Home Energy Efficiency
Anyone catch the Ch4 programme last night "How to Heat Your Home for Less"?
Some interesting and some bloody obvious and some rediculous observations, e.g. the Architect in the Victorian Terrace that "converted" his typical home into a carbon Zero home. Basically there was nothing left of the original and he rebuilt the whole back and probably cost him north of £400k to save £1.5k a year on basic requirements.
It got me thinking though about Heat Pump Tumble Driers. Anyone with experience of these sort? I've had a look online and get reviews varying from absolutely the best thing ever and saves so much money, to I really hate this thing, spent a lot of money on it, can't afford to replace it and it leaves my towels damp after running for 3 hours etc. Need some real world views on this. We don't really use it that much but ours it probably 18 years old condensing dryer so probably really inefficient. Maybe a modern condenser would be a better bet?
Likewise with our fridge/freezer and dishwasher that are now at least 17 years old a piece. Is it worth replacing or keep until dead? Obviously the fridge is on 24/7 and the dishwasher used 6 times a week.
Added these three items into my Currys shopping basket based on like for like replacement but with at least A or higher efficiency and tots up to £2k. Worth it?
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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When we moved house 2 months ago Mrs W gave away are old washer and condensing dryer. She bought new ones, the dryer is an Miele airspeed condenser drier and is way better than the old one. Your stuff is actually dry when comes out and it takes half the drying time.
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I keep things till they give up the ghost... currently microwave about 35 years old, fridge about 30, car 21, house about 250. The washing machine is only about three years old, but the previous one did 35 years.
The house would be similar to the case you mention, though as the walls are 2ft cob, the windows are all double-glazed, the SW-facing aspect now properly draught-proof, the only thing I could really do is re-insulate my tiny loft.
Basic feeling is that unless something is grossly inefficient, then the energy involved in new plus recycling the old will outweigh the efficiency gain, not least as I use most appliances fairly minimally. I realise I might not be a typical consumer though.
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Clearly you are not and also you are missing the biggie, you don’t have a Missus Trumpet.
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Looks like some cracking deals from Samsung direct. I could get those three appliances delivered for around £1.7k instead of £2.3k from John Lewis or Curry's. Obviously limited to samsung so limited choice but seems OK.
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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no idea whether samsung are good/bad, but i'd do some digging for any signs of poor aftersales service
there'll be horror stories with every manufacturer, but if there are thousands of uk reviews t give a decent sample size and after discounting silly rants it still looks poor vs. other comparable brands, it may not be by chance
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny1 -
Is the place to ask which fuckwit decided that washer/ driers now need to play a tune to tell you they’ve finished.
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Yeah, been having a dig around. Seems reviews are quite varied but tend towards negative esp. on reddit.
Rejigged my John Lewis basket and opted for Bosch Dishwasher and Fridge both B rated and an AEG heatpump dryer that's A++ and totals out at £1909 including delivery and taking away the old stuff and packaging. So quite comparable to the Samsung deals I was looking at but with possibly more reputation and reliability.
I must say that the exisiting stuff still works though noticed splits in the fridge seals plus it is rated at 425kWh for a year vs 143kWh for a B rated Bosch. The DW is starting to rust on the cages/trays and the Tumble Dryer leaks at the rear corner. Fridge must be from 2008, DW at least 22 years old and same for Tumbler. I really doubt anything new will last as long but gotta be a whole load more efficient. We do tend to dry a lot of clothes indoors on an airer in a bedroom with a dehumidifier but that too is quite old. I reckon we could run a heat pump dryer more often and still save money and reduce indoor condensation.
Looks like I'm talking myself into spending money that could well go towards a bike.....
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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FWIW I had a Bosch dishwasher in last house, ran flawlessly for 14 years. Now using AEG/Electrolux appliances and they’ve been very good. Bought a condenser drier this year, even though we rarely use one. It works great, although it is slower than the old type. Has different selections of how dry you want things to be, and I find the default left things a little damp feeling. But on driest setting it’s great.
We’re about to spend a big chunk of money on upgrading our solar power generation. Will be interesting to see if we can slash our (epic) power bills by as much as claimed.
Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
Our AEG heat pump dryer is one of the best things we've bought for the house. It doesn't use much energy but gets everything properly dry quite quickly. Compared to the previous washer/dryer combo it's night and day. I haven't had to hang washing up inside since buying it which saves a lot of time and avoids damp problems.
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for the fridge, might be worth looking for a better rated one, also one that allows actual temperatures to be set, rather than the old fashioned dial of mystery type
fwiw i wavered bosch/miele on fridge-freezer, after research went for a bosch frost-free (not mrs s' choice which was based on ice/water gadgets that will break, like the last ones did)
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Interesting findings using a plug-in energy meter. I was quite surprised!
- Old Dishwasher on Eco Mode overnight 1.24kWh - £0.31
- Washing Machine about 5-6 years old but A+++ rated Cotton Wash at 40C with 1400 Spin (about 2.5 hours) 0.66kWh £0.16
- Old Tumble Dryer (20 years old) 1 hour Drying at Medium Heat 1.14kWh £0.28
Couldn't test fridge as can't get a socket without pulling it out.
I was most surprised at how energy efficient the Washing Machine was considering the cycle and temp. We usually use a 1 hour-ish wash at 30C so obviously a much lower running cost.
Looks like an order is going into John Lewis today. Bosch Fridge/Freezer B Rated; Bosch DW B Rated; AEG Heat Pump Dryer A++ Rated.
Wife also wants a new oven!! Bosch A+ rated oven.
It's all looking expensive. Oh well, the kids will have to sit in the kitchen looking into the empty fridge or the tumble dryer going round and round on Christmas day. Son will be happy as aparently Oven has a "Pizza Mode"!
