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Dreadful service received - any options?

bobtbuilderbobtbuilder Posts: 1,537
edited September 2009 in Road beginners
I recently received my new Orbea Orca from Epic Cycles after a hefty delay.

On my first real ride I noticed that there was somethign wrong with the gearing. When in the largest rear sprocket, if I tried to change gear, the chain would try to shift again to a non-existant sprocket.

I was riding back home to take a look at this when I made the same shift and the chain actually shifted off the cluster and into the wheel, snapping one of the spokes.

I spoke to Epic about this, and they told me that it couldn't be their fault as they double-check all their bikes before delivery. It was suggested to me that the rear mech hanger may have been knocked in transit (although it looks ok to me). Epic offered to make the repairs to the bike, but would not cover the cost of a courier to send the bike to them, even if it turns out that it was a set up error by them.

It's actually cheaper and much more convenient for me to take the bike to a LBS, but I feel that the service from Epic has been abysmal.

Am I expecting too much after sales service (I spent £3K) with them, or is there a way I can take this further?

Many thanks,

Rob
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Posts

  • FiferFifer Posts: 60
    Sorry to hear about your problems. Not sure what you can do against the company that sold you the bike but this is a perfect example of why I would never buy an expensive bike from an online retailer.

    How much is the courier going to be to send the bike back?
    Winter Bike: Specialized Allez Elite
    Summer Bike: Specialized Tarmac Pro SL
  • flasherflasher Posts: 1,731
    You noticed something was wrong yet you persisted with the same gear change anyway, sounds like you were asking for trouble.

    Get the work done by your LBS, shouldn't cost more than a few quid. Maybe send the bill on to Epic see what they say but don't expect them to cough up but if they do consider it a bonus.
  • bobtbuilderbobtbuilder Posts: 1,537
    edited September 2009
    You noticed something was wrong yet you persisted with the same gear change anyway, sounds like you were asking for trouble.

    At the time I wasn't aware it was the same shift. I was trying to get back home and shifted to an easier gear to get up a hill. I didn't realise I was in the smallest gear already. Visually checking what sprocket I'm in before shifting isn't something I usually need to do.
    How much is the courier going to be to send the bike back?

    About £35. The LBS repair is going to be about £25.
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    It does sound like the limit adjuster screw wasn't set right. I guess it could be the rear mech hanger - even a very slight twist can upset the shifting.

    But I kind of agree with Flasher - if you knew something wasn't right then why didn't you avoid doing it? You must have know that if the chain unshipped and went between the cassette and spokes then it'd not be a good thing and would likely cause some damage.
    More problems but still living....
  • You may and before I get flamed I stress may get some joy out I think it's the sale of goods act which states that the product you buy must be fit for purpose and that if it develops a fault within the first 6 months then it's the responsiblity of the retailer to prove that it wasn't faulty when they sold it to you. However as has been stated already you should have stopped using the bike as soon as you noticed the 'fault' and advised epic Cycles that there was a problem and given them an opportunity to resolve it but as you continued to use it knowing it was faulty and ended up damagin other parts I think you may have blown it.

    Also under distance selling regulations you also have a cooling off period of 7 days.

    More details here
    http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • However as has been stated already you should have stopped using the bike as soon as you noticed the 'fault' and advised epic Cycles that there was a problem and given them an opportunity to resolve it but as you continued to use it knowing it was faulty and ended up damagin other parts I think you may have blown it.

    I only noticed this 18 miles into a ride as it was the first time I used the lowest gear. I had no other way of getting home except (a) riding or (b) walking in cleats.
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I think the shop is out of order. Most likely the limit screw wasn't set, and regardless of their system of checks, it is most likely an error or oversight - these things happen. They should be big enough to own up to it.

    I don't think you did anything wrong, other than making a mistake by accidentally doing the same shift again - on your faulty bike.

    I would be saying to Epic that they have 7 days to collect the bike and repair it, all at their cost, or you will be rejecting the goods as faulty and be seeking a full refund and recompense for other costs, through the small claims court if necessary.

    They may prefer to pay you to take it to the LBS for a fix.

    Some years ago I bought a bike from Merlin cycles. It arrived with one wheel out of true, they told me to take it to the LBS and they refunded the cost. I then found a rear mech alignment problem, and I also didn't like the squeal of the xt v-brakes. They arranged a courier, within the week I had the bike returned to me fixed and with xtr v brakes fitted, FOC. This is how shops should treat customers when there are problems.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,148
    You can't crtitisize epic cycles. Forum Rule.

