A discusion on linkage brakes.(floating calipers).

wwjjtt · May 2007

i personally am pretty sick of reading forum threads about shal i buy this or this? you can look on the net and research it. however when i posted a thread about brake therapy, for the simple reason that i have recearched and come to a dead end, my forum gets locked by nicklouse.

he states "there is no one interested in brake therapy in the UK". ummm well i am?!?! and i'm trying to find other peoples oppinions and experences-isn't that what the forum is for nick? or is it for idiots like you to have a power trip and net nerds to ask weather to buy a v10 or a sunday, even though they can never afford one?

i'm trying not to be to s**ty about this, but i was looking for some genuine responses and my threads just got locked. i obey the rules and do a search first but get my thread locked just cause an administrator isn't interested??? thats a great way to run a forum!

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

ajdriver · May 2007

I must also add that I thought one of my threads were removed for no good reason. The advice is great on some subjects, but not getting the impression this is such a friendly forum.
Please prove me wrong

The Joe Show · May 2007

You have obviously misunderstood.

What Nick means is that currently Brake Therapy is not availible in the UK because there is no market for it. Unfortunately, just you does not count as a whole market.

And remember that the US is in a different time frame so being patient and waiting for a reply via email is a good idea rather than getting ratty at the mods.

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nicklouse · May 2007

right we have one very nice topic on brake therapy linkages and the reason i locked your first one was; 1 it was answered and 2; there was already a topic where discusion was growing and before you start of about nerd trips ( yes i put your comments together) if you had asked about where etc in it you would have got a better responce from me.

brake therapy did have an agent in the UK many years ago but they soon stopped the import as there was no/little interest, and one reason is that us leavel headed Nation dont buy into Hype. the Americans and Kona love Hype.

please read this http://www.mundobiker.es/content/view/239/105/1/1/#BISL and then if you really wish spend more money on your bike to make it heavier while we all spend money to make your bikes either lighter or more reliable.

finally the front brake does the braking and the rear does the steering.

if you want a discusion on engineering or suspension systems please come a visit.

So do i lock this and we all continue the discusion in the brake therapy topic or do we start yet another or do we just chatter on in here?

nick
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wwjjtt · May 2007

ok thanks for some reasoning. end of was a bit sharp don't you think?

however, if there was no market, why did kona, one of the biggest bike companies, release it on the 07 stinky? just a thought. as for hype, well yea but i can see how it works and would be interested to test it, but i'll leave the point on this forum cause it's obviously not welcome.

oh and joe i know the us is 6-10 hrs behind. i didn't send the e mail today! it's been weeks.

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

however, if there was no market, why did kona, one of the biggest bike companies, release it on the 07 stinky?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because people are stupid.
That question could be asked of a lot of things. Those things that were successful were because whoever was doing the selling managed to convince a large amount of people that whatever they were pushing was worth buying.

And, in future, can we have less crap topic titles, please? I very nearly deleted this without reading it on the basis of the title.

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rubber side up · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

ok thanks for some reasoning. end of was a bit sharp don't you think?

however, if there was no market, why did kona, one of the biggest bike companies, release it on the 07 stinky? just a thought. as for hype, well yea but i can see how it works and would be interested to test it, but i'll leave the point on this forum cause it's obviously not welcome.

oh and joe i know the us is 6-10 hrs behind. i didn't send the e mail today! it's been weeks.

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

because they think it'll make them look like nice people that care about getting the customers a bike that handles better. people pretty much think what they are told to. you could strap random bits of metal all over the bike and tell customers it makes it handle better. they'll buy it.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

wwjjtt · May 2007

the fundamental fact is, when you brake the wheel is forced down and forward and this will stop the suspension working as well. i have been told this be a pro bike mechanic and engineer. i was just interested in weather you can get them.. will you all chill a little!

sorry big red s would you like to suggest a better title?

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

Big Red S · May 2007

"FAO: Nick"
"Why was my topic on Brake Therapy locked"

etc.

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The Joe Show · May 2007

Also remember that while here in the UK noone wants them, people in other parts of the world might want to buy Brake Therapy, and Kona sell their bikes worldwide.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>Twenty
Carrera
Nissan
 
Myspazzzzz
WDI</center><hr noshade size="1">

wwjjtt · May 2007

because i asked if anyone had used one or knew where to get one! i'm so sorry for that!

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

wwjjtt · May 2007

so if that was true why didn't they leave them off for the uk market and save some money?

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

Mike Skinner · May 2007

because again, marketing sells, and if they put them on they can shout 'now with no brake jack!!'

although a better claim would be to build a bike that didn't suffer it in the first place (not that i can talk riding a single pivot, but then i've never suffered 'brake jack' either)

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wwjjtt · May 2007

i'm going to bed-riding tomorrow. you might as well delete this thread nick or red. can't say what you want so what the hell.

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

rubber side up · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

the fundamental fact is, when you brake the wheel is forced down and forward and this will stop the suspension working as well. i have been told this be a pro bike mechanic and engineer. i was just interested in weather you can get them.. will you all chill a little!

sorry big red s would you like to suggest a better title?

