Oscar Pistorius
Comments
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FTFYrjsterry wrote:Rolf F wrote:rjsterry wrote:IIRC there have been break-ins within the compound previously - within the last 2 years, I think. Have you even read a precis of his statement, or the prosecution's case? And this is only the bail hearing; they haven't even started the trial yet.
Not heard any mention of other break ins but of course that could be possible. As for his statement - as far as i understand it, he heard a noise in the bathroom whilst lying in bed, asleep with his girlfriend and then fired shots ...
That's not what his statement said. Now obviously that's his version, but the prosecution's case doesn't look that watertight either. We seem to be extrapolating quite a lot from very little evidence.0 -
Il Principe wrote:Aside from the fact that Rolf's piece is wrong - OP is not claiming he was in bed at the time...
This is true - but it makes no difference. His statement says ""I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed". He was near enough, he was scared for his life, he was scared for Ms Steenkamps life yet he didn't even look to see that she was there? It was too dark for him to see Ms Steenkamp (or even joggle her awake to warn her) but it was light enough to see all sorts of other things around the bathroom.
It doesn't matter what the fine details are, for me the point is this. Either Pistorius explanation is correct or that of the prosecution is correct. For Pistorius to be telling the truth relies on
1) Pistorius to behave in a fairly bizarre manner
2) For Ms Steenkamp to behave in a bizarre manner
3) For the supposed burglar to behave in a bizarre manner (though of course the burglar never did exist and if you were panicking you'd not necessarily consider that the behaviour of the burglar in locking himself in the toilet was very odd).
For the prosectution to be correct all we have to believe is that they had a row, Ms Steenkamp ran and hid in the bathroom and Pistorius in his temper shot her. All sadly too believable.
Hopefully the truth will be determined either way.rjsterry wrote:Quite. The prosecution have implied that they have more that they can't reveal at present. Some pretty shocking holes in the police evidence so far: I found testosterone and needles - It wasn't testosterone - oh, I'm not sure, I didn't read the label.
Does seem to be being scarily incompetently handled by the police.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Now being reported that the lead detective was forced to admit that they didn't have any evidence that disproved Pistorius's statement.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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This gets more and more bizarre with the detective himself being charged with attempted murder, the nonsense about "Roids", the lack of evidence...ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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It does seem to me that the prosecution's case for premeditated murder is very weak, but even if Pistorius' account of events is absolutely true, to the letter, I can't see how he could avoid a conviction for manslaughter. To have fired four blind shots through a bathroom door, without having a clue who might be behind it, but knowing that SOMEONE was, seems to be reckless in the extreme. That is the kindest thing one could say about his actions.
I am all for people's rights to self defence, and not averse to their having guns to do it with, but this kind of trigger happy response - if indeed he thought there was a burglar - is nuts and must surely qualify for a manslaughter charge or one of culpable homicide.0 -
It's almost comical. Surely it isn't that hard in SA to find a detective who isn't on a charge of attempted murder himself to handle such a high profile case :roll:meanredspider wrote:This gets more and more bizarre with the detective himself being charged with attempted murder, the nonsense about "Roids", the lack of evidence...Hoopdriver wrote:It does seem to me that the prosecution's case for premeditated murder is very weak, but even if Pistorius' account of events is absolutely true, to the letter, I can't see how he could avoid a conviction for manslaughter.
I'd say that it looks almost certain that it is a case of murder but the incompetence of the proceedings may well let Pistorius off very lightly. The fact is that his account makes almost no sense whatsoever.
I wonder if anyone on here could see themselves taking the same actions (that Pistorius claims he took) in the same circumstances. You'd have to have a very casual attitude to human life to behave like that.Faster than a tent.......0 -
In SA? I'm not so sure...Rolf F wrote:Surely it isn't that hard in SA to find a detective who isn't on a charge of attempted murder himself...
The whole point about all this is that we aren't in the same circumstances. Victims of housebreaking in SA don't get a bit scared by having someone wave a knife at them: they get raped and murdered, beheaded and murdered, set on fire and murdered. I can sit in my safe Scottish home (we never lock the door when we're in by day, and sometimes not by night or when we're out) and tut about violence and cheapness of life, but it all depends on your viewpoint. If your viewpoint is from under the covers wondering whether the noise you can hear in your bathroom is someone who is going to kill you the moment they see you, that's a slightly different viewpoint.Rolf F wrote:I wonder if anyone on here could see themselves taking the same actions (that Pistorius claims he took) in the same circumstances. You'd have to have a very casual attitude to human life to behave like that.
