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US man killed by endangered tribe in india

mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
edited November 2018 in The cake stop
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-46286215
Local media have reported that the US national was a missionary who wanted to meet the tribe to preach Christianity to them.

...The number of people belonging to the Sentinelese tribe is so low, they don't even understand how to use money. It's in fact illegal to have any sort of contact with them...

...contact with the outside world would put them at risk of contracting disease ...The Sentinelese are particularly vulnerable: their complete isolation means they are likely to have no immunity to even common illnesses such as flu and measles.

If that quote is true it just shows how arrogant and self-righteous people can be. The man thinks the risk he put them at was of much less importance than his beliefs ...it's quite simply disgusting that he went there on that agenda.
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  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    Good for them - I hope he bbq'd well ....
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 1,784
    FFS

    One of the last truly uncorrupted peoples on earth and some twonk decides they need his values . . .
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,315
    laurentian wrote:
    FFS

    One of the last truly uncorrupted peoples on earth and some twonk decides they need his values . . .

    Yes he was an idiot, but "uncorrupted"? Who's corrupted? We are what we are and they are what we are, too.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,517
    Well, that's religion for you... :roll:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,315
    pblakeney wrote:
    Well, that's religion for you... :roll:

    Maybe the tribe thought their religious beliefs justified killing the missionary.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,517
    rjsterry wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Well, that's religion for you... :roll:

    Maybe the tribe thought their religious beliefs justified killing the missionary.
    The examples just keep coming...
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 1,784
    rjsterry wrote:
    laurentian wrote:
    FFS

    One of the last truly uncorrupted peoples on earth and some twonk decides they need his values . . .

    Yes he was an idiot, but "uncorrupted"? Who's corrupted? We are what we are and they are what we are, too.

    Uncorrupted by western values. (perhaps a poor choice of word)

    I am possibly going to the Andaman islands next year (obvioulsy not to the areas where these indigenous people live as it's illegal) so I've spent a little time trying to find out what little there is to know about them - interesting stuff. Wanted to cycle from South Andaman to North but following days of trying to understand why this wasn't possible found out that it's because I would have to go through and indigenous peoples area and you can't get through quick enough on a bike (they have police escorted convoys so it is technically possible if you can hitch a ride for you and the bike on a truck)
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    I am going nowhere near the Andaman Islands. Any year.
  • I know someone who went into the centre of PNG when it was banned due to tribal fighting. They had permission from one of the most important chiefs or king or whatever he was in the area so got treated like an honoured guest. VIP status at every village with accommodation and boat plus guide to the next stop arranged each night. Not uncontacted tribes and no attempt to convert to a foreign religion.

    I'm no expert but if a country bans outside access to an area anyone wanting to breach that should get special permission or forget about it. But above all respect the local culture. I am 100% against missionary work.

    I had a school friend who's mother was ultra Catholic and saw missionary work as the best thing you could do with your life. She used to point out old ladies she knows from church who's son or daughter worked as missionaries. She talked to them like they were mothers of saints to be praised. My mate I think I heard had become a missionary. My thought on hearing it was "what a waste of talent". Clever kid, stupid job.

    One less religious zealot. Although I wish anyone going to a foreign country to convert people would just stay in their own country and do it there. I'm certain they'll give it up after meeting me and people I know. We've given JWs plenty of food for thought over the years.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,056
    It looks like the missionary got their point.

    Lots of them, arrow head shaped.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • sniper68sniper68 Posts: 2,899
    edited November 2018
    I'm puzzled :|
    As a "Missionary" I presume he was pedalling some sort of "Religion" or other :?:
    Presuming the afore mentioned is the case is it not strange that his "God" didn't stop the Arrows and so forth "convert" those "savages" to "insert-religious-persuasion-here" :?: ........













    .....or is it just Bollox and he got what he deserved for trespassing on a forbidden island :roll:
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,532
    Well it's regrettable he was killed but yes he did bring it on himself.

    I wonder what would happen if someone from this tribe wanted to contact us, maybe to travel, in fact anyone know if it ever happens?
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • As a "what if" scenario, I wonder if he had contacted them and lived whether there's a possibility they could have converted him?

    I mean they must know there's an outside their island with other people living there. They haven't wanted, as far as we know, to contact the outside world. What do they have that they are happy to stay isolated?
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    As a "what if" scenario, I wonder if he had contacted them and lived whether there's a possibility they could have converted him?

