Should G swallow his pride and retire?
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If you want to restrict it to only those who have contended for GT places in the past, then I'd add in Nairo, Bardet and Uran.wakemalcolm said:
Hmmmn, not sure I understand the time travelling rules of this game. Regardless, let's chat around 5pm tomorrow.kingstongraham said:
No spoilers, but I'm still putting him down as a GT contender. (Not Gaudu.)wakemalcolm said:
“I don’t know. I don’t think it’s for me,” Kuss said when asked by VeloNews. “If one year there is a course with tons of high altitude climbs and no time trials, maybe I can go for it.”kingstongraham said:
Sepp Kuss, Adam Yates, and some people tried to insist that Gaudu was a contender this year.wakemalcolm said:
I see where you're headed with this but to play censored Advocaat for a moment, the stars did align when Roglic pulled out due to injury.Pross said:
The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.wakemalcolm said:
You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?Pross said:Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?
Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?
Rather than looking at who he finished behind, which genuine GT contenders did he beat? I agree, there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists in the GTs.
Should Ineos back G (and maybe hire censored Dastardly as a DS) or employ him in a different role to nurture emerging GT talent?
Yates was riding in the service of G
Gaudu? Like many, I was hopeful for him based on his 4th several minutes behind G. Am worried that he'll become the focus of celebrated French failure. Martinez might be the best thing to happen to him.
If you are restricting it only to those who contended for GT places in that race, then I agree, he didn't beat any people who got on the podium in that race.0 -
I think it has to be of its time, otherwise we'd end up bigging up Sastre for his crushing defeat of Froome in 2008 😉.================================
Cake is just weakness entering the body1 -
He beat Froome in the TDF before Froome's accident and was at least on par with Bernal the following year. In fact, he'd probably (IMO) have beaten Bernal that year but for the neutralisation of stage 19.super_davo said:Very good rider, able to peak for the biggest events well, but was always a notch behind Froome pre his accident. Bernal was the anointed replacement, an his accident and back have held him back
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Yeah, but Froome had done (and won) a very hard Giro in 2018 before that tour. His prep was also a bit whack due to the legal case over the previous Vuelta. G was on fire that tour, best he'd ever ridden, but Froome was definitely not at his.DeadCalm said:
He beat Froome in the TDF before Froome's accident and was at least on par with Bernal the following year. In fact, he'd probably (IMO) have beaten Bernal that year but for the neutralisation of stage 19.super_davo said:Very good rider, able to peak for the biggest events well, but was always a notch behind Froome pre his accident. Bernal was the anointed replacement, an his accident and back have held him back
Agree in 2019, people were very keen to say it was the start of the Bernal era and he was going to win X tours, but G was every bit as strong if not stronger.2 -
2018 giro was insanely hard . Crazy froome tried for thr double .super_davo said:
Yeah, but Froome had done (and won) a very hard Giro in 2018 before that tour. His prep was also a bit whack due to the legal case over the previous Vuelta. G was on fire that tour, best he'd ever ridden, but Froome was definitely not at his.DeadCalm said:
He beat Froome in the TDF before Froome's accident and was at least on par with Bernal the following year. In fact, he'd probably (IMO) have beaten Bernal that year but for the neutralisation of stage 19.super_davo said:Very good rider, able to peak for the biggest events well, but was always a notch behind Froome pre his accident. Bernal was the anointed replacement, an his accident and back have held him back
Agree in 2019, people were very keen to say it was the start of the Bernal era and he was going to win X tours, but G was every bit as strong if not stronger.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I also suspect G would have won one, possibly 2 Giros if he had managed to avoid crashing into various objects.super_davo said:
Yeah, but Froome had done (and won) a very hard Giro in 2018 before that tour. His prep was also a bit whack due to the legal case over the previous Vuelta. G was on fire that tour, best he'd ever ridden, but Froome was definitely not at his.DeadCalm said:
He beat Froome in the TDF before Froome's accident and was at least on par with Bernal the following year. In fact, he'd probably (IMO) have beaten Bernal that year but for the neutralisation of stage 19.super_davo said:Very good rider, able to peak for the biggest events well, but was always a notch behind Froome pre his accident. Bernal was the anointed replacement, an his accident and back have held him back
Agree in 2019, people were very keen to say it was the start of the Bernal era and he was going to win X tours, but G was every bit as strong if not stronger.2 -
It is weird reading posts having a go at Thomas because he only does well by being so good at staying upright when everyone else fails to finish.5
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...and how he is bad when he doesn't stay upright.kingstongraham said:It is weird reading posts having a go at Thomas because he only does well by being so good at staying upright when everyone else fails to finish.
