I blame Wiggle, say owners

super_davo

photonic69 said:

super_davo said:

rick_chasey said:

davebradswmb said:

Back in the day most cyclists would work on their own bikes, LBSs made a lot of their business supplying the parts unless you were going really high end or specialised and would go the mail order route, anybody remember the pocket Holdsworths catalogue?

Today it's almost completely switched around, I reckon I'm in a minority of about 20% in my cycling club who work on their own bikes, everyone else takes it to the LBS or to a one-man mechanic business working out of his garage. The LBS has been known to advise customers to source components themselves as they can't match the online prices going through their wholesalers, though this may be changing with the current upheaval in the marketplace.

Partly a space thing. I don’t have the space to store the tools needed etc.

A key change in the home mechanic Vs shop is that modern disc brake electronic shifting bikes do not need regular fettling to keep working well. They tend to be more "one service a year". A lot of people are scared of bleeding disc brakes or integrated cabling, even if they've worked on bikes for years.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaaaaa...!

You're 'avin a giraffe! Almost spat me tea..

No, that's completely my experience and many others too. I am not saying the total amount of maintenance is less. Just that bikes using cables to shift & stop will need more "little and often" attention than hydraulics, which will self adjust, and Di2 you basically don't need to touch once set.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

With regards Wiggle, I would guess all of the above is true to some degree. I suspect the wider issue, for Wiggle and a lot of other online retailers is that the bottom has fallen out of the cycling market to a degree.

The whole demographic taking up the sport changed, and it switched to being seen as a leisure activity rather than the preserve of the dedicated amateur.

Understandably many adapted to the new market and grew beyond what was sustainable long term. My guess is many new cyclists didn't stick with it and many long termers are buying less stuff.

The market was always going to shrink at some point. Those that got greedy always take the biggest hit when sales run dry.

pblakeney

IMO peak cycling business was 2016. Covid helped but anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

me-109

I picked a bad time to try selling my old 'best bike'. Can't give it away. Either because the enthusiast market really does want discs and electrickery, or the market has shrunk to the pint of 2nd hand bits not even being in demand.

I'm glad PX found a buyer as that all kicked off just as I'd put my order in.

If WCRC are left to go to the wall then UK buying options will shrink considerably.

daniel_b

Supposition by road.cc but....

"With Mike Ashley’s Frasers Group – which owns Evans and ProBikeKit – already swooping into snap up Sportscheck, one of Germany’s larger sports retail businesses, it remains to be seen whether the group will also turn its attention towards Wiggle CRC."

ugo.santalucia

on the other hand, if these big warehouse retailers go bust, maybe that gives some boost to LBS?

dannbodge

I hope they don't go altogether as most of my kit is DHB and I have a lot of prime and lifeline bits.

However I have noticed that all their prices have gone up. Blok jerseys used to be £30, they're now £65, the base level bib shorts have done the same.

The new website is terrible and I echo the out of stock issues.

photonic69

pblakeney said:

IMO peak cycling business was 2016. Covid helped but anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

I blame Jim Ratcliffe and Ineos. When Team Sky captured the hearts and minds of the British public with the likes of Wiggins, Froome and G and were winning again and again it drove a huge spike of interest in cycling across the board. Since Ineos took over British cycling really has gone to sh!t. It shows that even a huge wallet can't buy the best. We have few local up and coming talent and unlikely to as cycling clubs across the UK are in decline too.

This reduction in interest translates into lower spend on cycling equipment and clothing. I think people have just tired of cycling on the whole. Even I who used to go our regularly on Sundays with a club have done about 4 rides with them this year. I'm just a bike commuter now. I notice that even the shower facilities at work are far less used than they used to be. This decline seems to be across the board as far as I can tell. Sign of the times. Sad times.

But yeah, Jim Ratcliffe is to blame.

pangolin

Will be sad to see DHB run by Mike Ashley, I like their stuff.

verylonglegs

Ugo's point about Zwift is a good one, I know an ex work colleague who is rather frustrated at the lack of riding companions in the winter as he says everyone now seems to stay indoors and race on turbos. If they aren't going outside then there is no longer any need for those super duper rain jackets that cost a lot of £££.

ugo.santalucia

verylonglegs said:

Ugo's point about Zwift is a good one, I know an ex work colleague who is rather frustrated at the lack of riding companions in the winter as he says everyone now seems to stay indoors and race on turbos. If they aren't going outside then there is no longer any need for those super duper rain jackets that cost a lot of £££.

