The boomers ate all the avocados
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The size of the seed in an avocado should make this thread obsolete.
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Don't get me started with mangos, what's that evolution all about?
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Can't they learna bit from seedless grapes!?
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UK state pension increase April 24 = 10.1%
UK CPI rate April 24 = 2.3%.
Stop whingeing.
Gummint should just consolidate the WFP into the Pension, done. And the £10 p.a. Christmas 'bonus' 🤭
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Go check your facts - what you have stated above is totally wrong.
The 10.1% increase was in April 2023 based on Oct (or might have been Nov) 2023 inflation figures.
April 2024 increase was based on earnings increases from Sept 2023 and was 6.7%.
April 2025 increase is based on Sept 2024 earnings increase.
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Oh, and try writing in English occassionally.
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It’s the problem with benefits of any kind. At some point they become considered an entitlement. I know plenty of people who have viewed discretionary bonuses as an expectation after they get them for a few years. Wasn’t the winter fuel allowance initially just a temporary measure? It’s lucky the money they gave us all a couple of years ago was scrapped quickly before it became an expectation.
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Dan Neidle's range is £250k-£400k with the triple lock in this thread:
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Ok, I bite. Explain just how an April 23 increase gets based on October (or November) 23 numbers. Go do your math. (Deliberate)
And go check the actual facts.
Ye wee bampot ye.
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I'm sure that if you did opinion polls a large majority would be in favour of not splurging money left, right and centre, but also at the same time improving public services tax cuts and savings on benefits, as long as someone else has their benefit cut.
Stephen Fry got it spot on when he said it's no wonder we get the rubbish governments we deserve when we expect them to be conjurors when the electorate are such hypocrites en masse.
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It's old hat. I've posted similar before on the subject of the lifetime pension cap.
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I was in M&S today. Two ladies up in arms over the winter fuel. One saying how she could "barely afford to live anymore" as she stood there with a full trolley that must easily have had £100 of food in it!
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Dan Neidlle , why on earth would you ask an economist about the cost of an annuity? They won't know.
Ask a financial adviser.
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Ok, I should have said the April 2023 increases were based on the 2022 figures, a typo. The next line was correct as was the rest of the post.
Jesus. Do you not know how the State Pension increases are calculated?
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That did seem an odd one, but actuaries should have a clue, shouldn't they?
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The actuaries will provide the underlying information, yes, but the market rartes for annuities are a commercial decision. When annuity was the default retirement option, if a life office wanted a quick injection of money into the business, they upped their rates to be the best on the market for a period.
Asking an actuary certainly wouldn't be your first ort of call.
A self styled 'know it all' journalist really should know more.
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Err, did you not read my post?
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lol Dorset. The “cost” of an annuity is not the same as what they’d sell it for. It’s a theoretical question. If you don’t think costing the liabilities of the state pension in the form on an annuity isn’t an actuarial question, I have a bridge to sell you.
The people who price annuities are actuaries. I’ve placed people to do that job. That they were actuaries was 100% essential to the job.
Just because you speak to sales people who have some agency how much they can flex the price up or down does not mean they understand the underlying liabilities.
check out this job: https://www.emerald-group.com/job/head-of-pricing-27739/
- Responsible for commercial and fair value pricing individual annuities and equity release mortgages
Qualifications required:
- Qualified Actuary or individual with strong experience in a commercially driven pricing function
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Cost to the manufacturer is not the same as the cost to the purchaser Rick. You have looked through the wrong end of the telescope at my post. If you are talking about the cost of the annuity to replicate the State Pension you are surely looking at the cost of purchasing that annuity on the open market.
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no? Why would you? It’s just a way to demonstrate the cost to the take payer in a more digestible format.
Regardless, the people in charge of annuity pricing are actuaries. So stop talking out of your arse.
It was entirely the right person to ask. That’s why the whole Bluesky exchange went from the tax man asking an economist which actuary to ask, and at no point did anyone say “nah, ask the salesman”
I might not know much, but knowing what people in financial services do in their jobs and the right person to ask for stuff is literally my job. That is what I do.
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There were several financial advisors in the replies, so I'm not sure anything was lost. Think it was a fairly open question/invitation for anyone to reply.
Main conclusion seemed to be that you could give an answer (cost to provider or purchaser) that would cover the current SP, but much more difficult to cover the equivalent of the triple lock.
Would be interested in your view on that. I guess the other question is that if you were to shift everyone over to individual pensions a lot of people will have a shock from how much they need to save. That would also presumably have a pretty big impact on the pension industry and all the things that providers invest in.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I wish there was a hide Dan Neidle AI function.
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To my knowledge, no provider (and there aren't many annuity providers any more), offer a multiple indexation option. You can opt for level, increasing by fixed amounts or increasing by inflation, but nothing is available on the market for a triple lock type increase.
Those who work in the private sector presumably have a pretty good idea of the fund required for a given income, certainly as they approach retirement. The shock would come to those in the public sector with their hype expensive salary related schemes.
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The floor and CPI elements can definitely be calculated in combination (and not by me). I'm not sure whether the earnings index is traded in any form, so it might require a fudge for that. However, I have no idea why anyone would bother. What relevance is the value of a state pension? And if it is relevant, no one needs that level of detail.
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On the triple lock that seemed to be the consensus in the replies.
I guess those that have a private pension have an idea of what they need to save, but many are in workplace schemes where that decision is made for you to a degree. I think for a lot of people the question is what you can afford to put in without beggaring yourself rather than picking a notional income for 40-50years time. They're also built on the assumption that they will be on top of a SP rather than the only income.
If you were trying to completely replace the SP there's the obvious difficulty of trying to provide a universal minimum level from widely varying contributions but I guess you would also divert part of NIC towards it.
My guess as to what DN was driving at is exploring alternative funding models for the SP rather than taking money straight from direct taxation.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's interesting when vaguely thinking about what size pension pot you might need at point of retirement if you wanted another £12k on top for instance.
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