Seemingly trivial things that intrigue you

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

keef66 wrote:

"That's the only use of a battery you could think of?"

No, I was attempting humour.

I sit here in an office surrounded by things containing batteries. The keyboard on which I'm ineptly typing, the mouse, the laptop, the wireless headset, my mobile phone, watch, camera, iPad, garmin, TomTom, my colleague's pacemaker, half the stuff in the car, the thermostat in the hall, my cordless tools and lawnmower, and a bewildering collection of rechargeable lighting of various kinds.

I realise that batteries have enabled the development of lots of different technologies.

I'm just frustrated by our inability to stop people killing each other, and to come up with a fairer way of sharing the planet. I don't understand politicians who are happy to spend on HS2 or Trident's replacement, but not on tackling homelessness or properly resourcing mental health provision.

Sorry, I can be a bit humourless. Yes, we are maddeningly destructive bunch but before you despair too much, consider that the invention of just one vaccine for smallpox has saved billions of lives. Far more than have ever been killed by warfare.

Sounds like you might have read Steven Pinker's 'Enlightenment Now'... that's his general theme. Must admit I found his 'We'll be fine' shtick rather unrelenting and repetitive, and I know the book got a, shall we say, mixed reception, but he still makes some good points along the way.

No, I haven't read that but it rings a bell. It's easy to forget that disease kills far more than other humans. And I'm not convinced we will be fine, just that we could if we put our minds to it.

slowbike

keef66 wrote:

And yet we are still having to have conversations about the MMR vaccine and parents who take advice from strangers on social media rather than health professionals or the scientific community, and risk the health, even the lives of their children and others they may infect...

Well - it's understandable when someone says the combined MMR is linked to Autism (probably because the diagnosis occurs just after the MMR vaccine is administered?) - that Parents should take a step back and question the authorities.
We know authorities play by statistics - 1 in 1000 will be affected ... well, what if my child is that 1? If everyone else is taking the vaccine then my child can't catch the diseases can they ... so why risk it?
It's a fair argument - there are side effects with practically everything we take - and our little ones are the most precious thing we will ever have - no money can replace them. We all want to do our best for them. Of course, the MMR was(/is?) available as separate vaccines - so why not split them? Of course, the medical sector haven't found a link, so the MMR combined remains the most cost effective method.... It can be difficult to trust when the advice comes through as "It's safe, but 1 in 1000 may have a fit/sizeure afterwards" .... is having a fit safe?! Of course, pretty much every medicine comes with a warning about the risks & side effects - but we, as a non-medical member of the general public, have to put our trust in the medical professionals, that this is the safest way of protecting against something worse....
it's easy to see how a scare story can put anyone off ... it's enough to make someone believe in god!



*edited to clarify that it's not my view - it was a view given by someone who would've been classed as a medical professional, but not backed by any proper tests....

rjsterry

Slowbike wrote:

keef66 wrote:

And yet we are still having to have conversations about the MMR vaccine and parents who take advice from strangers on social media rather than health professionals or the scientific community, and risk the health, even the lives of their children and others they may infect...

Well - it's understandable when the combined MMR is linked to Autism

No it f***ing isn't.

Also, ALL medicines have side effects.

chris_bass

rjsterry wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

keef66 wrote:

And yet we are still having to have conversations about the MMR vaccine and parents who take advice from strangers on social media rather than health professionals or the scientific community, and risk the health, even the lives of their children and others they may infect...

Well - it's understandable when the combined MMR is linked to Autism

No it f***ing isn't.

Also, ALL medicines have side effects.

beat me to it!

It is a horrible case of correlation NOT meaning causation - rise in autism diagnosis alongside rise in vaccines - that was literally the extent of the "research"

shirley_basso

Slowbike wrote:

keef66 wrote:

And yet we are still having to have conversations about the MMR vaccine and parents who take advice from strangers on social media rather than health professionals or the scientific community, and risk the health, even the lives of their children and others they may infect...

