Seemingly trivial things that intrigue you
Comments
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Just because the reason isn't good - doesn't mean the parents won't act on it. It is worth offering solutions as people don't like being told they are stupid, apparently
My aunt-in-law is an anti-vaxxer and her un-vaccinated son and grandson recently went down with whooping cough. Fucking moron.0 -
This is the whole game plan of the Trump / Farage / Johnson / Putin crowd: make enough noise that it's hard for anyone to realise that you're opponents aren't just making noise too.Slowbike wrote:I really wasn't advocating NOT getting the MMR - only trying to highlight the struggles a parent has with conflicting information and who to trust
They don't need you to believe them - they just want you not to believe the opposition.
Seems like it's working.
So on one side we've got the medical establishment. Can be self-serving and imperfect, true. But they do have the ever-so-slight advantage of rather a lot of well-verified research on their side. That and a lot of evidence that anyone can see for themselves.
On the other we have ex-Dr Wakefield plus a bunch of Russian bots (yes, they've been heavily involved in the whole anti-vaxx thing) and their internet crank sheep.
But the real underlying cause is a culture that pretty much tells us that we are entitled not only to our own opinions but our own facts as well: post-modernism has a lot to answer for.
So you choose.
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If they are offered separately, more will have it separately, which means more will not complete, and fewer will get fully immunised.
I remember my brother getting whooping cough when he was a kid. I think he wasn't vaccinated because of some scare back in the mid 70s. Was nasty even without complications.0 -
rjsterry wrote:Interestingly I was talking to a secondary school teacher about school libraries and homework research and they were saying that they have to guide students quite closely on what sources to use because there is so much utter rubbish online.
This is something I've learnt with my kids - how homework and self study has changed since I was at school. For us the challenge was finding some information about any given subject - having to go to the library or trawling through an encyclopedia. Kids now have more information than they can shake a stick at. How to try and interpret it and arrive at a plausible dissemination of it all is another challenge entirely!You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
Indeed - I realise I sound like a dinosaur when I make the observation to my pupils that the system of transmitting knowledge when I was their age was not greatly changed since the first time things were written down a few thousand years ago (if you ignore TV and radio entertainment): either somebody told you, or you had a book in the house (if you were lucky), or tried finding a library that was open in order to navigate their index cards & shelves. On the plus side, it did put a certain hurdle in the way of the cranks who these days can propagate their dangerous bilge via the internet at virtually no cost.Longshot wrote:rjsterry wrote:Interestingly I was talking to a secondary school teacher about school libraries and homework research and they were saying that they have to guide students quite closely on what sources to use because there is so much utter rubbish online.
This is something I've learnt with my kids - how homework and self study has changed since I was at school. For us the challenge was finding some information about any given subject - having to go to the library or trawling through an encyclopedia. Kids now have more information than they can shake a stick at. How to try and interpret it and arrive at a plausible dissemination of it all is another challenge entirely!0 -
There are several good reasons - mostly for delay - quite clearly You haven’t bothered to look into it.KingstonGraham wrote:Slowbike wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:AFAIK, the MMR is combined not because it is cost effective, but because that is the most likely to actually be completed.
If you have to have 6 separate jabs or however many, you're less likely to complete than two. Makes sense.
yup - I understand that could be the case - I thought it was down to cost - eitherway ... if you've got parents refusing the MMR - then is it not possible to offer the separate vaccines instead? (and that is a question) Because, surely the logic goes along the lines of "it's important to be immunised but there's a few that won't because of XYZ - but they may if we offer them differently and the end result is the same. Although I guess it could lead to a trend of wanting them separate, for no good reason - and therefor missed jabs in more of the population ..
There is no good reason.0 -
Which are?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
On the vaccination debate, you quite often hear the antis argue that deaths don't happen from measles unless there are underlying health issues and their children are healthy. What the inconsiderate, ill-informed tw@ts don't appreciate is that there are children out there who aren't healthy and who are unable to be vaccinated so whilst their own kids may just have a few days 'minor illness' they can seriously affect others in the process. My daughter had cancer just before her second jab was due so couldn't have it done. When combined with the chemo seriously affecting the immune system kids in that situation are reliant on those around them being protected to avoid contracting what could be a fatal illness.0
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KingstonGraham wrote:If they are offered separately, more will have it separately, which means more will not complete, and fewer will get fully immunised.