That still leaves a dose of implausibility in his story, and it certainly still leaves the possibility that it is indeed a fiction to cover up cold-blooded murder, but I'm starting to get a bit riled by all the people who completely fail to understand that crime and security in SA are an altogether different issue to the UK.0 -
bompington wrote:I can sit in my safe Scottish home (we never lock the door when we're in by day, and sometimes not by night or when we're out) and tut about violence and cheapness of life, but it all depends on your viewpoint.
I do take your point - I'm expressing my opinion and it might be wrong. Ultimately though, if I had amassed a fortune and yet was terrified of the slightest sound in the night, I would spend more on my security. Or move somewhere nice. What on earth is the point of living somewhere that frightening if you don't have to?
It doesn't alter the fact that any non-pre meditated murder conclusion seems to rely on an awful lot of really odd behaviour, both before and during the event.bompington wrote:That still leaves a dose of implausibility in his story, and it certainly still leaves the possibility that it is indeed a fiction to cover up cold-blooded murder, but I'm starting to get a bit riled by all the people who completely fail to understand that crime and security in SA are an altogether different issue to the UK.
Again, I take your point. But equally, it might be fair to be riled by people making excuses for what is appalling behaviour (ie murder, if not premeditated) even if you take his story as the truth. I know I wouldn't have shot someone blind through a door. I'd have barricaded myself in the bedroom and called the police and ended up without a murder charge and dead girlfriend.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Apparently Nike have suspended their contract with OP!
Armstrong had been getting away with murder for years before they dropped him!!
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FoldingJoe wrote:Apparently Nike have suspended their contract with OP!
Armstrong had been getting away with murder for years before they dropped him!!
The OP, our very own rubbertoe had a contract with Nike? I'm impressed. :roll:Nobody told me we had a communication problem0 -
walkingbootweather wrote:FoldingJoe wrote:Apparently Nike have suspended their contract with OP!
Armstrong had been getting away with murder for years before they dropped him!!
The OP, our very own rubbertoe had a contract with Nike? I'm impressed. :roll:
Yes, didn't you know?
Nike will sponsor anybody with any sort of marketable commodity these days (Michelle Wie), and rubber toes is up there, certainly. Little boy to Obama: "My Dad says that you read all our emails"
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FoldingJoe wrote:walkingbootweather wrote:FoldingJoe wrote:Apparently Nike have suspended their contract with OP!
Armstrong had been getting away with murder for years before they dropped him!!
The OP, our very own rubbertoe had a contract with Nike? I'm impressed. :roll:
Yes, didn't you know?
Nike will sponsor anybody with any sort of marketable commodity these days (Michelle Wie), and rubber toes is up there, certainly.
I have no affiliation with Nike whatsoever, however if they are reading this and wish to lavish me with free stuff then they are more than welcome."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
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Rolf F wrote:bompington wrote:I can sit in my safe Scottish home (we never lock the door when we're in by day, and sometimes not by night or when we're out) and tut about violence and cheapness of life, but it all depends on your viewpoint.
I do take your point - I'm expressing my opinion and it might be wrong. Ultimately though, if I had amassed a fortune and yet was terrified of the slightest sound in the night, I would spend more on my security. Or move somewhere nice. What on earth is the point of living somewhere that frightening if you don't have to?
It doesn't alter the fact that any non-pre meditated murder conclusion seems to rely on an awful lot of really odd behaviour, both before and during the event.bompington wrote:That still leaves a dose of implausibility in his story, and it certainly still leaves the possibility that it is indeed a fiction to cover up cold-blooded murder, but I'm starting to get a bit riled by all the people who completely fail to understand that crime and security in SA are an altogether different issue to the UK.
Again, I take your point. But equally, it might be fair to be riled by people making excuses for what is appalling behaviour (ie murder, if not premeditated) even if you take his story as the truth. I know I wouldn't have shot someone blind through a door. I'd have barricaded myself in the bedroom and called the police and ended up without a murder charge and dead girlfriend.
His behaviour certainly seems odd, but people do irrational things all the time, even when they 'know' that it'll end badly. Obviously I'm not saying this proves his innocence, just that a murder conviction needs a darn sight more than "he was acting a bit strange, your honour".1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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rjsterry wrote:The prosecution have implied that they have more that they can't reveal at present.
Yeah - that their lead detective is himself facing charges of attempted murder. Great work!Hoopdriver wrote:even if Pistorius' account of events is absolutely true, to the letter, I can't see how he could avoid a conviction for manslaughter.