Well - it's understandable when the combined MMR is linked to Autism

No it fucking isn't you absolute moron - you've just reconfirmed what keef has said - you are too fucking stupid to actually consult a healthcare professional and instead read bollocks on facebook to educate you.

slowbike

Shirley Basso wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

keef66 wrote:

And yet we are still having to have conversations about the MMR vaccine and parents who take advice from strangers on social media rather than health professionals or the scientific community, and risk the health, even the lives of their children and others they may infect...

Well - it's understandable when the combined MMR is linked to Autism

No it ******* isn't you absolute moron - you've just reconfirmed what keef has said - you are too ******* stupid to actually consult a healthcare professional and instead read **** on facebook to educate you.

ok - it "was" linked - but yes - sorry - I should've said that it was disproved ...

No I'm not an absolute moron and I'm not too **** stupid .... other than not to realise that you lot are too **** stupid to read and understand a viewpoint rather than just jump on someone ... but there you go .. it's the internet - it's happened before, it'll happen again ...
fckuwits ...

briantrumpet

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

keef66 wrote:

And yet we are still having to have conversations about the MMR vaccine and parents who take advice from strangers on social media rather than health professionals or the scientific community, and risk the health, even the lives of their children and others they may infect...

Well - it's understandable when the combined MMR is linked to Autism

No it ******* isn't you absolute moron - you've just reconfirmed what keef has said - you are too ******* stupid to actually consult a healthcare professional and instead read **** on facebook to educate you.

ok - it "was" linked - but yes - sorry - I should've said that it was disproved ...

No I'm not an absolute moron and I'm not too **** stupid .... other than not to realise that you lot are too **** stupid to read and understand a viewpoint rather than just jump on someone ... but there you go .. it's the internet - it's happened before, it'll happen again ...
fckuwits ...

The trouble is that every time someone reports these "MMR is linked to autism" lies as a 'viewpoint', it sounds like a Trumptastic "people say that...", and some fool somewhere will use it to validate their standpoint.

slowbike

briantrumpet wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

ok - it "was" linked - but yes - sorry - I should've said that it was disproved ...

No I'm not an absolute moron and I'm not too **** stupid .... other than not to realise that you lot are too **** stupid to read and understand a viewpoint rather than just jump on someone ... but there you go .. it's the internet - it's happened before, it'll happen again ...
fckuwits ...

The trouble is that every time someone reports these "MMR is linked to autism" lies as a 'viewpoint', it sounds like a Trumptastic "people say that...", and some fool somewhere will use it to validate their standpoint.

Yes - I get that, re-reading my post ...

We went through the "should we, shouldn't we" with Little Slowbike - hadn't really paid attention to any noise prior to him arriving - but the naysayers comments do stick in the mind - so had to do a bit of research. I still wouldn't say it was a "No brainer" because there are inherent risks - I don't mind taking risks that I can see & mitigate against - so he'll come cycling with us and do all our sports - we can mitigate against most of the risks there - but we,as individuals, have no input on how he may or, most likely, may not react to the vaccine. We have to trust the government advisers that it's the best - and sometimes it can go wrong.

Interestingly, the number of vaccinations is still decreasing and they're now considering compulsory - it's now down to about 90% and "herd immunity" relies on about 95% being vaccinated ... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49870387)

rjsterry

Slowbike wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

ok - it "was" linked - but yes - sorry - I should've said that it was disproved ...

No I'm not an absolute moron and I'm not too **** stupid .... other than not to realise that you lot are too **** stupid to read and understand a viewpoint rather than just jump on someone ... but there you go .. it's the internet - it's happened before, it'll happen again ...
fckuwits ...

The trouble is that every time someone reports these "MMR is linked to autism" lies as a 'viewpoint', it sounds like a Trumptastic "people say that...", and some fool somewhere will use it to validate their standpoint.

Yes - I get that, re-reading my post ...

