Should G swallow his pride and retire?

wakemalcolm

Betteridge's law time beckons for G.

Clearly the answer is no, but it looks like he needs to take a step back and reconsider his objectives.

Will Ineos entertain sending him to GTs in the hope of a podium if the A-list contenders fall off or take ill?

Could he reinvent himself as a road captain or mountain domestique?

Has he mentioned his once stated goal of doing Iron Man since meeting Cameron Wurf?

super_davo

Obviously no. But the fact he's been Ineos best GT rider for the last few years says a lot about what's been going wrong there.

Very good rider, able to peak for the biggest events well, but was always a notch behind Froome pre his accident. Bernal was the anointed replacement, an his accident and back have held him back; but Pog, Vinegard and even Evanepoel are on another level. Considerably better on TTs, and you would think they are more likely to drop Bernal on climbs than the other way round. Rodriguez may be the answer, but still much to improve on.

G's Indian summer has kept Ineos in the conversation as GC team.

redvision

I think he's got at least another year in his legs. He's shown he can still compete for GTs but Ineos haven't helped him by asking him to ride two in a season - which is probably fine for someone his age as a support rider but not going for the GC.

Pross

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

Pross

I mean, he’s come closer than any rider not in Jumbo Visma to winning a GT this year and that’s unlikely to change after the Vuelta.

rick_chasey

Lad has been on a podium of a GT that matters in each of the last two seasons.

DeVlaeminck

I think it'll come down to motivation and whether Ineos are willing to pay him what he wants - I'm assuming he's not got a contract of course.

He's spoken about modern cycling requiring more time away from family and with Rowe not being around he may feel it's time.

wakemalcolm

When you've got Ayuso saying that he can only eat what he wants for 4 days a year whereas G likes to take a whole month off to go out on the lash, it's clear that the game has changed.

Sadly G will be long retired by the time that Juan realises that he can't motivate himself to live like that indefinitely.

wakemalcolm

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

wallace_and_gromit

redvision said:

I think he's got at least another year in his legs. He's shown he can still compete for GTs but Ineos haven't helped him by asking him to ride two in a season - which is probably fine for someone his age as a support rider but not going for the GC.

That was my thinking. Riding for two GT GCs in a year is a tough challenge, and maybe an insurmountable one at G's age.

Maybe the question should be "Should G choose to step away from leadership duties on his own terms?"

It's always better to leave the audience wanting a bit more than to outstay your welcome.

kingstongraham

1st, 2nd, 3rd in TDF and 2nd in the Giro since 2018 isn't quite Chris Froome territory yet, is it?

super_davo

wallace_and_gromit said:

redvision said:

I think he's got at least another year in his legs. He's shown he can still compete for GTs but Ineos haven't helped him by asking him to ride two in a season - which is probably fine for someone his age as a support rider but not going for the GC.

That was my thinking. Riding for two GT GCs in a year is a tough challenge, and maybe an insurmountable one at G's age.

Maybe the question should be "Should G choose to step away from leadership duties on his own terms?"

It's always better to leave the audience wanting a bit more than to outstay your welcome.

I think this is it on a nutshell. He's still riding for GC because he's at a GC team and he is their best GC rider. But he wasn't when he was aged 33, so the fact he now is aged 37 says more about the others in the team than it does him.
Two grand tour GCs a year was a push even for peak Froome.

focuszing723

37 though, win a GT?

focuszing723

https://sicycle.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/never-too-old-age-and-grand-tour-stage-winners/
GT stage wins by age. I know winning a GT is different, but still.

mididoctors

Longest stage race I think I ever did was 3 days ...

Racing for consecutive days,🤔

wallace_and_gromit

focuszing723 said:

https://sicycle.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/never-too-old-age-and-grand-tour-stage-winners/
GT stage wins by age. I know winning a GT is different, but still.

That's quite scary as graphs go. The drop-off from early 30s to mid/late 30s particularly so. GT riding is a young man's game.

mididoctors

focuszing723 said:

37 though, win a GT?

Horner was 67

mooro

wallace_and_gromit said:

focuszing723 said:

https://sicycle.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/never-too-old-age-and-grand-tour-stage-winners/
GT stage wins by age. I know winning a GT is different, but still.

That's quite scary as graphs go. The drop-off from early 30s to mid/late 30s particularly so. GT riding is a young man's game.

i agree he is rding a young mans game and souhld maybe consider classis in a final season next year.

The graph is also stage wins rather than grand tour wins which is different and more about consistency. Be good to see grand tour wins tough, I suspect the peak is closer to 30/31 but will clearly still tail off quickly

Pross

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.

mooro

mididoctors said:

focuszing723 said:

37 though, win a GT?

Horner was 67

? haematocrit

focuszing723

mooro said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

focuszing723 said:

https://sicycle.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/never-too-old-age-and-grand-tour-stage-winners/
GT stage wins by age. I know winning a GT is different, but still.

That's quite scary as graphs go. The drop-off from early 30s to mid/late 30s particularly so. GT riding is a young man's game.

i agree he is rding a young mans game and souhld maybe consider classis in a final season next year.

The graph is also stage wins rather than grand tour wins which is different and more about consistency. Be good to see grand tour wins tough, I suspect the peak is closer to 30/31 but will clearly still tail off quickly

I tried to find one, alas, so had to use that graph to support my bias.

wallace_and_gromit

mooro said:

Be good to see grand tour wins tough, I suspect the peak is closer to 30/31 but will clearly still tail off quickly

My understanding from my rowing days (some decades distant now) was that for males, the peak age for aerobic capacity in disciplines where impact damage isn't a big issue was 28-34, so 30/31 for peak GT wins sounds reasonable. e.g. the GB men who won in the four in 2008 were 24, 32, 27 and 29 (average 28) with three of them also in the winning 2012 crew (average age 30). The 2016 winning eight averaged age 31.