Not sure how it works in SA but I'm sure that would be the case here, given that he admits to firing the gun, presumably with an intent to kill someone. As I understand it, premeditated murder carries a mandatory life sentence, but manslaughter or its SA equivalent would give the judge a lot more leeway in sentencing. It may not even require a custodial sentence.Shut up, knees!
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bompington wrote:they get raped and murdered, beheaded and murdered, set on fire and murdered.
Sounds just like Dundee to me.... :shock:
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meanredspider wrote:bompington wrote:they get raped and murdered, beheaded and murdered, set on fire and murdered.
Sounds just like Dundee to me.... :shock:
Avoid Dundee - they're all fruit cakes....Nobody told me we had a communication problem0 -
Rolf F wrote:bompington wrote:I can sit in my safe Scottish home (we never lock the door when we're in by day, and sometimes not by night or when we're out) and tut about violence and cheapness of life, but it all depends on your viewpoint.
I do take your point - I'm expressing my opinion and it might be wrong. Ultimately though, if I had amassed a fortune and yet was terrified of the slightest sound in the night, I would spend more on my security. Or move somewhere nice. What on earth is the point of living somewhere that frightening if you don't have to?
It doesn't alter the fact that any non-pre meditated murder conclusion seems to rely on an awful lot of really odd behaviour, both before and during the event.bompington wrote:That still leaves a dose of implausibility in his story, and it certainly still leaves the possibility that it is indeed a fiction to cover up cold-blooded murder, but I'm starting to get a bit riled by all the people who completely fail to understand that crime and security in SA are an altogether different issue to the UK.
Again, I take your point. But equally, it might be fair to be riled by people making excuses for what is appalling behaviour (ie murder, if not premeditated) even if you take his story as the truth. I know I wouldn't have shot someone blind through a door. I'd have barricaded myself in the bedroom and called the police and ended up without a murder charge and dead girlfriend.
Liiiike. A secure gated development? Somewhere where yoiu could have two guard dogs in the yard? Somewhere, one might say, where you would feel secure enough to sleep at night with the balcony door open? :?0 -
Somewhere, one might say, where two break-ins have happened recently?0
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And yet where he feels comfortable enoiugh to sleep with the balcony door open.
I accept that there is a possibility that in a one in a million chance that his vesion of events stacks up. But the fact that she seems to have been dressed, with her mobile phone, in the bathroom, whilst he walked past the bed twice, not looking to see if she was even in bed before slamming 4 9mm shots into a confined space, just seems a little compelling to me. Especially when the first response afterwards was to call my brother and my lawyer and search for a memory stick containing the details of my offshore bank accounts!!
(Allegedly!))
In saying that, Mr Botha has certainly given the defence some room for manouvre. It'll be interesting to see how that afects the case.0 -
bompington wrote:Somewhere, one might say, where two break-ins have happened recently?
But, as Corriebee said, he was happy enough to sleep with the balcony door open!
I don't know - it just makes no sense at all unless he knew who he was shooting.
I still don't get how he was sleeping lightly enough to be woken up by the heat to bring a fan in from the balcony yet failed to notice his girlfriend get up, get dressed for some reason (impressive to do this in the supposed pitch dark), go to the toilet and flush it without Pistorius being aware of any of this. Too scared to switch a light on yet confident to go stalking with a gun?
What is curious is that he says the bedroom door was locked (and hence why he couldn't get his legs)- " I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps". Since he'd just been in bed, how could that have happened? How could it happen anyway? What house has internal doors that you can lock yourself out of? But then a few lines later he is rushing back in to the bedroom to get a cricket bat. " I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help".
Hopefully, even the SA ballistics specialists are competent enough to prove conclusively whether or not he was wearing his legs when he fired the shots. Similarly, given that his statement doesn't appear superficially to be very convincing, it should be very easy to break down during the trial if it is untrue.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Bail hearing just about to conclude
Likely bail will be granted."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
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rubertoe wrote:Likely bail will be granted.
Do you think he'll walk?Nobody told me we had a communication problem0 -
walkingbootweather wrote:rubertoe wrote:Likely bail will be granted.
Do you think he'll walk?
if not some one will be hopping mad, and it wont be Oscar."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
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A lot of time and money could be saved just by asking DDD if he thinks Pistorius is guilty; if he says that he doesn't believe, nor ever will believe in Pistorius guilt then we'll know he is guilty - and vice versa Faster than a tent.......0
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A good day for the BBC to bury bad news?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Granted bail (probably the right decision).Faster than a tent.......0
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Defence team can celebrate - let's hope they don't get legless<a>road</a>0