We went through the "should we, shouldn't we" with Little Slowbike - hadn't really paid attention to any noise prior to him arriving - but the naysayers comments do stick in the mind - so had to do a bit of research. I still wouldn't say it was a "No brainer" because there are inherent risks - I don't mind taking risks that I can see & mitigate against - so he'll come cycling with us and do all our sports - we can mitigate against most of the risks there - but we,as individuals, have no input on how he may or, most likely, may not react to the vaccine. We have to trust the government advisers that it's the best - and sometimes it can go wrong.

Interestingly, the number of vaccinations is still decreasing and they're now considering compulsory - it's now down to about 90% and "herd immunity" relies on about 95% being vaccinated ... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49870387)

Not being vaccinated carries risks as well, even if one is selfish enough to not care about herd immunity. There is no zero risk option. It's not that difficult to compare the incidence of measles complications with the incidence of vaccination reactions. I've seen a figure of one measles infected child in 20 developing pneumonia - significantly higher than the incidence of adverse reactions to the vaccine - and a mortality rate of 1-3 per thousand infections in children.

TheBigBean

Reading about why the UK doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox, but other countries do is quite interesting.

shirley_basso

Slowbike wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

ok - it "was" linked - but yes - sorry - I should've said that it was disproved ...

No I'm not an absolute moron and I'm not too **** stupid .... other than not to realise that you lot are too **** stupid to read and understand a viewpoint rather than just jump on someone ... but there you go .. it's the internet - it's happened before, it'll happen again ...
fckuwits ...

The trouble is that every time someone reports these "MMR is linked to autism" lies as a 'viewpoint', it sounds like a Trumptastic "people say that...", and some fool somewhere will use it to validate their standpoint.

Yes - I get that, re-reading my post ...

We went through the "should we, shouldn't we" with Little Slowbike - hadn't really paid attention to any noise prior to him arriving - but the naysayers comments do stick in the mind - so had to do a bit of research. I still wouldn't say it was a "No brainer" because there are inherent risks - I don't mind taking risks that I can see & mitigate against - so he'll come cycling with us and do all our sports - we can mitigate against most of the risks there - but we,as individuals, have no input on how he may or, most likely, may not react to the vaccine. We have to trust the government advisers that it's the best - and sometimes it can go wrong.

Interestingly, the number of vaccinations is still decreasing and they're now considering compulsory - it's now down to about 90% and "herd immunity" relies on about 95% being vaccinated ... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49870387)

There is no link to MMR and autism.

What risks are you talking about?

Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet

slowbike

TheBigBean wrote:

Reading about why the UK doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox, but other countries do is quite interesting.

Probably because chicken pox isn't too bad? especially if they get it young enough not to remember it. Pox parties ...scabby... hmmm ... !

slowbike

Shirley Basso wrote:

Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet

Quite frankly ... fuck off.

rjsterry

TheBigBean wrote:

Reading about why the UK doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox, but other countries do is quite interesting.

Any recommendations? A quick scan suggests concerns over reduced adult immunity to shingles through reduced exposure. Don't think measles behaves in the same way.

chris_bass

the thing with vaccines is that it concentrates on the positive action

i.e. what harm could be done by vaccinating our child
whereas the opposite approach should be adopted

what harm could be done by not vaccinating our child.

However, I have no children and am not going to in the future so I can only imagine what it is like to have to make decisions about their welfare

chris_bass

Slowbike wrote:

No I'm not an absolute moron and I'm not too **** stupid ....

you sure about that? there is strong evidence to the contrary....

Slowbike wrote:

btw - I'm with Chris on this

keef66

Relative risk. This stuff should be taught in schools. Everything we do or don't do carries a risk, but people don't know how to use the information they are presented with.
Driving to / from work is by some margin the riskiest thing I do each day. Around 1800 people are killed and 25,000 seriously injured annually on Britain's roads, but it doesn't stop me getting in the car.