I used to buy the latest winter jacket every 2 or 3 years, now I am still using those I bought back in 2016 and 2018… same for bib tights… I only have one pair left, which is probably 5 years old

First.Aspect

Is the elephant in the room here that cycling is now proportionally far more expensive than it used to be? The industry milked us all dry for a few years over the pandemic, and replaced fairly simple light machines with expensive complex lifestyle gadgets, doubling the price for basically the exact same experience.

The market has shrunk at least in part because of this.

rick_chasey

It is ludicrously expensive compared to what it used to be.

ugo.santalucia

top end bikes are roughly 3 times more than they were 15 years ago, in essence you get the hydraulics and the electronics, which go some way to justify that. Clothing was always expensive, if anything Assos is not as ludicrous as it used to be, but that could be due to poorer quality. The main issue is the pace of innovation, which makes things obsolete in the space of two to three years and that is unprecedented. It’s not long ago that MTBikes were 9 speed..l now it’s what… 13?
Each new step comes with a degree of incompatibility… what is the point in a pair of top end wheels if the freehub will be obsolete in 2 years and I will need the DX AXS DUB upgrade, which is only available in America, sometimes… it undermines confidence and push people towards Aliexpress. And then of course the indoor market means you can have the latest gear without spending a penny, just tweak your avatar with new wheels and the latest looking frame.

huret

I bought the odd bit at the little Wiggle shop in Portsmouth in late 90s early 00s. Was shocked when they went mail order-only with a big warehouse on the outskirts. Was shocked again when they sold it all for millions, and I'm shocked by this.

jdee84

It's gone ridiculous, I bought a cannondale super six hi mod in 2016 and it was £2999 what is essentially the same spec model bike but with redesigned frame and discs brakes the last few years has been £5250. Giant have just release a new defy the top sl 0 version is £11499 and going by a 2016 review the sl 0 then was £5499.

rick_chasey

jdee84 said:

It's gone ridiculous, I bought a cannondale super six hi mod in 2016 and it was £2999 what is essentially the same spec model bike but with redesigned frame and discs brakes the last few years has been £5250. Giant have just release a new defy the top sl 0 version is £11499 and going by a 2016 review the sl 0 then was £5499.

It's mad, we're getting into not so small car territory.

First.Aspect

Correct. And fundementally,.these high end bikes aren't any different to ride. Or measurably faster in most cases. So the phrase "justifies the cost" doesn't apply, because there is double the cost for basically no benefit.

The industry also turns people off when these bikes need repairing. Both in terms of the plethora of pointless "standards" and the difficulty dealing with poor underappreciated bike mechanics who tell you to get in the queue and come back for your bike next month.

I have a stable of 10-20 year old bikes I'm happy with. If I have £10k to spare, I'm getting work done on the house or buying a boat, not a bicycle.

pblakeney

I bought my last bike in 2011. Not only was that a long time ago but it will also likely be the last bike that I buy. Not a good future for business if everyone does similar.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

I bought my last bike in 2011. Not only was that a long time ago but it will also likely be the last bike that I buy. Not a good future for business if everyone does similar.

Yeah I looked into replacing my 2011 purchase in January. No chance. Dropping £3k to even see a marginal difference, what's the point.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Completely agree that the cost of bikes is madness and bike manufacturers have been price gouging us for years.

I think a big market correction is on the way over the next 2-3 years as they realise demand is not there.

As per Ugo's earlier point of whether the big online retailers diminishing will help out the LBS. I would like to hope it would but the issue is that many have gone under and those that are left cannot sell at discount. I don't see there being enough demand from customers who are currently able to start paying full retail for parts or complete bikes.

I think the big bike brands have created a market that is unsustainable and long term those of us that are still keen cyclists will be worse off in terms of consumer choice and costs.

rick_chasey

I dunno, I think the demand is there. if my office is anything to go by.