    I gave them a wide berth when they wanted £100 to use a cyclescheme voucher. - and couldn't get me a test ride on the bike I wanted.
  • The crux of the matter is that you want to be back on your shiny new steed asap.
    I think that I would pay the LBS the £25 odd quid for the repair as that is still cheaper that the courier. I would then speak to Epic and see if they would cover the cost or, at worst, give you a £25 credit against something you need (some tubes perhaps). If they refuse then for the sake of £25 put it down to experience and spend the rest of your days slagging Epic and their customer service off on here to all and sundry. :lol:
  • However as has been stated already you should have stopped using the bike as soon as you noticed the 'fault' and advised epic Cycles that there was a problem and given them an opportunity to resolve it but as you continued to use it knowing it was faulty and ended up damagin other parts I think you may have blown it.

    I only noticed this 18 miles into a ride as it was the first time I used the lowest gear. I had no other way of getting home except (a) riding or (b) walking in cleats.

    Im appreciate you had to get home but you presumably had access to all the other gears without needing to go right to the top of the cassette where there was a chance it would go into the spokes and as happened break something which makes your case much harder to argue, surely you could have used the next gear down to get home and then got on the blower to Epic.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    However as has been stated already you should have stopped using the bike as soon as you noticed the 'fault' and advised epic Cycles that there was a problem and given them an opportunity to resolve it but as you continued to use it knowing it was faulty and ended up damagin other parts I think you may have blown it.

    I only noticed this 18 miles into a ride as it was the first time I used the lowest gear. I had no other way of getting home except (a) riding or (b) walking in cleats.

    Im appreciate you had to get home but you presumably had access to all the other gears without needing to go right to the top of the cassette where there was a chance it would go into the spokes and as happened break something which makes your case much harder to argue, surely you could have used the next gear down to get home and then got on the blower to Epic.

    Schlep - he made a mistake, and one less serious than that made by a professional mechanic preparing a £3k bike - why in this country we are such wimps when it comes to consumer issues, and prefer to blame the victim, is beyond me! You get the service you deserve!
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I can guarantee you that I would not be out of pocket if this happened to me!
  • If the LBS want's £25 to replace a broken spoke and adjust the limit screw, I'd find another LBS (unless there is something else wrong?)

    Surpised at Epic's attitude though - never heard anything but priase from them previously.
    Carlsberg don't make cycle clothing, but if they did it would probably still not be as good as Assos
  • The thing about the sales of goods act is that the supplier has the responsibility to repair the goods if they develop a fault. Epic cycles have offered to do this. However just as if you had bought a bike from a shop 5 miles away it would be your responsibility to return the bike to them, the same is true if you buy it from someone 200 miles away.

    However a responsible retailer may decide that to keep the customer happy so that they will return and reccomend to others to bear the cost of a repair at a LBS. It would therefore be worth persuing that as an option.
  • skinsonskinson Posts: 362
    Hmm! So that's Epic cycles and Ribble who give censored servic!!! I wonder who's next? :?
    Dave
  • Thanks Alfablue - I may try the militant approach as suggested.

    I would be slightly mollified if they gave me some form of compensation or credit against the (unlikely) prospect of future purchases.
  • alfablue wrote:
    However as has been stated already you should have stopped using the bike as soon as you noticed the 'fault' and advised epic Cycles that there was a problem and given them an opportunity to resolve it but as you continued to use it knowing it was faulty and ended up damagin other parts I think you may have blown it.

    I only noticed this 18 miles into a ride as it was the first time I used the lowest gear. I had no other way of getting home except (a) riding or (b) walking in cleats.

    Im appreciate you had to get home but you presumably had access to all the other gears without needing to go right to the top of the cassette where there was a chance it would go into the spokes and as happened break something which makes your case much harder to argue, surely you could have used the next gear down to get home and then got on the blower to Epic.

    Schlep - he made a mistake, and one less serious than that made by a professional mechanic preparing a £3k bike - why in this country we are such wimps when it comes to consumer issues, and prefer to blame the victim, is beyond me! You get the service you deserve!

    Honestly I'm not trying to blame him I was trying to help by pointing him at the sale of goods act and the distance selling regs all I was trying to point out was that if you continue to use something that you know or suspect to be faulty to the extent that it causes it to break then I'm not sure what your position is.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    skinson wrote:
    Hmm! So that's Epic cycles and Ribble who give censored servic!!! I wonder who's next? :?
    Dave
    Not a good idea to generalise from one incident - but also, no reason why a consumer should accept the "one off" bad incident. Most of the time Epic get a very good rep, but that doesn't mean this guy should put up and shut up, does it?

    Other shops have large numbers of bad customer experiences, and these people rightly complain.