At my age getting out of bed in the morning is apparently a relatively risky activity, but I'm not about to stop doing that either.

shirley_basso

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet

Quite frankly ... fuck off.

No. Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance is what puts others and others' children at risk.

My opinion is in line with todays recent news piece whereby a politician or other recommended un vaccinated children shouldn't be allowed into state provided schools.

keef66

Shingles can fcuk right off. Wife and I had chicken pox as kids, I had shingles as a student, she had it a lot later in life and it sounded a lot more painful

slowbike

Chris Bass wrote:

However, I have no children and am not going to in the future so I can only imagine what it is like to have to make decisions about their welfare

I can only go on my own experience - whilst I'm normally very logical, when you have to weigh up the pros and cons for your own child you have to fight off the emotional responses.
What I was trying to get across (but spectacularly failed) in my first post on this subject - was that any negative press against the government is easy to believe - because it pulls against your emotional strings - whereas the government advice is orderly and measured and (quite correctly of course) says there are risks associated.

slowbike

Shirley Basso wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet

Quite frankly ... fuck off.

No. Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance is what puts others and others' children at risk.

My opinion is in line with todays recent news piece whereby a politician or other recommended un vaccinated children shouldn't be allowed into state provided schools.

No - you can go back and read what I wrote.

kingstongraham

AFAIK, the MMR is combined not because it is cost effective, but because that is the most likely to actually be completed.

If you have to have 6 separate jabs or however many, you're less likely to complete than two. Makes sense.

chris_bass

Slowbike wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

However, I have no children and am not going to in the future so I can only imagine what it is like to have to make decisions about their welfare

I can only go on my own experience - whilst I'm normally very logical, when you have to weigh up the pros and cons for your own child you have to fight off the emotional responses.
What I was trying to get across (but spectacularly failed) in my first post on this subject - was that any negative press against the government is easy to believe - because it pulls against your emotional strings - whereas the government advice is orderly and measured and (quite correctly of course) says there are risks associated.

I completely get that - they only way i can relate to it is that my sister has struggled with a few health issues recently (really don't want to go into details on here) and i have been trying to give her honest and unbiased advice on what to do and how best to approach recovery - it was hard! and she is a fully grown adult who can make her own decisions!

I can fully see how if someone hears a rumour that something bad may happen - no matter how many times people tell you otherwise - it can make you really doubt whether you should do it.

slowbike

KingstonGraham wrote:

AFAIK, the MMR is combined not because it is cost effective, but because that is the most likely to actually be completed.

If you have to have 6 separate jabs or however many, you're less likely to complete than two. Makes sense.

yup - I understand that could be the case - I thought it was down to cost - eitherway ... if you've got parents refusing the MMR - then is it not possible to offer the separate vaccines instead? (and that is a question) Because, surely the logic goes along the lines of "it's important to be immunised but there's a few that won't because of XYZ - but they may if we offer them differently and the end result is the same. Although I guess it could lead to a trend of wanting them separate, for no good reason - and therefor missed jabs in more of the population ..

shirley_basso

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet

Quite frankly ... fuck off.

No. Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance is what puts others and others' children at risk.

My opinion is in line with todays recent news piece whereby a politician or other recommended un vaccinated children shouldn't be allowed into state provided schools.

No - you can go back and read what I wrote.

Have re-read your response to Chris Bass and apologise my reply was a bit strong - but I do feel very strongly about it, in case you hadn't noticed!

slowbike

Chris Bass wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

However, I have no children and am not going to in the future so I can only imagine what it is like to have to make decisions about their welfare

I can only go on my own experience - whilst I'm normally very logical, when you have to weigh up the pros and cons for your own child you have to fight off the emotional responses.
What I was trying to get across (but spectacularly failed) in my first post on this subject - was that any negative press against the government is easy to believe - because it pulls against your emotional strings - whereas the government advice is orderly and measured and (quite correctly of course) says there are risks associated.