Bloke is looking for more expensive alternatives to pas normale studios (£260 per shorts) because it's no longer "exclusive" enough.

kingstongraham

I'm also on the same bike I bought in 2011.

Only thing I can remember buying over the last four years is a turbo and one jersey? Plus consumables like cleats and tyres/tubes which just come from wherever is cheapest.

Expect my winter clothing to last me through another season of commuting. I think the change to more home working and the rise of zwift has definitely made my purchases last longer.

edward.s

First.Aspect said:

Yeah we've all been experienced cyclists going into a shop and being told by someone what we really should be buying. I was even told I was purchasing a MTB lube, and should instead be purchasing this dry road lube. I pointed out it was winter and left with my inappropriate lube, no doubt with the know-it-alls sadly shaking their heads.

A lot of mechanics also don't seem to want to give estimates in advance. Sorry, but I'm not a blank cheque.

That's not why Wiggle is going to fold though. That's because they aren't cheap any more, and because they keep pïssing around with stock, so it's hard to buy some things twice.

Also doesn't help that whenever you do click on a "bargain" after a Google search, it's eithe not in stock, or available at a much higher price if you want anything other than a 21c tyre or a size XS or XXXL.

I rarely bother now because I value my time too much.

All of this. well said.

luckily I can do all my own stunts mechanic wise, including wheel builds etc and there are other, better, online retailers like Merlin, Sigma etc.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

I dunno, I think the demand is there. if my office is anything to go by.

Bloke is looking for more expensive alternatives to pas normale studios (£260 per shorts) because it's no longer "exclusive" enough.

It's ever decreasing circles though isn't it. I'm guessing he's in the top 1%, which is fine, but by definition a small market.

drhaggis

I actually just bought a bike (Scott Addict 20), which should be delivered sometime next week. Hopefully. However... I've done it because change of personal circumstances plus cycle2work meant it made sense.

The Scott will be replacing a 2016 aluminium Defy, which I've used for pretty much everything. Will I see improvements? Well, yes. I'll go from mechanical 10-speed Tiagra to 12-speed 105 Di2. I'll get an allegedly nice carbon frame, which can mount mudguards for wintery club rides. Disc brakes should make wet commutes that touch safer. But I will have paid £2850 rather than £600. Weight savings? I don't know, 300 grams? From an entry-level bike!

In the 7 years that have elapsed, Giant's pricing has gone from very competitive to are you kidding me. The only carbon Spesh under £3k is a Tiagra-equipped Roubaix... that's 9.5 kg without pedals. It's all a bit mental.

And RC is spot-on wrt the various contempts you face in LBS's. My personal favourite is "It's not cost-effective to fix your factory wheels; get these Aksiums instead" and, when you pop in a year later with seized nipples, you're told "well, you're commuting with the bike, so what did you expect". I expected honest advice you moron.

rick_chasey

omg when they bitch about your purchases - give me strength

First.Aspect

I also think it has been an industry wide mistake to go from interchangeable to complete and manufacturer specific modules, for forks, bars, seatposts and stems. Similarly, the component manufacturers seem to be trying to each do their best to trap customers in their own ecosystem.

It is all too Apple and not enough Android.

It also misses the point that fundamentally a bicycle is not something that warrants built in obselescence. It is not a thing to be purchased every 5 years, so updating standards, removing back comparability, parts availability and IT support to products just drives away repeat custom. I already would struggle to replace the shifters, di2 cables and battery for my 2015 bike, and the pedals are no longer available.

I'll survive on old stock and eBay, but we get treated worse than car owners. Sorry sir, no I can't replace your windscreen because they aren't made any more. You will need a new car
... No.

ugo.santalucia

in other news, I have just rebuilt a wheel for a commuting colleague… 23 pounds of spokes and a couple of bottles of beer for me. Apparently, he was charged 50 pounds to replace a spoke from the local Evans cycles… at this rate, I’ll have to get back in business just to keep local people on the road… I mean WTF…

me-109

Interesting write up on the latest situation re the self-administration and circling vultures
https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/wiggle-crc-administration-signa-sports-united