Seemingly trivial things that intrigue you
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Your point? I wanted to be vaccinated and was satisfied it was less risky than getting covid.
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Neither of you have a point. BB if you are volunteering for a clinical trial, it is for the greater good, not to provide you with healthcare.
RC, your introspection goggles are on again. The value of someone's life doesn't depend on whether they have children. That's offensive.
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It’s not about the value, so relax. Appreciate its close to home but it’s not personal.
BB has responsibilities as a parent to his children. Fatherless children do worse etc.
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You've just said the exact same thing in a slightly different way.
I can't figure out if you are a fascist at heart, or autistic.
I would prefer it if you were just trolling.
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You don't give me much credit for risk assessment.
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You are confident, I'll give you that.
If nothing else, surely we can all look back at what we thought and hoped back then, and reflect on how it was a bit more complicated than we realised.
Fwiw I think I was a strong proponent.of challenger trials at the time, but for the reasons I give above, I think I was wrong.
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I recall there was some clinical trial about 15 years ago that went very wrong and a few people died and some had limbs amputated. That was in this country too. Can't remember the details of what drug they were trialling, but I remember thinking at the time that someone had got something really really wrong for it to go so badly at that late stage of human testing.
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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It was early stage gene therapy I think. From memory, the trials were trying to stimulate some part of the immune system (that, it turns out, is really complicated) and it resulted in their bodies attacking their own cells.
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Northwich park trial.
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I was in favour and have not been persuaded I was wrong. As I said, based on what I read, I would have been happy to have the vaccine in April/May 2020* or whenever it was the trials started. The vaccine was subsequently shown to be both safe and effective, so with hindsight I would have been right although I know that others would say that I would have simply been lucky.
*I didn't have it because I had a cough in March 2020 which ruled me out and I was also worried about the amount of time involved.
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In hindsight it was safe and effective, but despite that it was suggested at the time and not pursued anywhere in the world by any epidemiologists or drug companies, you are right?
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One’s responsibilities change as a parent and so that impacts your decision making and risk assessment.
If risk is a multiple of severity vs likelihood, I’d argue all other things being equal, the severity is heightened as a parent of young children.
You can not like that but the impact of parents of young children dying is greater. That’s just reality.
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Now that you've said it a third time I agree with you.
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They were worried about the ethics of challenger trials and, presumably, the legal consequences. It should have been a government decision in the same way that war is.
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Do you have life insurance for both parents? If not, you really should.
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You need it for your kids. Mine is a lot higher than my mortgage.
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They were and it was. What am I missing here? The govt, via its plethora of advisers did not think they were worthwhile and opted to get to more or less the same place in more or less the same time by drastically short cutting clinical approval, and indeed removing it entirely for the dosage regime that was actually implemented. These were brave and heavily criticised decisions at the time.
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I guess I’d be curious if your life insurance covers volunteering for trials to be infected with a newly recognised pandemics
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It is not unknown for parents to lay down their lives to make their children's future better.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I was considering volunteering for the vaccine not the virus. Plus I imagine it would be covered. Suicide is covered.
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The relevance is that you are concerned about parents dying. It's always a risk, so you should make sure that if it happens, the finances are ok.
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Do you know what the word "challenge" means in this context? Otherwise, what you are describing is the clinical trials thelat actually took place.
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I considered volunteering for one of the trials that took place. I didn't consider volunteering for a trial that didn't take place.
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I mean, I wouldn’t say so much as concerned as I think one’s responsibilities are different when you have not-grown-up children, and I just assumed most people see it that way and would factor that into deciding whether to volunteer for trials for novel pandemic illnesses.
FA was offended.
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I don't know what point you are making about challenge.trials then. Or RC for that matter.
Seems perfectly reasonable to want to give yourself a 50% chance of a vaccine based on a personal assessment of risk.
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I'll try this one more time. There are two elements that need to be proved with a vaccine: (i) it is safe (ii) it is effective.
I was happy to volunteer for the trial which I am mentioning as it shows that there was a reasonable amount of evidence suggesting it was safe. Item (i) above. Part of the trial would have been to test the efficacy, but my input would have been minimal as I would still have been actively avoiding contracting covid.
Challenger trials would have sped up the process of establishing whether it was effective. I wasn't keen to try that, but I'm sure some people would have done it. In the same way, some people volunteer to have their muscle biopsied or to fight on the front lines.
I understand your argument that proving that the vaccine was safe would take as long as establishing its efficacy in the normal way, so there was nothing to be gained from challenger trials. I don't agree, because I think the definition of safe should change in the context of the disease i.e. if one child in 100,000 dies from a chickenpox vaccine, then it's a terrible vaccine, but if one 80 year old in 100,000 dies from a covid vaccine, then it is a risk worth taking.
We just have different opinions.
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