I completely get that - they only way i can relate to it is that my sister has struggled with a few health issues recently (really don't want to go into details on here) and i have been trying to give her honest and unbiased advice on what to do and how best to approach recovery - it was hard! and she is a fully grown adult who can make her own decisions!

I can fully see how if someone hears a rumour that something bad may happen - no matter how many times people tell you otherwise - it can make you really doubt whether you should do it.

I can't explain why it's different - you'd think we're all logical enough to make sensible decisions - I guess this is where the GP used to have more sway (before the internet) as a trusted professional who looked after the whole family - these days, it's easy to find arguments against the GPs advice.

Anyway - good luck to you and your sister - hopefully she can listen to you and take your unbiased advice

slowbike

Shirley Basso wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Get your children immunised and don't believe morons on the internet

Quite frankly ... fuck off.

No. Your stupidity, ignorance and arrogance is what puts others and others' children at risk.

My opinion is in line with todays recent news piece whereby a politician or other recommended un vaccinated children shouldn't be allowed into state provided schools.

No - you can go back and read what I wrote.

Have re-read your response to Chris Bass and apologise my reply was a bit strong - but I do feel very strongly about it, in case you hadn't noticed!

ok I'll retract my request for you to fuckoff then I really wasn't advocating NOT getting the MMR - only trying to highlight the struggles a parent has with conflicting information and who to trust. Little Slowbike is up-to-date on his (NHS advised) vaccinations ... I think!

I can recall having mumps as a young lad - other than feeling a bit sorry for myself, it wasn't too bad - reading on the other symptoms and effects mumps can have I see why they immunise against it.

Not being experienced in little people, we've googled a lot for advice - especially in the early months - usually ignored it unless it's come from or agrees with that that's on the NHS site.

rjsterry

Slowbike wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

However, I have no children and am not going to in the future so I can only imagine what it is like to have to make decisions about their welfare

I can only go on my own experience - whilst I'm normally very logical, when you have to weigh up the pros and cons for your own child you have to fight off the emotional responses.
What I was trying to get across (but spectacularly failed) in my first post on this subject - was that any negative press against the government is easy to believe - because it pulls against your emotional strings - whereas the government advice is orderly and measured and (quite correctly of course) says there are risks associated.

Like I said there are no risk free options. Also look very closely at the sources of information. I know experts are unfashionable at the moment, but they really do know more than Facebook.

Interestingly I was talking to a secondary school teacher about school libraries and homework research and they were saying that they have to guide students quite closely on what sources to use because there is so much utter rubbish online.

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Reading about why the UK doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox, but other countries do is quite interesting.

Any recommendations? A quick scan suggests concerns over reduced adult immunity to shingles through reduced exposure. Don't think measles behaves in the same way.

No links as I read about it a while ago. There is a cost benefit to vaccinating every child as the cost of parents not working when their kids have chickenpox exceeds the cost of the vaccine. The reason you give is one of the explanations, but it doesn't sit that well with me - allowing kids several days of suffering to lower the chances that other adults get shingles. Also, I am not sure that there is evidence that this strategy works when comparing with countries that do vaccinate against it (although it is a while since I read about the subject).

It is completely different to measles therefore as not being vaccinated is supposedly a benefit to society.

kingstongraham

Slowbike wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

AFAIK, the MMR is combined not because it is cost effective, but because that is the most likely to actually be completed.

If you have to have 6 separate jabs or however many, you're less likely to complete than two. Makes sense.

yup - I understand that could be the case - I thought it was down to cost - eitherway ... if you've got parents refusing the MMR - then is it not possible to offer the separate vaccines instead? (and that is a question) Because, surely the logic goes along the lines of "it's important to be immunised but there's a few that won't because of XYZ - but they may if we offer them differently and the end result is the same. Although I guess it could lead to a trend of wanting them separate, for no good reason - and therefor missed jabs in more of the population ..

There is no good reason.