Rider education, how do we spread the message?
Comments
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Bassjunkieuk wrote:@kierenb - I've also seen a few RLJer get nabbed, the most amusing one was possibly the last one I saw when a SS rider went through a red on The Mall by Horseguards only to be chased down by a police 4x4 that was parked behind the arch that leads to Trafalgar Square :-) I know I noticed it there as I rode through so good vision from the officers to see him do it!
The police could make a bloody killing from RLJ'ers, a couple of times in the last year I've seen them mob handed at the junction of Lower Thames/Southwark Bridge where they had a mixture of motorcycle and MB coppers dishing out fines and warnings. I can't help feeling if there was more of a presence dotted around London then it would sink into the RLJ psyche. I guess they have bigger fish to fry though.......Bassjunkieuk wrote:There is a police van in the queue and a police car at the front! The worst part is they didn't seem to make any effort to catch him - not that I think they would have been able to with putting the sirens and lights on as traffic was solid once our changed and he was already heading towards the second r/b to carry on (presumably) rlj'ing further on his route.
I saw something similar earlier this summer. Sat at the pedestrian lights outside Whitechapel Hospital, me in the bus lane, a cop car to the right of me when a guy on a rusty old MB goes straight through the red light. I turn to look at the coppers at they just seemed oblivious at what he'd done.
300 yds later at The Blind Beggar lights, it's again a red and the guy slows down, weaves through the peds crossing the road and swerves round the traffic passing slowly from left to right. I look round at the coppers and through the open window suggest that they do something (I actually said something like 'book him then Danno' :oops:) and the passenger copper said that it was too much hassle because they were BTP.....absolutely ridiculous.0 -
rhext wrote:My own view is that a small minority of motorists hate us anyway, largely because they perceive us as obstructions, and red light jumping is simply one of the excuses used to 'justify' their feelings and, occasionally, bad behaviour. Along with non-payment of road tax.
Not disagreeing with this at all. It's not the only stick either of course too.
However from talking to anyone and everyone who isn't already a cyclist or doesn't know you and your views already - jumping red lights, going through ped crossings and being on the pavement are all assumed to be done unless you say otherwise. There are numerous examples on here that will back this up - but please do go ask anyone in your office/street etc. Majority view while totally incorrect is that majority of cyclists break the law in these three areas.
So yes, there is and very likely ALWAYS will be people who hate us anyway because of what we do. What we have to fix is the incorrect assumptions of the rest AND the behaviour of the cyclists that ARE guilty of bringing this reputation on the rest of us.Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]0 -
MonkeyMonster wrote:rhext wrote:My own view is that a small minority of motorists hate us anyway, largely because they perceive us as obstructions, and red light jumping is simply one of the excuses used to 'justify' their feelings and, occasionally, bad behaviour. Along with non-payment of road tax.
Not disagreeing with this at all. It's not the only stick either of course too.
However from talking to anyone and everyone who isn't already a cyclist or doesn't know you and your views already - jumping red lights, going through ped crossings and being on the pavement are all assumed to be done unless you say otherwise. There are numerous examples on here that will back this up - but please do go ask anyone in your office/street etc. Majority view while totally incorrect is that majority of cyclists break the law in these three areas.
So yes, there is and very likely ALWAYS will be people who hate us anyway because of what we do. What we have to fix is the incorrect assumptions of the rest AND the behaviour of the cyclists that ARE guilty of bringing this reputation on the rest of us.
My argument is not that people don't perceive 'cyclists' as doing this stuff. I just don't accept the logical leap of faith which says 'and therefore we are all in more danger as a result'. If I were to wave a magic wand tonight and stop all cyclists from jumping red lights tomorrow, I don't believe that my own day-to-day experience as a cyclist would improve one iota.
My view is that we're unpopular with motorists because we're perceived to encroach on their space, thereby slowing them down. RLJ, pavement cycling, pedestrian crossing misuse are just excuses used to crystallise that general frustration. If you could get rid of pavement cycling and RLJing overnight, do you think cars would move more or less freely around a city like London? And if, as I suspect, the answer is 'less freely', do you think that motorists will be more or less hostile to cyclists?0 -
Isn't the problem that most drivers don't realize what is actually causing them to have delays? They assume slow cyclist=slow moving traffic when in pretty much all instances it is sheet volume of cars that can't move. After all if they look just past the bonnet of their tin box and around at the outside world beyond themselves they might realize they are indeed surrounded by cars, buses, lorries etc that AREN'T moving.
I think it would be extremely helpful if they could make the Cycle Superhighway signs larger so car drivers might actually pay attention to them. The travel times on there are for your average CS user but even still are probably about 1/2 the time it takes in car during the rush hour.
Other ideas could be billboards with "Bicycles: 1/2 the wheels. 1/2 the time" (I know it's not grammatically perfect but you get the jist hopefully....) or the amusing one I saw on ipayroadtax: "Cars - Run on money and make you fat Bikes: Run on fat and save you money" :-)0 -
I get abuse from cars who have stopped behind me at the lights.
Pretty sure that's nothing to do with people who jump red lights.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I get abuse from cars who have stopped behind me at the lights.
Pretty sure that's nothing to do with people who jump red lights.
That's partly my point: there seems to me to be an underlying assumption here that if all cyclists obeyed red lights we'd irritate people less. But if you look at the 'numptys' threads on here, you quickly get the impression that the worst offenders are also the least competent and slowest. So instead of the numptys pootling along the pavements and drifting through the red lights as they find them, they're now pootling along the roads and stacking up at the junctions waiting for the lights to change, before pootling of again.... Yep, I can easily see how that would make motorists like us more!!!!!0
