2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge
Comments
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The left wing view is that segregation in the end is bad for society, i.e. it provides too many mediocre people with wealthy parents an advantage, and risks missing talent in and embedding prejudice against the other 93%.
As someone who managed to get into Oxford from state school and come out with a first, I'd agree with the latter, because I wasn't even put forward initially.
The fact I shared the course with lots of people more gifted than me many of whom went to private school somewhat debunks the former.
See, it is possible to have nuanced views.
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I know its possible.
I'm just not a great believer in levelling down. Also the nuances of children with special needs that are not easily/properly dealt with in the state sector are not always well appreciated in this debate. Or the nuances of people who are not wealthy but bust a gut to give their kid the best they can.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
poor attempt at deflection
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Nicer facilities for sure, but these are as much to entice customers as anything else. The fact that the vast majority do perfectly well with the state system suggests that for all the trimmings the private sector doesn't add much educationally. It's well recorded that selective state schools have better overall attainment than their selective independent competitors.
Obviously, private schools have to maintain the narrative that they are offering something better, but a large part of it is just straightforward snobbery.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
...there are connections to be made and networking for the future. That can't be denied. Who you know is still a thing.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Private schools can do things better. I contemplated dropping out in my first year because I was at such a disadvantage to the rest of the people on my course who had all done things in addition to the syllabus during A-level. This included a few who went to state schools in wealthy areas, which were more used to preparing people for Oxbridge. More resource leads to better outcomes.
I do not think private schools are justified based on special needs children. That's a new one for me, and all it says is you are better off as a special needs person if your parents are wealthy, for the same reason as if you are not special needs. No shit Sherlock.
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So you think most people are aware of the capital goods scheme and the retrospective nature of the refunds for that? Which was the point I was making, not the fact that schools can reclaim VAT on costs going forward.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Sure it is the case with snobbery and private schools, but (1) snobbery is not illegal and (2) people are free to spend their money how they want within the law.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's not all about the academic side of things.
Sports and arts facilities are generally significantly better at private schools for starters.
You suggesting it's all about snobbery says as much about you as it does many private school parents. That is not to say that there aren't some parents who wouldn't dream of sending their darlings to a state school, but for each of those, there are many who are normal people who want what they perceive to be the best for their kids. So no different to you.
Not everyone is lucky enough to be surrounded by exceptional state schools.
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Absolutely. And if one can afford it, crack on. If one can't then it's not as though the alternative is massively inferior.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think a lot of those attitudes (about not having ideas above your station) have largely been consigned to history. There's no evidence of that approach at my daughter's school and it's certainly not a wealthy area.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You're not providing nuance there.
You're regurgitating objections to the policy
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Should other goods or services that people would like to provide for their children, but cant afford, also be exempt from VAT?
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
The initial advantage given to other candidates was two fold. 1. Prep for the entrance exam (which I didn't get put forward for - because no one at my college had ever been out forward for one - and didn't think to ask about - which was as much about me and my parents as the school) 2. That a lot of the stuff in the entrance exam prep came up in first year prelims exams, so I had quite a lot more to learn.
It wasn't about ideas above station, it was about not knowing how to play the game. Or even that there is a game.
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The exemption from VAT from education fees has been a long standing approach.
If they are going to add VAT to school fees then why not uni fees as well?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You just don't like what I'm saying. Never mind.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
None of the private schools near me have full time police officers.
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Why would they? It's like saying they should add it to chocolate cakes as well.
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You avoided answering the question. Noted
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Say some nuance.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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I think it boils down to expectations. If teachers expect their pupils to apply to Oxford then obviously, they prep them for it. If they think none of their pupils have any business applying to Oxford then of course they won't bother finding out about the preparation needed let alone suggesting the idea to more able pupils and their parents.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Neither do the state schools near me.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Nope. The majority of teachers don't know what preparation would entail (lots of extra curricular work) and don't have the capacity to do it even if they did.
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I mean, the head teacher specifically mentioned prep for Oxbridge as one of the things they can offer in one of the parents evenings, but sure.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm guessing all schools do not offer equal service. Doubt that will surprise anyone.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Note away.
I note that you haven't answered mine.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Oddly enough, schools do like to brag about how many pupils they have sent to Oxbridge. The school that currently sends the most students to Oxbridge is Brampton Manor, a state comprehensive in Newham.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I could explain the further but sounds like you're just trying to be a smartarse again.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I can’t see how your comment is relevant.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