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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Alternative thought here. We had solar panels installed almost two years ago as there was a Hampshire wide initiative. £14.5k total cost for 12 panels, battery, hot water inverter and all installation and scaffolding costs. Fantastic! We have learnt to put things on in the daytime for zilch cost and if not the battery will cover a lot for most of the year. We ran our Corsa EV for virtually nothing across the 5 months of summer as well as getting our hot water for free too ( still getting some hot water produced in November on certain sunny days. Our OVO app shows that we use about a third of the electricity of similar sized large 4 bed homes even including having the EV which has done about 10,000 miles this year all powered from home ( circa £1k less than similar homes currently. We’ve spent £694 on electricity including all standing charges and VAT this year to date). The gas bill is much smaller as we don’t pay hardly anything for our hot water across quite a few months. October cost £7.54, Sept £11.24, Aug £5.53 etc etc!
It’s super motivating to think of the carbon fuel saved, the benefits to the planet and even better to think about the savings made.
Really recommend.
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Had a PV panels and solar water panel at the last house, would have looked at a battery as well if we had stayed there.
Unfortunately our new (Victorian) house doesn't have any suitable roof area for panels and there isn't really anywhere much in the garden to put them. Might fit some on the shed roof. Definitely miss them!
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Sounds like the payback time is going to be quite long! Very surprised by the 20 year old tumble dryer, we had to ditch our original one from when we first got married after about 25 years (motor burned out). I find the new condensing one doesn't dry clothes anywhere near as well but had assumed that our old one was hugely expensive to run, I'm not so sure now. We rarely use the dryer, partly due to energy use but also as virtually all clothes have a 'do not dry clean' symbol. I suspect that is the usual arse covering but I'm reluctant to risk in on any half decent clothing.
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I could learn something here.
I thought "Dry Clean" was when taken to the cleaners for specialist cleaning and has nothing to do with dryers.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
We recently upgraded after out 20 plus yr old one died. Looked at latest heatpump and condensing dryers. After looking at cost including running costs we got the nearest equivalent to the old basic one we had. Observations so far, the predetermined programmes and inbuilt sensors sensors don't dry as good so occasionally extra drying sometimes needed. TBH only use for bedding, towels socks etc. Very disappointed tbh. Mates hi end miele heat pump one is just as disappointing apparently. He warned me off.
Too many bikes according to Mrs O.0 -
Sorry meant 'do not tumble dry' (the circle in a square with a cross through it).
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Yeah, payback is going to take many, many, many years TBH, but it's not really about that. Stuff just aint working as well as it should so we needed to invest and in doing so chose to have better rated appliances. Could have saved about £500 if we went for E-G rated ones.
These gadgets are great to check what you are using power-wise.
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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What's got me is nothing is simple anymore. I mean the fridge, freezer, dryer even the oven all connect to WiFi and bloody mobile apps. Why ??
Too many bikes according to Mrs O.0 -
So the manufacturers can harvest use data.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Had my 35kw combi serviced today, running at 93% efficiency. Gas bloke reckons ground source heat pumps are brilliant but cost 40k. Air source not worth a wank as you need to go back to an emersion heater to get water anywhere near 55 degrees.
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Real shame that and sounds like no solution. We have a couple of oak trees fairly near which prevented us having panels 20 years ago, due to a bit of shade, but technology has moved on so that the panels draw in even more efficiently now allowing us to have them installed.
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He is mistaken.
55⁰ is a standard for condensing gas fired central heating based on small emitters, partly because it hits the optimum return temperature. If you have larger emitters (or UFH) you wouldn't want to circulate at 55⁰. The dog would not want to lie on the floor. They still get stored hot water up to temperature so no need to use an IH other than as a backup. Vaillant do a pre-plumbed HW cylinder specifically designed to match their ASHPs.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Thanks for that as I honestly have not much idea. What I do know is that I haven't got a spare 40k in my arse pocket for when my boiler packs in. I could stretch to the 2-3k for another combi though. Also, according to EDF guide, my house isn't suitable for an air source heat pump.
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He's right about ground source heat pumps as you need a really big hole in the ground. If you own a farm or a manor house and know a man with an excavator that's not a big deal and a few of National Trust properties have switched to them, but they are difficult to justify in a typical suburban back garden.
It's worth saying that heat pumps are rapidly improving as they become more mainstream. A couple of the larger boiler manufacturers have jumped (Vaillant, Worcester Bosch) and Octopus have been acquiring expertise and manufacturing capacity.
The grants available for heat pumps mean that they are more or less competitive with replacement gas boilers. But if you need significant secondary improvements then they get more costly. Typically you may need to re-size some radiators and upgrade other parts of the central heating system. If you are carrying out general refurbishment then this can be worked in quite cost effectively, but if it's just a change from gas/oil to heat pump then you would need to budget for some extra bits and pieces and making good.
In either case, or if you are sticking with gas for the time being, first consideration should be improving the levels of insulation so that you need to put in less heat in the first place.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Ground source heat pumps should be compulsory on new developments over over 3 or 4 houses as whilst digging the excavations they could put in the infrastructure needed.
ASHP work well down to about 5 degrees but then struggle so the immersion is likely to kick in.
Consider adding a battery and using a tariff like Octopus Cosy if you do go for an ASHP.
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Is having to have an immersion heater not a backward step? A tank of hot water sat waiting to be called upon rather than water heated on demand as is the case with combi boilers?
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Smart metres? I honestly don't see the benefit unless you want something like an Economy 7 tariff. No hardship for me to log on once a month and upload readings. I certainly don't need to be told that if something is switched on it is consuming energy or to save energy, I could turn things off or down.
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They're essential for lots of tariffs, particularly if you have things like solar.
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