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i have _NEVER_ had any problems with brake jack, on any of the bikes i've ridden. Evidently theres a major difference between braking styles.

At the end of the day, if your happy with it. then thats fine. but 90% of people wouldn't see any benefit from having one, as 99.9% of the time its not needed.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

wwjjtt · May 2007

not interested in brake jack or the sales rubbish. the point is... when you ride,and brake the force pull you down stopping the sus working. try riding and jamming on the front brake! the forks depress and your thrown forward!!! FACT! it eliminates that force a bit! I WAS JUST INTERESTED IF ANYONE HAD USED IT! didn't wanna start ww3!! thats it from me. thank you.

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

Mike Skinner · May 2007

ok, to summerise. No-one on here has used one. easy, but that doesn't stop us discussing why we feel they arn't needed.

And bare in mind a lot of the pople commenting on here ride World Cup standard tracks in France, race in the UK and generally know their stuff, so while I can see you are looking for an answer we can't give you, please try to respect we do have half a brain as well

<center>HighZine "More Fun than Kucking Dead Fids</center>
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<center>Old Vids</center>

rubber side up · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

not interested in brake jack or the sales rubbish. the point is... when you ride,and brake the force pull you down stopping the sus working. try riding and jamming on the front brake! the forks depress and your thrown forward!!! FACT! it eliminates that force a bit! I WAS JUST INTERESTED IF ANYONE HAD USED IT! didn't wanna start ww3!! thats it from me. thank you.

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Forks are completely different. The forks compress simply because all the riders, and bikes weight is thrown forward onto it. theres absolutely nothing you can do with that, other than increasing compression damping, which in itself can ruin the overall handling of the forks.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

Mike Skinner · May 2007

there have in fact been anti-dive forks.
However they only caught on minimally, so they can't have been anything amazing

<center>HighZine "More Fun than Kucking Dead Fids</center>
<center>Punk Cabaret Is Freedom</center>
<center>M i n i- L i n k</center>
<center>Old Vids</center>

wwjjtt · May 2007

well obviously you all know better than the pro mtb mechanic/engineer i was speaking to. so how bout y'all chill out a li'll. i only asked if anyone knew where to get one not weather they worked-i know what it does and i know the physics and engineering of it, and how it works and what it does. so thanks for the oppinions on weather it works or not but the question was have you used one and where can you get them. obviously the answers are no and i don't know, so thanks for the abuse and goodnight.

never grow up..... just find a bigger playground!

stinky custom -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1074854/

not so custom stinky->http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1341407/

secondtimeuser · May 2007

As long as the brakes still slow me down I for one couldn't give a tos<s></s>s what my suspension is doing.

And the video Kona made to show how awesome their arm link thingy is was a bit pointless, as
a) they'd taken the spring off meaning the no-brake-arm result was ridiculously over-exaggerated
b) they just slammed the lever on rather than actually slowing down gradually. Though they were using Hayes brakes I suppose, but that's a different issue...

<center>~ Blood, Bunny, Larkhall ~
Blackspire Chris King Dark Cycles DTSwiss Easton Fox Gusset Hope Identiti Marzocchi Mavic Nokian Orange RaceFace Shimano Specialized Sram Thomson Velox </center>

nicklouse · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

the fundamental fact is, when you brake the wheel is forced down and forward and this will stop the suspension working as well. i have been told this be a pro bike mechanic and engineer. i was just interested in weather you can get them..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

and you belive that? you deserve a brake arm.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

not interested in brake jack or the sales rubbish. the point is... when you ride,and brake the force pull you down stopping the sus working. try riding and jamming on the front brake! the forks depress and your thrown forward!!! FACT! it eliminates that force a bit! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> your not interested in brake jack then you dont need a brake arm.
your fork is compressing! wow it should abit as your weight is transvered forward as should the rear extend. but a correctly set up suspension system will limit what you describe to a few mm.

yes i have ridden a bike with a floater, yes i have designed a floater for a bike. (back when they were the next great thing oh guess what they were not). all it will do is make the rear brake feel like a FSR linkaged bike which has a whole bag of problems of its own.

anyway this topic is going to get a rename and a move.

nick
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Dangerous Dave · May 2007

There is no doubt in my mind that braking affects suspension, it affects bikes, cars and about anything with sus!
I remember riding my patriot down some DH courses, and the thing would lock up meaning it was worse than a hardtail with it's flexy back end. The only solution was to brake less which led to a whole world of death considering I couldn't ride for poo at the time.

On my Gemini, I can feel that under braking it never locks up or looses traction.... whether this is more travel or just the fact the picot is in the right place I don't know.

I do know it effectively makes it an FSR back end which we all know is more active under braking...

I think the only problem with the Brake Therapy arms is that they do no good where they are mounted. They are always a bit of an after thought...

I suppose it depends whether you want your sus to squat etc....