I remember my brother getting whooping cough when he was a kid. I think he wasn't vaccinated because of some scare back in the mid 70s. Was nasty even without complications.
there was a vaccine for it in the 70s :shock: I just assumed that stuff was recent medicine, whooping cough was horrible, it was even worse with asthma, that and chicken pox were the two worst childhood sicknesses I had, and they filled me full of antibiotics so much trying to make me better, I ended up with a severe allergy to penicillin
ffs,get kids vaccinated0 -
[Is it safe to post in here?]
I had shingles. It was hell.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I don't think shingles is contagious via internet forums so it should be safe enough :wink)www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0
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Chris Bass wrote:I don't think shingles is contagious via internet forums so it should be safe enough :wink)
Are you sure?!seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Shirley Basso wrote:Slowbike wrote:Shirley Basso wrote:Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet
Quite frankly ... fuck off.
No. Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance is what puts others and others' children at risk.
My opinion is in line with todays recent news piece whereby a politician or other recommended un vaccinated children shouldn't be allowed into state provided schools.
^^
Get your kids vaccinated, or home school them you fcuking utter cockwomble. Selfish, credulous, entitled, poorly educated. I literally could not be more contemptuous. Measles was eradicated until sh!twits like you believed some discredited cr@p, spread around the internet by fcuking morons with too much time on their hands. Vaccination stops the spread of dangerous diseases, several of which are rearing their ugly head again.0 -
Easy Hoppy, the misunderstanding was sorted.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Erm...Slowbike wrote:
Just do a search on the NHS site on MMR - it’s all thererjsterry wrote:Which are?The NHS does not recommend single measles, mumps or rubella vaccines, as there's no evidence to support their use or to suggest that they're safer than MMR
From the NHS MMR FAQs page. That seems pretty unequivocal to me.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Pinno wrote:Easy Hoppy, the misunderstanding was sorted.
Maybe it needed ramming home.
My daughter was severely immuno-compromised. She could not have the vaccinations. She could easily have caught m, m, or r from an unvaccinated kid. Eventually her underlying condition did for her at age 13, as you know, but fcuking idiots dithering on about discredited garbage gets my fcuking goat.0 -
hopkinb wrote:Pinno wrote:Easy Hoppy, the misunderstanding was sorted.
Maybe it needed ramming home.
My daughter was severely immuno-compromised. She could not have the vaccinations. She could easily have caught m, m, or r from an unvaccinated kid. Eventually her underlying condition did for her at age 13, as you know, but fcuking idiots dithering on about discredited garbage gets my fcuking goat.
I don't want your bloody goat.
Make it into Chamois leather.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:hopkinb wrote:Pinno wrote:Easy Hoppy, the misunderstanding was sorted.
Maybe it needed ramming home.
My daughter was severely immuno-compromised. She could not have the vaccinations. She could easily have caught m, m, or r from an unvaccinated kid. Eventually her underlying condition did for her at age 13, as you know, but fcuking idiots dithering on about discredited garbage gets my fcuking goat.
I don't want your bloody goat.
Make it into Chamois leather.
I'll make it into curry goat and serve with rice and peas if anything.0 -
Are there any films with the plot where a crime syndicate aims to take control of the leading world economies for their own ends?
Or is the idea simply too far beyond the bounds of possibility that they haven't actually made one?
I feel I might write the book on which it could be based. A bit like the Godfather but bigger without the Sicilians (Sicilians are bad Hombres like Mexicans).0 -
Like the reverse ending of Fight Club?0
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One thing that intrigues me is that anti-vaxers are usually treated as mental conspiracy theorists but climate change denial is fairly common and socially acceptable despite having the same 99.999999% scientific consensus.0
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Before I say any of the following i just want to make it very clear - I am not saying man made climate change isn't a thing - just answering the question as to why people can argue the case that it isn't!!
with that out of the way...