    What is it with some people that we aren't supposed to say when things are bad or not right? In my work all hell breaks loose if errors are made, and we have to take the consequences. What is so special about a bike shop that they are deemed to be beyond criticism? What is the point of statutory rights for consumers, when so often they want to roll over and turn the other cheek?

    Weird! :?
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    alfablue wrote:
    However as has been stated already you should have stopped using the bike as soon as you noticed the 'fault' and advised epic Cycles that there was a problem and given them an opportunity to resolve it but as you continued to use it knowing it was faulty and ended up damagin other parts I think you may have blown it.

    I only noticed this 18 miles into a ride as it was the first time I used the lowest gear. I had no other way of getting home except (a) riding or (b) walking in cleats.

    Im appreciate you had to get home but you presumably had access to all the other gears without needing to go right to the top of the cassette where there was a chance it would go into the spokes and as happened break something which makes your case much harder to argue, surely you could have used the next gear down to get home and then got on the blower to Epic.

    Schlep - he made a mistake, and one less serious than that made by a professional mechanic preparing a £3k bike - why in this country we are such wimps when it comes to consumer issues, and prefer to blame the victim, is beyond me! You get the service you deserve!

    Honestly I'm not trying to blame him I was trying to help by pointing him at the sale of goods act and the distance selling regs all I was trying to point out was that if you continue to use something that you know or suspect to be faulty to the extent that it causes it to break then I'm not sure what your position is.
    Sorry, too quick off the mark. Well, I think the bottom line is that the damage occurred because of bad setup by the shop (most probably), and whilst the user maybe could have avoided the consequential damage, I don't think the user should be deemed to be an expert in this matter and as such his error (which would not be an error unless the bike was faulty) should not relieve the seller of liability, in my view.
  • stevie63 wrote:
    The thing about the sales of goods act is that the supplier has the responsibility to repair the goods if they develop a fault. Epic cycles have offered to do this. However just as if you had bought a bike from a shop 5 miles away it would be your responsibility to return the bike to them, the same is true if you buy it from someone 200 miles away.

    It is different because he could use the distance selling regulations which give him 7 days from the date of receipt to accept or reject the item for ANY reason.....even if he didn't like the colour, then all he has to do is give the retailer a reasonable(I think the specifics are in the regs) amount of time to collect the goods at their expense and give him a refund or replacement, the OP doesn't have to pay to return the item to the retailer.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • say you bought a car and the wheelnuts on one wheel weren't done up...
  • stevie63 wrote:
    The thing about the sales of goods act is that the supplier has the responsibility to repair the goods if they develop a fault. Epic cycles have offered to do this. However just as if you had bought a bike from a shop 5 miles away it would be your responsibility to return the bike to them, the same is true if you buy it from someone 200 miles away.

    It is different because he could use the distance selling regulations which give him 7 days from the date of receipt to accept or reject the item for ANY reason.....even if he didn't like the colour, then all he has to do is give the retailer a reasonable(I think the specifics are in the regs) amount of time to collect the goods at their expense and give him a refund or replacement, the OP doesn't have to pay to return the item to the retailer.

    But surely to reject in this way, it would have to be unused?
    Carlsberg don't make cycle clothing, but if they did it would probably still not be as good as Assos
  • Do you want to deal with this company again?

    If you're not really bothered about ever speaking to them again you could go the whole hog and beat them with the sale of goods act, distance selling regulations and their local trading standards.

    I think you're in the right to claim that there was a defect with the bike, it's also not unreasonable for you to continue to use the bike even with a fault in order to get home.

    Should they agree to recover and repair the bike at their cost it is not impossible for them to be sh|tty and hold onto the bike as long as they can, say 20 working days (one month). If they've taken a long time to deliver in the first place....

    Being pragmatic. I'd have the bike checked out by an LBS and an LBS that is franchised for Orbea if possible. If it's just adjustment and a spoke and it's not much money you might be better just to get it fixed and move on. Write a snippy letter to Epic if it makes you feel better.

    If the LBS finds more damage or something expensive is wrong I'd reject the bike and get your money back. That'll probably be easier and quicker than trying to sort out a repair.
  • cjwcjw Posts: 1,889
    stevie63 wrote:
    The thing about the sales of goods act is that the supplier has the responsibility to repair the goods if they develop a fault. Epic cycles have offered to do this. However just as if you had bought a bike from a shop 5 miles away it would be your responsibility to return the bike to them, the same is true if you buy it from someone 200 miles away.

    It is different because he could use the distance selling regulations which give him 7 days from the date of receipt to accept or reject the item for ANY reason.....even if he didn't like the colour, then all he has to do is give the retailer a reasonable(I think the specifics are in the regs) amount of time to collect the goods at their expense and give him a refund or replacement, the OP doesn't have to pay to return the item to the retailer.

