Automotive Genius

jellybellywmb · June 2007

Driving along happily this morning,barke fir roundabout and dashboard lit up with warning lights and a message brake sytem fault and a big stop sign.
Pulled over and called garage to ask what the problem was and whether it was safe to continue 6 miles to the nearest Renault dealer.
After a 5 min wait a girl said " We think it may be a problem with your brakes"

No, really.

Is it safe to continue to the garage

"Might be, might not be can't really tell,can you drop it into us and we will have a look and let you know"

[:X][:0]

GOBSMACKED

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Unknown · June 2007

firstly
"dashboard lit up with warning lights and a message brake sytem fault and a big stop sign."
doesn't MEAN it's a brake fault, you could have a vacuum pump issue and that could lead to a drop in pressure of the brakes, so the problems doesn't specifically happen to be with the brakes.
Most likely you have a ABS sensor failed and need it replacing. again it's part of the braking system but it's not the brakes... so she was fairly right with her comments.

the only way should could tell is by reading the "P" code from the EMS using a diagnostic tool. Sometimes these "P" codes are converted to more meaningful text say ina Volvo S80/60 etc.

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jellybellywmb · June 2007

So is it not commmmon to refer to the full braking system as "The brakes"
When desribing the brakes on your bike do you list each component idavidually or just say "The Brakes"

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Unknown · June 2007

your thinking man logic here you need to think woman logic.

shoes are not JUST shoes,
shoes are
high heels
boots
flats
sandles
etc etc..

if you drive your car into our place saying you had a problem with "the brakes" we would check the braking system. But a problem with the brakes is either the pads/discs/calipers. a "braking" problem covers the systems, if i pulled your ABS sensor out your front wheel your dash would light up like a christmas tree but your brakes would be fine, if your pad depth sensor failed and all the same lights would light up as a failed ABS sensor and would still be drivable but no one could tell the difference between the two faults until the "P" code errors were read.

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naz-t · June 2007

aye got the same fault on the vw, abs sensors knackered brakes work fine just that sodding light on the dash.

Unknown · June 2007

they work fine till the system calls the ABS into action then ALL hell brakes (geddit) loose.

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Andy B · June 2007

Something similar happened in my last car (Seat Ibiza), a dashboard full of warning lights!

A very, very hard brake pedal too, I had to stand on the pedal to get the car to slow down! Just crawled to my local garage, luckily an independent Seat garage, where they told me that there had been a recall on the car due to the brake servo packing up!

Got it fixed, them about 3 months later a letter from Seat UK telling me about the recall for the brake servo problem. How goddamn slow? it was lucky that the servo packed up locally, if it'd have been out on the motorway I'd have had major trouble stopping in an emergency [:o]

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Unknown · June 2007

That is made sounds abit like some of the people in halfords [;)]

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Unknown · June 2007

you can't expect the girl to know your EXACT fault and give you an answer as if it safe to drive and therefore admit liability IF the system failed and you had an accident.

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ratty2k · June 2007

Had ALL the lights come on on my Hilux- bit of a panic and smell of burning[:0] Found out the alternator had fried itself, new one fitted and all the problems went away. Followed shortly afterwards, by selling the thing. Although, I really wished I'd kept it now........

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Unknown · June 2007

Furthermore, if the garage you called was not the 'nearest Renault dealer' you were going to head to, then 'Why should I care?' might have been a more appropriate response

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Unknown · June 2007

roundabout, brake warning lights normally means low fluid level.

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Unknown · June 2007

If the lights still on, it's more likely to be low brake pads (once the sensor wire gets worn through, the light will stay on).

If it was an ABS fault, it would explicitly state that. Any fault with the ABS, which may affect the performance of the ABS system, should display a visual ABS warning (ie. a dedicated warning lamp, or via a multifunction display).

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Unknown · June 2007

yer but MC given he says this
"dashboard lit up with warning lights and a message brake sytem fault and a big stop sign."
it's hard to guess what system is at fault. i'd bet the ABS sensor gone for a song though. A pad low warning on a Renault illuminates the handbrake light and / or the low brake fluid light.

ABS sensor fault would light ABS and warning lights constantly.

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Unknown · June 2007

Any messages I've seen, usually say ABS fault.
Brake fault to me indicates something mechanical.

Other easy way to tell, is ABS warnings are usually orange (to indicate reduced system functionality, but still driveable), whereas brake warnings are red (to indicate a serious fault, and to stop as soon as possible).

But given it's a Renault, it could be anything. Probably something fallen off, or a wire corroded. Or the softwares had one of it's regular mood swings, and decided not to play nice!

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jellybellywmb · June 2007

Its in for diagnostics tomorrow (Lift bonnet, rub chin, close bonnet)
So I will let you know what the outcome was.
Mean time enterprise have kindly lent me a Vauxhall Zafira (Woohoo) and in the next few days I have to drive from leicester to wolverhampton to Frimley to Cardiff to Swansea to Portishead to Bristol to Swindon and then home so should be able to give a review of the brand new 07 Zafira.

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Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mc

Any messages I've seen, usually say ABS fault.
Brake fault to me indicates something mechanical.

Other easy way to tell, is ABS warnings are usually orange (to indicate reduced system functionality, but still driveable), whereas brake warnings are red (to indicate a serious fault, and to stop as soon as possible).

But given it's a Renault, it could be anything. Probably something fallen off, or a wire corroded. Or the softwares had one of it's regular mood swings, and decided not to play nice!