I think the difference is we don't have as much data on climate change - what we know is humans are producing more CO2 and other bad stuff and the average global temperature is increasing - bt what we don't know is what would have happened if we hadn't been producing those gasses. And throughout history global temperatures have risen and fallen naturally and there are plety of scientists (i use the term loosely!) who say that the temperature would have increased anyway.
With vaccinations we have people who have had vaccinations and those who have not and can compare one against the other - we only have one planet and one time to look at so we know we are producing more of these gasses and the temperatures are rising but we do not know for certain that one leads to the other. which is why people are able to say it is not true and can get away with that view more easily.
also - people like flying places and driving cars and drinking out of plastic things and stuff so they want to be able to justify doing it which helps!www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
HaydenM wrote:One thing that intrigues me is that anti-vaxers are usually treated as mental conspiracy theorists but climate change denial is fairly common and socially acceptable despite having the same 99.999999% scientific consensus.
There were plenty of people denying Climate Change just before the Ice Age too.You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
rjsterry wrote:
Erm...Slowbike wrote:
Just do a search on the NHS site on MMR - it’s all thererjsterry wrote:Which are?The NHS does not recommend single measles, mumps or rubella vaccines, as there's no evidence to support their use or to suggest that they're safer than MMR
From the NHS MMR FAQs page. That seems pretty unequivocal to me.hopkinb wrote:Pinno wrote:Easy Hoppy, the misunderstanding was sorted.
Maybe it needed ramming home.
My daughter was severely immuno-compromised. She could not have the vaccinations. She could easily have caught m, m, or r from an unvaccinated kid. Eventually her underlying condition did for her at age 13, as you know, but fcuking idiots dithering on about discredited garbage gets my fcuking goat.
Right - stop calling me names - read the meaning of what I wrote - it's not always black and white - there are instances when the vaccines cannot be administered and times when they should be delayed - and that's the NHS advice.
Anyone who blindly follows advice - from whatever source - needs to stop and carefully think. And that definitely applies to listening to people on the internet who can't even read what's in front of them.0 -
Chris Bass wrote:Before I say any of the following i just want to make it very clear - I am not saying man made climate change isn't a thing - just answering the question as to why people can argue the case that it isn't!!
with that out of the way...
I think the difference is we don't have as much data on climate change - what we know is humans are producing more CO2 and other bad stuff and the average global temperature is increasing - bt what we don't know is what would have happened if we hadn't been producing those gasses. And throughout history global temperatures have risen and fallen naturally and there are plety of scientists (i use the term loosely!) who say that the temperature would have increased anyway.
With vaccinations we have people who have had vaccinations and those who have not and can compare one against the other - we only have one planet and one time to look at so we know we are producing more of these gasses and the temperatures are rising but we do not know for certain that one leads to the other. which is why people are able to say it is not true and can get away with that view more easily.
also - people like flying places and driving cars and drinking out of plastic things and stuff so they want to be able to justify doing it which helps!
I think you should f*ck off and stop flying you selfish basterd
Sounds sensible that those are the likely reasons to be honest, the last one is the most important.
I've had many a discussion with my father, a retired jet engine designer, about this and it really boils down to the fact he isn't an expert in climate science and the experts in climate science are so we should listen to them rather than deliberately argumentative retired jet engineers.
On a related note, I don't want to be rude about anyone on this forum but what is the age when guys suddenly decide they are the arbiters or all scientific and social matters and feel the need to profess it angrily at every opportunity? I swear that it's always dads of a certain age who have the strongest and most petulant opinions. I think it is linked to the years of being emasculated at work. Thoroughly looking forward to it myself0 -
Chris Bass wrote:Before...helps!
It's immaterial. Those who are in denial of the fact should take the precautionary principle anyway.
Aside from climate change, there's the issue of pollution (plastics, hydro carbons, ozone depletion for example) and the acidification of the sea.
There's also the major issue of sustainability.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:Chris Bass wrote:Before...helps!
It's immaterial. Those who are in denial of the fact should take the precautionary principle anyway.
Aside from climate change, there's the issue of pollution (plastics, hydro carbons, ozone depletion for example) and the acidification of the sea.
There's also the major issue of sustainability.
Agreed. There is a pretty large business risk at some point of these things too, people can accelerate that by changing public opinion.0 -
Also the pollution is disgusting0