It makes some sort of difference on mine, but then it's part of the frame... however single pivots like 224's Comencal's etc work very very well without them

<hr noshade size="1">[another random post by]
BiGDaVe![}:)]<center>[}:)]GeT Orf YeR ASs AnD RIdE A BIkE[}:)]
Chameleon | RaveRacing | Uber Gemini</center>
<hr noshade size="1">Originally posted by Jon
<center>As Dave and Alex raced past, someone in the other group of people said 'those two are good'. [:D]</center><hr noshade size="1">

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

so how bout y'all chill out a li'll.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pot. Kettle. Black.

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Anonymous · May 2007

This is all a load of crap.
To prove it to yourself, do this very simple test.
Find a long, straight, road hill, it has to be long enough and steep enough to give you plenty of speed and time to do this.
Go down it full whack, and bounce up and down to compress therear shock. Move your weight around, adn see how the suspension moves.
Now apply the rear brake, and do the same.

Result it no difference.

<hr noshade size="1">
My trusty steed
1999 marin wolfridge, Marzocchi Jr Ts, Saint cranks, D321 rims, Hope C2s, raceface bits and bobs, XT running gear. All vintage stuff! (apart from the saints)
<hr noshade size="1">

rubber side up · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by yeehaamcgee

This is all a load of crap.
To prove it to yourself, do this very simple test.
Find a long, straight, road hill, it has to be long enough and steep enough to give you plenty of speed and time to do this.
Go down it full whack, and bounce up and down to compress therear shock. Move your weight around, adn see how the suspension moves.
Now apply the rear brake, and do the same.

Result it no difference.

<hr noshade size="1">
My trusty steed
1999 marin wolfridge, Marzocchi Jr Ts, Saint cranks, D321 rims, Hope C2s, raceface bits and bobs, XT running gear. All vintage stuff! (apart from the saints)
<hr noshade size="1">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i think he means when the brake is locked. or under uber heavy braking. which to be honest, you shouldnt be doing unless its a really difficult section. skidding just ruins the trails. And besides. most of the braking should be done with the front wheel. afterall, thats the one that does all the work anyway.

I'm not entirely sure why you've got in such a panick over this. at the end of the say (like i said) if your happy with it, then thats all that matters. if it helps you ride, then so beit. theres no need whatsoever to start saying everyone else is wrong, because fact is, we don't want/need them. if you want to spend œœœ on something that may or may not improve performance atall. thats fine by us.

Now lets leave it at that eh?

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

Drfabulous0 · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wwjjtt

not interested in brake jack or the sales rubbish. the point is... when you ride,and brake the force pull you down stopping the sus working. try riding and jamming on the front brake! the forks depress and your thrown forward!!! FACT!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well of course it does, otherwise you would endo. Try leaning back. Brake jacking isn't a problem for most riders as you get used to how your bike feels and behaves and ride accordingly.

If you really want one try Ebay or put a wanted ad in the classified section. Lots of people take them off the Konas so someone is bound to have a spare one.

<center>My Scott</center>

Dangerous Dave · May 2007

Good idea, use the front brake the most.... mmm ever tried riding over:
Wet Roots
Braking bumps
General rough ground
with the front brake on full?

Painful, huh?

On the majority of frames it really makes no difference as most manufacturers can put pivots in the right place.

I think the secret is just to not lock the back wheel!

<hr noshade size="1">[another random post by]
BiGDaVe![}:)]<center>[}:)]GeT Orf YeR ASs AnD RIdE A BIkE[}:)]
Chameleon | RaveRacing | Uber Gemini</center>
<hr noshade size="1">Originally posted by Jon
<center>As Dave and Alex raced past, someone in the other group of people said 'those two are good'. [:D]</center><hr noshade size="1">

rubber side up · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dangerous Dave

Good idea, use the front brake the most.... mmm ever tried riding over:
Wet Roots
Braking bumps
General rough ground
with the front brake on full?

Painful, huh?

On the majority of frames it really makes no difference as most manufacturers can put pivots in the right place.

I think the secret is just to not lock the back wheel!

<hr noshade size="1">[another random post by]
BiGDaVe![}:)]<center>[}:)]GeT Orf YeR ASs AnD RIdE A BIkE[}:)]
Chameleon | RaveRacing | Uber Gemini</center>
<hr noshade size="1">Originally posted by Jon
<center>As Dave and Alex raced past, someone in the other group of people said 'those two are good'. [:D]</center><hr noshade size="1">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i was just speaking in general, because under "normal" circumstances the front brake will slow you down a helluva lot quicker than the rear.

i tend not to brake across wet roots anyway. its just asking for trouble.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

Drfabulous0 · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dangerous Dave

Good idea, use the front brake the most.... mmm ever tried riding over:
Wet Roots
Braking bumps
General rough ground
with the front brake on full?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, but then I wouldn't be using the back one either, only use the brakes when you have some clear ground for your tyres to grip. Unless of course you like the taste of dirt.

<center>My Scott</center>

rubber side up · May 2007

^^^ my point exactly.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

A discusion on linkage brakes.(floating calipers).

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