The peak age for males running tended to be lower as so many runners are finished off by impact injuries. Shoe developments may have changed this though.

wakemalcolm

Pross said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.

I see where you're headed with this but to play Dick Advocaat for a moment, the stars did align when Roglic pulled out due to injury.

Rather than looking at who he finished behind, which genuine GT contenders did he beat? I agree, there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists in the GTs.

Should Ineos back G (and maybe hire Dick Dastardly as a DS) or employ him in a different role to nurture emerging GT talent?

kingstongraham

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.

I see where you're headed with this but to play censored Advocaat for a moment, the stars did align when Roglic pulled out due to injury.

Rather than looking at who he finished behind, which genuine GT contenders did he beat? I agree, there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists in the GTs.

Should Ineos back G (and maybe hire censored Dastardly as a DS) or employ him in a different role to nurture emerging GT talent?

Sepp Kuss, Adam Yates, and some people tried to insist that Gaudu was a contender this year.

Pross

Who are the other GT contenders? There's really only three at the moment (possibly four with Remco) and the top couple will always be at the Tour.

wakemalcolm

kingstongraham said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.

I see where you're headed with this but to play censored Advocaat for a moment, the stars did align when Roglic pulled out due to injury.

Rather than looking at who he finished behind, which genuine GT contenders did he beat? I agree, there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists in the GTs.

Should Ineos back G (and maybe hire censored Dastardly as a DS) or employ him in a different role to nurture emerging GT talent?

Sepp Kuss, Adam Yates, and some people tried to insist that Gaudu was a contender this year.

“I don’t know. I don’t think it’s for me,” Kuss said when asked by VeloNews. “If one year there is a course with tons of high altitude climbs and no time trials, maybe I can go for it.”

Yates was riding in the service of G

Gaudu? Like many, I was hopeful for him based on his 4th several minutes behind G. Am worried that he'll become the focus of celebrated French failure. Martinez might be the best thing to happen to him.

wakemalcolm

Pross said:

Who are the other GT contenders? There's really only three at the moment (possibly four with Remco) and the top couple will always be at the Tour.

Vehemently agree. Are Ineos going to get closer to them or further away by backing G as a leader in the GTs or do they need to deploy him in a different role?

rick_chasey

mooro said:

mididoctors said:

focuszing723 said:

37 though, win a GT?

Horner was 67

? haematocrit

Glad I checked before making the same joke

drhaggis

You're untouchable by pretty much anyone you cross in your training rides. You probably beat the crap of all the kids racing against you in the junior ranks. And then you realise there's pretty much zero chance you'll ever win anythin important. It must suck.

kingstongraham

wakemalcolm said:

kingstongraham said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.

I see where you're headed with this but to play censored Advocaat for a moment, the stars did align when Roglic pulled out due to injury.

Rather than looking at who he finished behind, which genuine GT contenders did he beat? I agree, there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists in the GTs.

Should Ineos back G (and maybe hire censored Dastardly as a DS) or employ him in a different role to nurture emerging GT talent?

Sepp Kuss, Adam Yates, and some people tried to insist that Gaudu was a contender this year.

“I don’t know. I don’t think it’s for me,” Kuss said when asked by VeloNews. “If one year there is a course with tons of high altitude climbs and no time trials, maybe I can go for it.”

Yates was riding in the service of G

Gaudu? Like many, I was hopeful for him based on his 4th several minutes behind G. Am worried that he'll become the focus of celebrated French failure. Martinez might be the best thing to happen to him.

No spoilers, but I'm still putting him down as a GT contender. (Not Gaudu.)

wakemalcolm

kingstongraham said:

wakemalcolm said:

kingstongraham said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

wakemalcolm said:

Pross said:

Is this the same G that was second in the Giro year and who for most of the race led the guy Remco is struggling with at the Vuelta?

You mean the guy who had key team mates wiped out by COVID, spent most of the first week suggesting that he had COVID like symptoms, got taken out in week 2 by G's internal competition yet still had enough spare in the TT to drop his chain and win comfortably(ish),?

Unfortunately, I think that's the kind of star alignment Geraint needs to place well these days. Should Ineos still take him along as Plan B (or plan G)?

The stars aligned for 3rd behind the standout GT riders of the current generation at the Tour last year too then. If he should retire on the basis of two GT podiums in the last two seasons then there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists.

I see where you're headed with this but to play censored Advocaat for a moment, the stars did align when Roglic pulled out due to injury.

Rather than looking at who he finished behind, which genuine GT contenders did he beat? I agree, there's no hope for the vast majority of pro cyclists in the GTs.

Should Ineos back G (and maybe hire censored Dastardly as a DS) or employ him in a different role to nurture emerging GT talent?

Sepp Kuss, Adam Yates, and some people tried to insist that Gaudu was a contender this year.

“I don’t know. I don’t think it’s for me,” Kuss said when asked by VeloNews. “If one year there is a course with tons of high altitude climbs and no time trials, maybe I can go for it.”

Yates was riding in the service of G

Gaudu? Like many, I was hopeful for him based on his 4th several minutes behind G. Am worried that he'll become the focus of celebrated French failure. Martinez might be the best thing to happen to him.

No spoilers, but I'm still putting him down as a GT contender. (Not Gaudu.)

Hmmmn, not sure I understand the time travelling rules of this game. Regardless, let's chat around 5pm tomorrow.