    I mean they must know there's an outside their island with other people living there. They haven't wanted, as far as we know, to contact the outside world. What do they have that they are happy to stay isolated?

    We should invade them and find out? It's what we always used to do. Army first then missionaries to explain that God is love, peace and all that.

    I guess after Brexit we can get back to business as usual.
    Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim gun, and they have not.
  • singletonsingleton Posts: 1,782
    I'm sure this guy knew the danger that he was putting himself in.
    Clearly he thought that his message was critically important for them to hear, and also worth the risk to his own life to deliver it. What he did would be seen by many as a great personal sacrifice for the love of others.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,517
    Great personal sacrifice to achieve the square root of nowt.
    Will never see the point.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    I mean they must know there's an outside their island with other people living there. They haven't wanted, as far as we know, to contact the outside world. What do they have that they are happy to stay isolated?
    Just scared of the unknown?
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    singleton wrote:
    What he did would be seen by many as a great personal sacrifice for the love of others.
    and the more sane amongst us know what he was doing was trying to commit a cultural murder. Dress it up whatever way you want to justify it in your own head and belief system, it was never about the love of others it was about trying to force his belief system onto an a group of people that he saw as 'primitive' and in need of his 'education'.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • singletonsingleton Posts: 1,782
    it was about trying to force his belief system onto an a group of people that he saw as 'primitive' and in need of his 'education'.

    You have absolutely no way of knowing how he saw others.
    There is no evidence whatsoever that he saw these people as being what you describe as 'primitive'.
  • Evangelicals of all faiths (and none) are the same, eh Bianchi?

    Let everyone find their own beliefs or lack of them. If the tribe wanted to find an outsider's God or belief system the first step would be to leave their tribal area. Never happened so get the hint from that. Sharp points and death was not needed.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    singleton wrote:
    it was about trying to force his belief system onto an a group of people that he saw as 'primitive' and in need of his 'education'.

    You have absolutely no way of knowing how he saw others.
    There is no evidence whatsoever that he saw these people as being what you describe as 'primitive'.

    Either he saw these people as primitive or he was deluded about his own abilities. One man alone is never going to change the belief system of a sophisticated society (and no sane man would believe that he could) but he may well do so with a primitive society. If he thought he could influence a sophisticated society, why did he not try out his great skills on Iran?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    singleton wrote:
    it was about trying to force his belief system onto an a group of people that he saw as 'primitive' and in need of his 'education'.

    You have absolutely no way of knowing how he saw others.
    There is no evidence whatsoever that he saw these people as being what you describe as 'primitive'.

    I suggest you look up the meaning of primitive.
    As Survival International a Global Group set up to 'prevent the annihilation of tribal peoples' state on their website
    Christian missionaries, who have been making first contact with tribes for five hundred years, are still trying to do so today. Often believing that the tribes are ‘primitive’ and living pitiful lives ‘in the dark’, the missionaries’ ultimate aim is to convert them to Christianity – at whatever cost to the tribal peoples’ own health and wishes.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Iran has had contact with Christianity this tribe hasn't. Perhaps that's why he went there. He might not expect to get any conversions but without exposure to his religion they would never get the chance.

    It has nothing to do with sophistication or primitive. Also missionary doesn't have to mean trying to impose their religion on others.
    A missionary is a member of a religious group sent into an area to proselytize or perform ministries of service, such as education, literacy, social justice, health care, and economic development.

    That's from Wiki obviously.

    Although if he's an American missionary I bet it was to convert. However like someone else said, we don't know what his views and aims were. I've certainly not read anything in the news reports giving that information.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Iran has had contact with Christianity this tribe hasn't. Perhaps that's why he went there. He might not expect to get any conversions but without exposure to his religion they would never get the chance.

    It has nothing to do with sophistication or primitive. Also missionary doesn't have to mean trying to impose their religion on others.
    A missionary is a member of a religious group sent into an area to proselytize or perform ministries of service, such as education, literacy, social justice, health care, and economic development.

    That's from Wiki obviously.

