2024 Election thread
Comments
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Debt service = principal repayments + interest.
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What is your view?
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It's kind of simple really.
Whatever the - and I'm going to use the term - boomers are whinging about it was perfectly possible for boringly normal middle class people to buy a house. Teachers, junior doctors, nurses etc. I'm fact you could buy a house, have a lesser expensive German car and go on a skiing holiday too. Perhaps a reason why the country's growth remains so anaemic is because everyone under 40 is spending all thier money on rent or deposits
The reality today is that in much of the country it isn't without a large windfall from the bank of Ma & Pa or a grandparents rapid passing.
Yes it's anecdotal but when Rick posts the data you ignore that too so...
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Lol. He was previously a senior civil servant at the Treasury in his 30s and his wife was a successful journalist at the time. Someone calculated that a couple at the same position now would have a combined income of ~£160k. Not too shabby. But it would afford you a scruffy bungalow in Hackney Wick, E9.
Davies has been ridiculed pretty much across the board for that interview
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Like I say. You can disagree - rightly - but he's fairly well informed, just a nob.
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Or maybe Rick doesn't want to address the point that that restricting housing demand by reducing net immigration can help to reduce house prices? But let's allow Rick to answer my point.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nope, you're missing my point. If you read the article the writer was explaining that it wasn't all a bed of roses for Boomers.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'd also like to hear Pangolins view. If he has one.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I asked him that yesterday and haven’t had a response. Just comments like the above despite most on here agreeing it’s an issue but (unsurprisingly) not being able to come up with a simple solution other than the obvious ‘relax planning regulations’.
From a purely selfish point of view, working in a business where a big chunk of work comes from housing development, I’d like there to be more even without the obvious fact that it is necessary but other than some not entirely serious suggestions I’ve made previously I don’t know how it gets done at the rate required.
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I was referring to the author of the opinion piece in the Telegraph (former editor of Country Life and architectural historian Clive Ashley). Just the man if your idea of a house has staff and grounds. Somewhat ironically, his own website features a little brag about dividing his time between his homes in Pimlico and Ramsgate.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
And still focusing on the cost of buying when that is a secondary issue. The primary problem is that there aren't enough houses.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Which takes me back to my point above. The number of people needing housing is a relevant factor, but there seems to be a marked reluctance to discuss the demand side of the equation by limiting net immigration.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
My view is that house affordability is an objectively bigger issue than it has been in recent history.
I don't know an obvious solution. But I agree with Rick that discussing solutions would be more interesting than yet another four Yorkshiremen bit about how it's always been tough.
FA makes a good point about number of new builds required, but I think perhaps underestimates how much just a small increase in housing stock would reduce peoples appetite to stretch to tens of thousands of pounds more than they really want to pay for a property. Even just knowing houses were being built in meaningful numbers would make people start pricing this in.
Maybe second homes and unoccupied foreign owned homes is part of the issue, but I don't know the numbers well enough to comment on that much.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Meh, I think by and large, that was still possible for a sizeable chunk of millennials particularly outside the SE. If you coupled up with a second professional then you could get on "the ladder" and you'd probably find that you felt weather, as your mortgage repayments were lower or similar to the rent, and no longer had the pressure of saving for a deposit.
For singletons, or for people with less well paying jobs bit of a shit show really.
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So fine as long as you're both professionals and have no kids. Which was not always the case. As ddraver was saying...
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I think the lack of new builds may be a localised problem as every area around me is forever expanding.
It's got to the point where people are asking where everyone is coming from. Commuter trains are overloaded though so a lack of infrastructure is a big part of the problem.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Indeed, I do think it's a significant issue, and I think any solutions are going to be very long term (which is the reason they need to be implemented asap). I suspect Gen Z will have an even worse time getting on to the housing ladder, and that being a professional couple will no longer be enough.
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Pray do tell which party you think is going to solve this.
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Thanks for the reply. I think buying property is easier now than 12 months ago as real wages are up, house prices are down and so too are interest rates. Rick's graph stops at the end of last year.
Also, I don't think it has been particularly easy to buy since 2007 when property was particularly expensive, but mortgages were easy. Other factors do have an impact such as job security and the overall economy.
So, really, the period in history when it was easy to buy is probably limited to 1995-2005. During that time a friend bought a place with another friend. Their lodger covered the entire cost of the mortgage.
Older posters are saying it wasn't great in the 80s either.
I think understanding the history is useful if you want others to buy into something and shouting it down as noise is about as helpful as dismissing legitimate complaints about property costs due to avocados.
My view is that it is not possible to expect everyone to be able to buy a property and inherit one (or half of one), so society needs to make a choice on that front. I've made my views on this clear.
It's also tricky if the population increases rapidly; however, I think this means people should accept smaller properties more densely built than endlessly expand all towns and cities. Others will disagree.
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The other factor that doesn't get discussed is the cost of building homes at the monent. Ignoring land and planning costs, the actual buildings themselves are not cheap.
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Because that's not where the pressure is coming from. And simply stopping all immigration creates significant other problems: we have a birth rate of 1.56 so without immigration the country fairly quickly becomes a nation of out-of-work benefit claimants (pensioners). Building more houses is essential to the future prosperity of the country.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think saying things are better than last year is a little like the conservatives claiming they've just reduced tax. Yes but with a huge asterisk next to it. I take your point though.
Not sure I follow your point about not everyone being able to buy and inherit? I mean yes we can't all collect homes, I imagine they don't all sit vacant though?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
The expectation is that someone on an average income can buy an average house. When they die, their average income child will then have two houses. Their grandchild will have three. Of course, they can sell the houses, but my point is that it is not sustainable - eventually everyone becomes infinitely rich.
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Exactly. Anyone who has had building work done since 2020 at least will know a) how hard it is to find someone decent to do the work and b) how expensive materials have become (although that has eased slightly). If you suddenly increased new builds by a significant factor both of these would become even worse and cost would increase faster (anyone looking to extend or refurbish an existing property would really struggle). We could make it more attractive for foreign builders to come and work here again but then they would also need places to live.
The easy politician solution is to make the planning process easier and free up more land and they are definitely vital parts but still only the beginning of a solution.
Looking at it the other way you can try to boost the economy so wages increase (which is another easy sound bite that is much harder to deliver) but that is likely to just result in house prices increasing.
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I suspect most get sold if the kids already own a house?
Thinking about it, if prices were relatively static the only people getting infinitely rich would be banks.
They're not static, so in the situation where the child has paid off their own mortgage the question is whether they make more than they paid for their own house in interest, maintenance, bills etc. I guess the answer is "it depends".
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
What makes you think that immigration isn't creating pressure on housing. If there is no change in housing supply then the approx. 700,000 per year coming into the country will definitely increase demand. So while building more houses is clearly part of the solution, so is limiting net immgration.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm not claiming any party can solve it. Which party do you think will solve it?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