That said, the end is nigh as a GC leader.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I think he would have had a better palmares if he'd decided to focus on the Giro and Vuelta after '18. I never really thought he'd be a multiple tour winner (although he came closer than I thought he might).
It's impossible to know how Froome would have fared if he hadn't done the Giro but for me, with his form prior to it, G was the stand out favourite for the 18 tour.
With regard to the staying upright thing, I don't think he can be held accountable for random rolling neutral zone bidons, incorrectly parked Motos or flying flaneuring Frenchmen.================================
Cake is just weakness entering the body1 -
For 2 of those incidents, if he was at the front, they couldn't have happened.wakemalcolm said:I think he would have had a better palmares if he'd decided to focus on the Giro and Vuelta after '18. I never really thought he'd be a multiple tour winner (although he came closer than I thought he might).
It's impossible to know how Froome would have fared if he hadn't done the Giro but for me, with his form prior to it, G was the stand out favourite for the 18 tour.
With regard to the staying upright thing, I don't think he can be held accountable for random rolling neutral zone bidons, incorrectly parked Motos or flying flaneuring Frenchmen.0 -
Also, some riders manage to not fall even when they ride over something. For example, I can remember Sagan not falling in P-R when his bike seemed to slip to an impossible angle.0
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Although he did fall (in flanders??) when he caught a spectators jersey / flag.TheBigBean said:Also, some riders manage to not fall even when they ride over something. For example, I can remember Sagan not falling in P-R when his bike seemed to slip to an impossible angle.
You can't blame a rider for going down in freak circumstances - like G with the water bottle.2 -
Was just about to post that (2017?). He was at the front of the group too which, I'm told, is the place to go to avoid otherwise unforeseen accidents.redvision said:
Although he did fall (in flanders??) when he caught a spectators jersey / flag.TheBigBean said:Also, some riders manage to not fall even when they ride over something. For example, I can remember Sagan not falling in P-R when his bike seemed to slip to an impossible angle.
You can't blame a rider for going down in freak circumstances - like G with the water bottle.================================
Cake is just weakness entering the body0 -
All riders fall at some point. It is still possible that some are more likely to fall.0
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He wasn’t at the very front though, obviously. 😉wakemalcolm said:
Was just about to post that (2017?). He was at the front of the group too which, I'm told, is the place to go to avoid otherwise unforeseen accidents.redvision said:
Although he did fall (in flanders??) when he caught a spectators jersey / flag.TheBigBean said:Also, some riders manage to not fall even when they ride over something. For example, I can remember Sagan not falling in P-R when his bike seemed to slip to an impossible angle.
You can't blame a rider for going down in freak circumstances - like G with the water bottle.
Just out of devilment.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The art of reducing the number of offs one has is foresight
seeing the danger ahead . Everyone gets freaky crashes but not everyone puts themselves in harm's way as much or has late save reflexes . The volume of crashes g has points to something. The numbers don't lie"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Not sure how.wakemalcolm said:I think he would have had a better palmares if he'd decided to focus on the Giro and Vuelta after '18. I never really thought he'd be a multiple tour winner (although he came closer than I thought he might).
It's impossible to know how Froome would have fared if he hadn't done the Giro but for me, with his form prior to it, G was the stand out favourite for the 18 tour.
With regard to the staying upright thing, I don't think he can be held accountable for random rolling neutral zone bidons, incorrectly parked Motos or flying flaneuring Frenchmen.
But for freak weather, as previously mentioned, he would probably have won the 2019 tour. Nevertheless he still finished runner up.
2020 he did indeed lead the Giro team, only to have a brief encounter with a stray bidon. TGH admirably stepped into the breach.
Meanwhile, the team had a disastrous tour, failing the place a rider in the top 25.
Okay, so maybe in 2021 he could have added a Giro result, but that would have come at the expense of Egan Bernal, who won it that year.