    No that's incorrect. If you return goods under the "cooling off period" clause of the distance selling regs, the consumer pays for return of goods. If the goods are rejected because they are faulty it is up to the seller to pay for return of the goods.
    London to Paris Forum
    http://cjwoods.com/london2paris

    Scott Scale 10
    Focus Izalco Team
  • antflyantfly Posts: 3,276
    I can`t understand why you would want to send a bike back with a broken spoke, presumably you saved a packet by buying online so just get it fixed at your LBS, send them the bill as someone said,I don`t blame them not wanting to pay for a courier for your bike. You should have checked your gears before you rode it anyway.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • cjwcjw Posts: 1,889
    stevie63 wrote:
    The thing about the sales of goods act is that the supplier has the responsibility to repair the goods if they develop a fault. Epic cycles have offered to do this. However just as if you had bought a bike from a shop 5 miles away it would be your responsibility to return the bike to them, the same is true if you buy it from someone 200 miles away.

    It is different because he could use the distance selling regulations which give him 7 days from the date of receipt to accept or reject the item for ANY reason.....even if he didn't like the colour, then all he has to do is give the retailer a reasonable(I think the specifics are in the regs) amount of time to collect the goods at their expense and give him a refund or replacement, the OP doesn't have to pay to return the item to the retailer.

    But surely to reject in this way, it would have to be unused?

    No, the regs state you must take reasonable care of the items - not that they must be unused (some items fall outside these regs such as software and CD's). To inspect the goods in the case of a bike you would need to try it out and this would be OK under the regs.
    London to Paris Forum
    http://cjwoods.com/london2paris

    Scott Scale 10
    Focus Izalco Team
  • cjw wrote:
    stevie63 wrote:
    The thing about the sales of goods act is that the supplier has the responsibility to repair the goods if they develop a fault. Epic cycles have offered to do this. However just as if you had bought a bike from a shop 5 miles away it would be your responsibility to return the bike to them, the same is true if you buy it from someone 200 miles away.

    It is different because he could use the distance selling regulations which give him 7 days from the date of receipt to accept or reject the item for ANY reason.....even if he didn't like the colour, then all he has to do is give the retailer a reasonable(I think the specifics are in the regs) amount of time to collect the goods at their expense and give him a refund or replacement, the OP doesn't have to pay to return the item to the retailer.

    No that's incorrect. If you return goods under the "cooling off period" clause of the distance selling regs, the consumer pays for return of goods. If the goods are rejected because they are faulty it is up to the seller to pay for return of the goods.

    No that's not true, under the distance selling regulations the consumer is under no obligation to return the goosds to the supplier all they have to do is retain possession of them and take reasonable care of them. The non return of the goods does not allow the supplier to not process the refund to the consumer
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • cjwcjw Posts: 1,889
    That is correct for faulty goods. Not for returning goods under the 7 day cooling off...

    Hang on I'll post a link in a bit...
    London to Paris Forum
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    Scott Scale 10
    Focus Izalco Team
  • cjwcjw Posts: 1,889
    When consumers exercise their right to cancel they are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods and to “restore” them to the supplier. The term “restore” does not permit the supplier to demand that the consumer send back or deliver the goods, but only that the goods are made available to the supplier for collection.

    The Regulations permit the supplier to include in the contract a term requiring the consumer to return the goods to the supplier at their own cost. The supplier may charge for the direct costs of recovering the goods if, on request, the consumer does not return them; this must not be more than the direct costs of recovery, such as postage or, for larger items, the cost of a van collection. Once the consumer has cancelled the order all money paid must be returned within 30 days of the date of cancellation.

    The business is not entitled to charge for recovery of the goods if the consumer also has a statutory right to cancel the contract under other legislation, (for example because they are defective) or if the term requiring the consumer to return the goods is an ‘‘unfair term’’ within the meaning of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts (Amendment) Regulations 2001.


    Almost all contracts state that customer pays. But if they didn't, then you are correct.
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  • cjwcjw Posts: 1,889
    And this is the case for Epic. Their terms state customer pays.
    If you are unhappy for any reason with an item that you have mail ordered from us, either over the telephone or electronically, simply return the item to us unused, in its original condition, and securely packaged, within 7 days of receipt. Please include a note within the packaging to let us know the reason for the return and a copy of the invoice or receipt that included the item. We will issue a full refund (for bespoke items please see following paragraph), less any postage costs associated with the return and any refund charges imposed by your credit card company. You will be responsible for the returned item until it reaches us, so please ensure that your return shipment is adequately insured.
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    Scott Scale 10
    Focus Izalco Team
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