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
LOL you have no idea how much that rings true in my ears..

we have a 1991 GTI with an oil warning pressure light on, the wire had rubbed up the gearbox housing and shorted thats the only problem with a 120k mile car over 16 years old, a C5 2005 had 1 turbo, altinator, software patches and numerous other visits to the garage.. load of tosh.. give me a pre odb car any day.. or a flash ECU anyday.

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Unknown · June 2007

OI!!!! i make that software and systems for those chin scratchers..

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jellybellywmb · June 2007

Nothing personal,just a dig at the overwhelming poor service from garages.
I do in excess of 60,000 miles a year which equates to 7+ service visits a year.
I dread each and every one because after each service I get problems i.e never had a problem with brakes (or braking systems)car was serviced 2 weeks ago,new pads and discs hey presto braking fault.

Last service all fluids changed,1 week later car overheats as coolant system is empty (new core plugs needed ,whatever they may be)

When these thing happen the only answer you get is bring it in and we will run diagnostics.

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Unknown · June 2007

Jelly "company" garages are a bunch of muppets you should see some of the plebs we get into our place for training.. some couldn't even work out a 2 speed ratio let alone a 3/4 speed on a car driveshaft..

recent specials include 15 litres of oil in a car for a service, not locking the pullies for a timing belt change or leaving the locks in place and starting the car, power steering pumps not working (due to blown fuses) etc etc.. no wonder the standards are falling in "badged brand car garages" (there are still some great techs in those garages but the "kids" that are going into those places that do the general servicing on your cars are awful) i'm just glad i know an excellent privately owned garage and don't have to use a branded one..

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ratty2k · June 2007

Fozz, that reminds me of a mate of mine......

I had serviced his car for him, new brakes, filters etc. I went to wash up and told hime to fill it with oil.... which he literally took at face value and only stopped putting oil in, when it was level with the filler cap[:D]

He quickly learned how to drain it, needles to say[;)]

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jellybellywmb · June 2007

Totally agree Fozzy, I only use main dealers for my company car as I have to. My own car goes to a little Independant who I know I can totally trust to do a proper job. They are up to date on all the latest diagnostics but are still proper old school mechanics.
Its a shame that this type of garage is going to be hit hard if the goverment get thier way with the new rules for MOT .

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Unknown · June 2007

micra in, done 86k miles, never been serviced and lets say the oil is like jelly.

3 engine flushes later and it's starting to move...
stupid girl.

we are working on a tool jelly [;)] for that.

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Unknown · June 2007

I can only agree with the comments about garages.

Having worked in a fleet workshop for 7 years now, I know just how much crap main dealers tell you, more so the ones that are part of major dealer groups. I've seen main dealers not being able to sort blatantly obvious faults (ford fiesta cut-out, and would only start and run for a few seconds at most. When it eventually got recovered back to us, after having sat in the dealership for a fortnight with 'major electrical issues', all it needed was a new turbo), been told blatant lies (the clutch failed - it pretty much self destructed - on a rover 75, because we serviced it too early!), or the 'oh it's a big company, we'll fleece them' (honda dealer said a complete new seat frame was needed for a week old CRV at our cost, after the adjusment handle came of in the drivers hand, which was sorted using a single part supplied under warranty, after Honda UK were contacted).

And if their repairs go wrong, there's the endless list of excuses rather than just admitting they done it wrong, and sorting it.

Then there's the modern technology. Having stood in a major manufacturer's training college, and witnessed one of their main dealer courses on diesel engines, it really does highlight just how idiot proof the courses have to be (I mean taking over 30minutes to identify major components is quite frankly taking the proverbial), but it does highlight the 'skill' of some of the 'technicians' employed by main dealers. I think top requirements for working in dealers are, Being able to talk your way out of anything, being able to spot gullible people, overlooking loss making faults that'll affect your bonus, and not giving a toss about customer vehicles.

As is reguarly stated, diagnostic kit is only as good as the person using it, but there's still alot of managers who think that having an all signing all dancing computer means that it'll be able to do all the work (a computer can't tell the difference between a wiring fault, a faulty component, a faulty ECU, or a mechanical fault - it can only point you in the right direction). Then there's the new generation of technicians, who think the diagnostic kit has all the answers - 'The mass air flow meters faulty', erm, so the big hole in the intercooler has nothing to do with that fault then?

Ooops, and I'd better stop ranting now!

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Unknown · June 2007

MC we are totally on the same wave length.. i'll not join you in your mild rant [;)] but i hear your words and they ring so true to my ears.

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Unknown · June 2007

I forgot to mention in that last post, that there are still some good techs about. It's just a case of finding them!

I could write several pages about the problems we've had with dealers (I don't think there's a single dealer that we've used through work, that we've not had problems with), but I'm tired (was at work for 12 hours today [:(]), and am on early shift this week [xx(]

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Unknown · June 2007

we have some great techs but i wouldn't trust my aircon guy with my diesel systems and my garage tech'y with my aircon [;)]

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Unknown · June 2007

Air-con is simple though. [;)]

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Unknown · June 2007

hehe you think!! [;)]

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Unknown · June 2007

The basic air-con system is relatively simple.
It's how it's controlled that can get complicated!

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Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mc

Air-con is simple though. [;)]

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

yes it is. i spent years designing then to be nice and simple.
[:(!] one of the latest V6's was a PIG to route. there was just not enough room.

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