa, which involves a significant investment, around 500k, in France I am not sure, but ultimately if you have enough money, you are generally most welcome.
left the forum March 20230 -
and yet, there seems to be a problem in coastal areas, where up to 70% of the properties are owned by non residents. It would have been easy to address the problem, but they let it go out of hand.
Unfortunately, in this country there is still a strong belief that markets regulate themselves and ultimately the free market is the best way to achieve wealth and fairness for all… well, this has been disproved over and over in the past decades, but nobody seems to be prepared to acknowledge it and do something about it.
Of course, when wealthy few fund political parties to this extent, it is very difficult to change things, is it?
left the forum March 20230 -
Exactly. Plus not everyone wants to own even if they are able so the rental market is important. Ideally we would have more Council housing or similar offering a more affordable, stable rental sector but private rental is currently a critical part of the mix.
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In Italy there is what is called the “canone” whereby you are expected to rent out a property legally at a fixed rate. There is a black market of course, but there are also ways to report it.
The bottom line is that buy to let is almost inexistent, as economically is not very viable and properties are typically remted out by those who inherit them and don’t need them to live, but equally might not want to sell. The all idea of subsidising a mortgage with a rent is not on the cards… it’s just a bonkers thing, born out of extreme and reckless capitalism
left the forum March 20230 -
But actually in Italy there is quite a lot of second home ownership, particularly in Sicily where my parents are. It is typical for a family to own a house or flat inland and something by the coast they spend the entire of August in.
The major difference is that as there is more than enough property to go round, people buy to use rather than buy as investments - there is simply not the same expectation value will go up and up as there is in the UK.
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there is that.
However, my objection to buy to let is that I do not see the benefit of it to society. If a rent for a given house is higher than the mortgage repayment, as it always is, it only means that the owner had more access to credit than the tenant, or in other words took advantage of their financial position to exploit others and make even more money. This is speculation, whichever way you want to look at it and what is worse is that it exploites a basic human right, that of having a place to live.
left the forum March 20230 -
In an ideal world, a tenant does not have responsibility for maintenance of the property, has flexibility to move and does not have any exposure to downward fluctuations in the property market or upward fluctuations in the mortgage rate.
That depends on there being adequate supply and therefore being no opportunity for exploitation of a dysfunctional market. So currently we are not anywhere near that world.
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Just in case @rick_chasey didn't dislike the Telegraph already...
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Columnists describing anyone as workshy is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think that type of opinion is the sort of one that would agree that the likelihood of breaking bones and developing dementia because of repeated concussions is what makes rugby such a good sport for schoolchildren... really teaches them to toughen up and stop complaining.
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In general, the complaints are a mirror behind their own behaviour. So boomers calling millennials entitled, workshy and snowflakes - I think it’s safe to say that’s what boomers are.
As millennials call boomers greedy selfish bastards who persue zero sum politics - yup, millennials probably are.
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Just because it's hypocritical doesn't mean that it's wrong. Although Gen Z seem to be taking workshy and entitled mantle from the Millennials.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I can’t say that many of the Gen Z or millennials I’ve worked with are workshy. They may be more prepared to say no to doing unpaid additional hours but I actually respect that (and they generally knuckle down when something really needs to go out the door).
They are possibly a bit “snowllaky’ but again that might not be a fault and there are probably lots of things we all did or said as office banter that we really shouldn’t have. It’s good that they feel able to raise their concerns. There were plenty of things I saw and heard that I didn’t like at their age but didn’t feel confident enough to object to.
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Possibly you need to speak to your recruitment team. No issues here.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Did I say they worked for me? I recruit wisely 🙂
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Which other people half your age are you hanging around with? And how would you know how hard they work?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I listen to people and read stuff...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I would say there is a difference in attitude but I don’t think they’re workshy.
Younger people do not believe that there are genuine opportunities and upsides for working above and beyond for no extra pay early on in their career, plus the labour market is tight.
They want to be paid for the work they do now. They see the idea of working all hours as a junior to get ahead as a scam and look at middle management and don’t see evidence they’re wrong. If their boss says that’s not right they’ll just go somewhere else because the market is tight enough.
There’s a revealing TikToker which is a guy who’s mid 20s in the UK and he’s just got a new boss who’s come from American. The new boss keeps kicking off because the guy refuses to attend 8am calls the boss lines up.
His argument is that he’s paid for 9-5:30 so he wants to go to classes beforehand.
In response to “be the good corporate citizen” and pay it forward, he just says “the second they can’t afford me I’m gone anyway, they show no loyalty and if it’s so important for me to work that extra hour they can pay me for it”.
I guess boomer mentality calls that workshy. But I think at junior level roles the amount of turnover of roles is so high that loyalty that was a feature of white collar work back in the day is long long gone.
That’s the trade off with relentless “upskilling” which, i admit, I am a part of (and incentivised to encourage) at more senior levels.
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I don't think boomers would have been expected to work extra hours. I remember my dad (he may be pre boomer but still) saying when he started work in the car industry in HR - or personnel management as it was - he'd often go to the cinema in the afternoon. He did take on extra work when we were kids but it was paid work for the Manpower Services Commission. I think all this work yourself to death for nothing stuff came in later - 80s-90s which is probably where these bosses get their expectations
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I think there's a huge amount in that. When I was entering the workplace the idea of a 'job for life' was still a thing and lots of people worked for one employer. These days there is very little loyalty from a company to an employee but it remains something that employers have also expected the other way. I think younger generations have realised that and take jobs as stepping stones. It used to surprise me how many employers people I was interviewing in their 20s and early 30s had already got through (I think, as an employer, there is still a frequency at which alarm bells ring though). I also found employers who claim they don't have the money to give existing staff pay rises somehow manage to find enough to pay the market rate to take on new staff.
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