Ineos also had Martinez in 5th."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
TBH, Thomas doesn't remotely get enough love because he was neither the first TDF winner (Wiggins) or the most prolific (Froome) Brit of his generation.
He's a good interviewee, likeable, very solid. Rare he has a shocker. A bit crash happy, but also bounces quite well.
The podium in last year's tour was really a quality performance, and he almost won the Giro but for the final stage.
Unlike Wiggins he didn't need the most boring course in living memory to win the Tour, and he even has an outstanding track palmares too, if you care about that.5 -
G has had a great career . Really varied too"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm5
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Four podiums in GTs (1 win), wins at the Dauphine, Paris Nice, Romandie, and the Tour de Suisse along with top 10s in Roubaix and Flanders would have made him one of the greatest British cyclists ever until 15 years ago.4
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The thing is, once you've won the BBC sports personality of the year award what else is there to strive for?0
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A velodrome named after you?focuszing723 said:The thing is, once you've won the BBC sports personality of the year award what else is there to strive for?
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I think you're probably right here, but G hasn't always ridden for GC riding in support for others which might be a factor.mididoctors said:The art of reducing the number of offs one has is foresight
seeing the danger ahead . Everyone gets freaky crashes but not everyone puts themselves in harm's way as much or has late save reflexes . The volume of crashes g has points to something. The numbers don't lie1 -
I agree, he is a legend and his pod is a great listen. he comes across like a proper team leader too.rick_chasey said:TBH, Thomas doesn't remotely get enough love because he was neither the first TDF winner (Wiggins) or the most prolific (Froome) Brit of his generation.
He's a good interviewee, likeable, very solid. Rare he has a shocker. A bit crash happy, but also bounces quite well.
The podium in last year's tour was really a quality performance, and he almost won the Giro but for the final stage.
Unlike Wiggins he didn't need the most boring course in living memory to win the Tour, and he even has an outstanding track palmares too, if you care about that.
He also knows himself pretty well and 'avoids losing a grand tour' in the same way Cadel maybe did, rather than Contador / Froome / Pog going out to win it.2 -
I think he is one of the Greatest British Cyclists. He struggled after Covid but really persevered to achieve great results.phreak said:Four podiums in GTs (1 win), wins at the Dauphine, Paris Nice, Romandie, and the Tour de Suisse along with top 10s in Roubaix and Flanders would have made him one of the greatest British cyclists ever until 15 years ago.
BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme1 -
Dimly remembering my stats from uni, you'd expect it to be a Poisson distribution. Basically it'll always look a bit fishy for somebody because although accidents are rare there's lots of opportunities for them to happen. Especially, it seems, to Thomas.mididoctors said:The numbers don't lie
tl:dr - numbers frequently do lie.
Happy for somebody more au fait with stats to tell me I'm talking balls with 95% confidence here though.0 -
Sagan avoiding a crash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zftjhsTHjw
Thomas crashing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZMNgApEz3g
Obviously only one incident, but it is possible that some riders handle crashes better.0 -
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The videos recently linked demonstrate two different elements to crashing: One is positioning to avoid mass pileups and stray bottles. One is "bike handling" to stay upright. The former can be addressed by teamwork and not being "asleep at the wheel". The latter is simply a reflection of natural physical abilities. Big lungs are not always going to be accompanied by ballet dancer like body control on a bike, however hard one practices, and someone has to be at the wrong end of the body control bell curve.Lanterne_Rogue said:
Dimly remembering my stats from uni, you'd expect it to be a Poisson distribution. Basically it'll always look a bit fishy for somebody because although accidents are rare there's lots of opportunities for them to happen. Especially, it seems, to Thomas.mididoctors said:The numbers don't lie
tl:dr - numbers frequently do lie.
Happy for somebody more au fait with stats to tell me I'm talking balls with 95% confidence here though.0 -
Is struggling post-Covid because of Covid or because of his age post-Covid?davidof said:
I think he is one of the Greatest British Cyclists. He struggled after Covid but really persevered to achieve great results.phreak said:Four podiums in GTs (1 win), wins at the Dauphine, Paris Nice, Romandie, and the Tour de Suisse along with top 10s in Roubaix and Flanders would have made him one of the greatest British cyclists ever until 15 years ago.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b7XgO89pS0
