The Poels factor

CarbonClem wrote:

Surely Geraint gets sold the Vuelta and/or Giro now. Assuming Froome mends ok, it’s him and Egan for the Tour.

That was my thinking as well. Ineos next year:-

Giro: Thomas and Carapaz
Tour: Froome and Bernal
Vuelta: Tour loser and Giro loser - LOL!

Coopster the 1st wrote:

hypster wrote:

some of the domestiques are going to feel a little less than special I'm guessing.

While I am sure money helps the domestiques I am sure being on a winning team where their efforts make a strong contribution to the win make them feel special enough. Much better than putting the effort in and not winning.

There is the other point of view though. Plenty of domestiques think they deserve a shot at a prize i.e. Richie Porte, Mikel Landa etc. and get disgruntled. When it was just Froome winning GTs for the team there was scope for other tours. Now there's no possibility and all a domestique at Ineos can look forward to is one day classics or killing themselves in service and taking the cheque.

RichN95 wrote:

I won't be sure of Kwiatkowski or Poels making the Ineos team next year.

My Guess: Bernal, Thomas, Froome, Sivakov, van Baarle, Rowe, Castroviejo, one other - probably Kwiato

There's a decent argument for swapping Sivakov for Tao there - there's not a great deal between them but Tao has been Bernal's wingman for a year and a half. They room together, Tao speaks Spanish etc.

r0bh wrote:

hypster wrote:

There is the other point of view though. Plenty of domestiques think they deserve a shot at a prize i.e. Richie Porte, Mikel Landa etc. and get disgruntled. When it was just Froome winning GTs for the team there was scope for other tours. Now there's no possibility and all a domestique at Ineos can look forward to is one day classics or killing themselves in service and taking the cheque.

How many of Sky/Ineos's super domestiques have left and got better results at their new teams though?

Obviously not but that's kind of the gist of my point. Disgruntled domestiques not getting a shot at Ineos are not going to perform to the best of their ability for maybe someone like Carapaz. For some it must be a hard choice between staying and being a super-domestique, like Richie Porte arguabaly was, or trying to get team leadership elsewhere at a lesser team. Others like Luke Rowe play to their strengths and become indispensible for the role they fulfill within the team.

M.R.M. wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I won't be sure of Kwiatkowski or Poels making the Ineos team next year.

My Guess: Bernal, Thomas, Froome, Sivakov, van Baarle, Rowe, Castroviejo, one other - probably Kwiato

2 former winners take some skills to manage, 3 former winners seems almost impossible... surely one of them will go... problem is go where?

Movistar with their roster of superstars didn't even manage the podium

Don't think Geraint has much of a leg to stand on regarding making any demands after this Tour. It was there for the taking with Froome and Dumoulin out and Pinot abandoning and he was unable to bring it home. Froome would have taken the win as his. Thomas only tried to be there left standing when everyone else failed. Bernal didn't.

Harsh. Thomas's big chance was the second half of stage 19.... which didn't happen. Bernal's job was to shake Alaphilippe out as they didn't have a mountain train to do it. Thomas would take a free ride and then attack. Bernal rode into yellow doing that (not an accident, but not essential to an Ineos win).

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I won't be sure of Kwiatkowski or Poels making the Ineos team next year.

My Guess: Bernal, Thomas, Froome, Sivakov, van Baarle, Rowe, Castroviejo, one other - probably Kwiato

There's a decent argument for swapping Sivakov for Tao there - there's not a great deal between them but Tao has been Bernal's wingman for a year and a half. They room together, Tao speaks Spanish etc.

Maybe. But I think they'll want to give Sivakov a low key intro to the Tour. And one while he's still Russian. (My theory, based on absolutely nothing, is he'll change his nationality to French in due course and become the next French Tour winner)

Not sure tour selection would be affected by this but Sivakov has talked about adopting French nationality in interviews in the past. His parentage may be Russian but he's been raised in France and is much more French.

No tA Doctor wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I won't be sure of Kwiatkowski or Poels making the Ineos team next year.

My Guess: Bernal, Thomas, Froome, Sivakov, van Baarle, Rowe, Castroviejo, one other - probably Kwiato

2 former winners take some skills to manage, 3 former winners seems almost impossible... surely one of them will go... problem is go where?

Movistar with their roster of superstars didn't even manage the podium

Don't think Geraint has much of a leg to stand on regarding making any demands after this Tour. It was there for the taking with Froome and Dumoulin out and Pinot abandoning and he was unable to bring it home. Froome would have taken the win as his. Thomas only tried to be there left standing when everyone else failed. Bernal didn't.

Harsh. Thomas's big chance was the second half of stage 19.... which didn't happen. Bernal's job was to shake Alaphilippe out as they didn't have a mountain train to do it. Thomas would take a free ride and then attack. Bernal rode into yellow doing that (not an accident, but not essential to an Ineos win).

But would Thomas have caught Bernal on stage 19? I don't think so. Thomas basically is a one (one and a half) trick pony. He waits super long and then does a 1 minute max effort or a "I win sprints against climbers" move at the end of a climb when everyone sits up angling tactically for the stage win (like on Alpe d'Huez last year).
Bernal was already leading Thomas by 5 seconds and was up the road. I think Thomas would have ridden into 2nd and that is as far as he would have gone.
He is too nice and not driven to the length you need to be in order to become a multiple time GT winner and an all time great. Those do not tolerate any others besides them (see Froome, Contador, Nibali, Hinault etc. etc.)
This level of niceness makes him a better teammate and better person and probably happier in life, but it doesn't allow you to be truly great.