    Although if he's an American missionary I bet it was to convert. However like someone else said, we don't know what his views and aims were. I've certainly not read anything in the news reports giving that information.
    His aims we're well documented on his instagram feed and from his own parents, the information is out there. he was a missionary doing what missionaries do.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    for the avoidance of doubt, this was shared by his parents
    Chau’s riveting journal of his last days, shared with The Washington Post by his mother, shows a treacherous journey by dark in a small fishing boat to the area where the small tribe lived in huts. The men — about 5 feet-5 inches tall with yellow paste on their faces, Chau wrote — reacted angrily as he tried to attempt to speak their language and sing “worship songs” to them, he wrote.
    “I hollered, ‘My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you,’” he wrote in his journal. One of the juveniles shot at him with an arrow, which pierced his waterproof Bible, he wrote.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Fair enough in this case, but not all missionaries are about outright conversion. It's also a job title given to religious funded ngo workers at times. From people who knew parents of missionaries they talked of setting up healthcare facilities in remote areas or education facilities. The jesuits also did that in our sophisticated and developed nation. There's probably missionaries working in our own country now.

    Personally I abhor attempts at conversion. In my ideal world you wouldn't need religion but if anyone wanted to they can find out about it for themselves. As in personal choice to look for whatever it is they feel religion can offer them.

    I wish the police could move on those religious people that stand by the pedestrian bridge in Lancaster who approach people who look like they could be in need or vulnerable to influence. They're very selective in who they speak to I think (perhaps that's my atheist and secular paranoia kicking in).

    IMHO it's this kind of missionary / evangelical approach that's wrong whether in the UK or a remote part of the world.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,517
    for the avoidance of doubt, this was shared by his parents
    Chau’s riveting journal of his last days, shared with The Washington Post by his mother, shows a treacherous journey by dark in a small fishing boat to the area where the small tribe lived in huts. The men — about 5 feet-5 inches tall with yellow paste on their faces, Chau wrote — reacted angrily as he tried to attempt to speak their language and sing “worship songs” to them, he wrote.
    “I hollered, ‘My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you,’” he wrote in his journal. One of the juveniles shot at him with an arrow, which pierced his waterproof Bible, he wrote.
    I'd have taken the hint.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,532
    singleton wrote:
    What he did would be seen by many as a great personal sacrifice for the love of others.
    and the more sane amongst us know what he was doing was trying to commit a cultural murder. Dress it up whatever way you want to justify it in your own head and belief system, it was never about the love of others it was about trying to force his belief system onto an a group of people that he saw as 'primitive' and in need of his 'education'.

    I don't disagree but it's interesting that in our own society we generally think we have advanced - both through scientific discovery but also in our belief systems becoming more based on rationality and less on tradition, religion and mysticism.

    Isthere an argument to be made that we are almost using this society as a kind of living museum, denying them what we have in the process. OK so they may not be being prevented from sailing away to join us, but have we shown them what the alternatives are so they can make an informed choice.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • Doing that would change what they have surely. IMHO if you can't be sure a change is wholly positive then don't make the change (sounds like my view of Brexit back in referendum days).

    Just read that family have forgiven his killers. More relevant is whether he can be forgiven! Afterall what he was about involved the high risk of exposing the population of that island to pathogens that they have no immunity to. Is the risk of killing a whole society worth it just to preach your own stupid beliefs to them? IMHO the family and whatever crackpot religious organisations he was involved in should be helped to understand he did a totally wrong act and should not be forgiven. If contact was made and the death of that society was the result, isn't that genocide?
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    edited November 2018
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-46300459

    That's it, send a helicopter! Jesus, leave the people alone, forget the body.
    One of the tribesmen shot at him with an arrow, which pierced his waterproof Bible
    he wrote: "You guys might think I'm crazy in all this but I think it's worthwhile to declare Jesus to these people".
    ...no mate, it is not worth it, it's not "crazy" either, it is downright stupid.
    He had taken scissors, safety pins and a football as gifts to the tribe, according to a source quoted by Reuters news agency who had access to his notes and asked not to be named.
    ...what a twàt. As if introducing them to any outside religion isn't stupid enough, the guy thinks he'll take them a football and some handy household objects. The extra stuff he took demonstrates his complete disregard for the effects on the tribe, and that they weren't limited to religious ones. (Not that their beaches wouldn't be strewn with our washed up rubbish).

    People are unbelievable, and whilst it is not nice that this guy was killed and his death will be heartbreaking for his family, there is no way he should have gone there, and religious reasons would be the most ridiculous ones that any sane, rational person could think of.
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