The beer (and occasionally wine) thread

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,435
    rjsterry said:

    I only drink my wine at 17.72c...
    Bet Musk thinks he can tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine.

    Says here he even prefers a fancy glass.

    Checkmate.
    But Musk is a superior being and probably has far superior taste buds than us mere mortals.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,435
    Stevo_666 said:

    For me, once you get over a tenner it's the law of diminishing returns. Best to have the first glass or two of nice wine then move onto the cheap stuff as by then you won't notice.

    I’m not much of a wine drinker and know nothing about it but when I have it on the rare occasions I go somewhere posh I tend to find it tastes worse as the night goes on for some reason. Maybe they’re taking advantage and serving cheaper stuff in the hope no-one notices.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,517
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    For me, once you get over a tenner it's the law of diminishing returns. Best to have the first glass or two of nice wine then move onto the cheap stuff as by then you won't notice.

    I’m not much of a wine drinker and know nothing about it but when I have it on the rare occasions I go somewhere posh I tend to find it tastes worse as the night goes on for some reason. Maybe they’re taking advantage and serving cheaper stuff in the hope no-one notices.
    It that when the food runs out?

  • Yet your example shows that about half could tell the difference, even with "cheaper" pricier wine that was being talked about at the time.

    Or, folk just guess, with half guessing correctly, as you'd expect in a "two horse race".

  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,515
    Why would you expect half to guess correctly in a "two horse race"?
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,500
    If you can't actually tell the difference, that's exactly what you would expect isn't it?
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    Pross said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    For me, once you get over a tenner it's the law of diminishing returns. Best to have the first glass or two of nice wine then move onto the cheap stuff as by then you won't notice.

    I’m not much of a wine drinker and know nothing about it but when I have it on the rare occasions I go somewhere posh I tend to find it tastes worse as the night goes on for some reason. Maybe they’re taking advantage and serving cheaper stuff in the hope no-one notices.

    In my very limited experience, a properly good bottle of wine reveals more and more as you work down the bottle, and why those pesky experienced Frenchies' complex wines are often more interesting than the in-yer-face-in-the-first-mouthful upstarts. Though my normal budget has meant I can count those experiences on the fingers of a hand or two.
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,515
    monkimark said:

    If you can't actually tell the difference, that's exactly what you would expect isn't it?

    I suggest you read some Stoppard.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,663
    I have several bottles of French chateau and couple Italian equivalent wines of 30+ years lurking in a wine rack outtasight. Odds of wowza vs vinegar?
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,500
    Maybe I will. Maybe I won't.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    orraloon said:

    I have several bottles of French chateau and couple Italian equivalent wines of 30+ years lurking in a wine rack outtasight. Odds of wowza vs vinegar?


    Best bottle of wine I had was one I stashed away in my magic cupboard... think it was about 15yo by the time it got opened, and pretty sure it was from a grateful parent who had inherited her father's rather impressive cellar - the sort of one which had auction-able bottles. The other was a Grand Cru Château Prieuré-Lichine 1990ish, which I bought in Morlaix in 1993 and didn't keep long enough, but it was still well lush.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,663

    orraloon said:

    I have several bottles of French chateau and couple Italian equivalent wines of 30+ years lurking in a wine rack outtasight. Odds of wowza vs vinegar?


    Best bottle of wine I had was one I stashed away in my magic cupboard... think it was about 15yo by the time it got opened, and pretty sure it was from a grateful parent who had inherited her father's rather impressive cellar - the sort of one which had auction-able bottles. The other was a Grand Cru Château Prieuré-Lichine 1990ish, which I bought in Morlaix in 1993 and didn't keep long enough, but it was still well lush.
    Mayhap I should just flog them on that there bay thing and let someone else toss the coin. 🤔
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    orraloon said:

    orraloon said:

    I have several bottles of French chateau and couple Italian equivalent wines of 30+ years lurking in a wine rack outtasight. Odds of wowza vs vinegar?


    Best bottle of wine I had was one I stashed away in my magic cupboard... think it was about 15yo by the time it got opened, and pretty sure it was from a grateful parent who had inherited her father's rather impressive cellar - the sort of one which had auction-able bottles. The other was a Grand Cru Château Prieuré-Lichine 1990ish, which I bought in Morlaix in 1993 and didn't keep long enough, but it was still well lush.
    Mayhap I should just flog them on that there bay thing and let someone else toss the coin. 🤔

    Worth asking a proper wine merchant first. The grateful parent in my case had an estimate on a couple of the bottles that would have replaced her car.

    I've no idea to this day how much the bottle she gave me was worth (I suspect only in the £10s), but I'm glad I had no idea either way. It was just sublime, and not spoilt by thinking about how much each glass might have been worth.
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2023
    @orraloon it depends on the producer and the vintage/year. A top Bordeaux/Burgundy or an Italian Barolo from a good year will still be very drinkable at 30 years, assuming it has been stored well.

    If you are talking seriously collectable stuff i.e. Bordeaux 1st or 2nd growths from good vintages, they would be worth a lot of money.

    I had a bottle of 1986 Lafite Rothschild (long since drunk!). Today that is a £1000 bottle of wine!
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196

    Another well-publicized double-blind taste test was conducted in 2011 by Prof. Richard Wiseman of the University of Hertfordshire.
    In a wine tasting experiment using 400 participants, Wiseman found that general members of the public were unable to distinguish expensive wines from inexpensive ones. "People just could not tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine."


    Expensive wines are an example of a Veblen good, a luxury good for which the demand increases as the price increases. Unlike with common goods, where demand goes up when the price goes down, Veblen goods, such as diamonds, mechanical watches, perfume and wines are more desirable for consumers when the price is higher. Consumer perceive Veblen goods as better quality, exclusive and associate them with status or special occasions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting

    I'm right you're all wrong.

    Wine snobs!
    This is general members of the public, would be interesting to see what it looks like for "enthusiasts".

    In the same way that if you put someone off the street on a cheap road bike vs an expensive one they'd not really be able to tell the difference.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Anyway FWIW my usual budget is £10-£15/bottle for wine. I know what I like best by now and it's cab sauv or cab sauv blends (either old or new world) which isn't usually a "volume" drinking wine. I like it because it is usually dry and tannic - my dad likes the big jammy Australian Shiraz and stuff, which I don't really like.

    I like oak on anything (beer included), either American or French. I find strong American oak is one of the easiest things to identify in a red. One of my favourite wines is the Napa Pine Ridge Cab Sauv - but it is far too expensive to drink normally. And too rich to drink a lot of anyway. I like some bordeauxs a lot but I think you are paying a markup for the name a lot there.

    For "oaky and dry" rioja is usually the easiest thing to buy in supermarkets - for £8 or so you can get a crianza or reserva rioja that's got both those things so I usually go for that as a safe cheapish option I know I'll like. I also like other tempranillo based ones like a ribera del duero.

    I have a 2001 South African Cab Sauv (Boekenhoutskloof) at home that I am looking forward to :smile:
  • There are two separate questions to wine tasting I think. 'What do you prefer?' versus 'do you know what this is?'

    Someone with a bit of knowledge is going to pick up on wine styles/grapes/region as they will have some level of knowledge of wine and tasted a fair few. If you have a decent palate you should be able to pick up on what grape variety it is and maybe even where it was made, assuming you have drunk the same or similar wine before.

    The quality issue tends to be wrapped up in 'what do you prefer?. People who don't really drink wine are perhaps going to go for more straightforward styles with higher residual sugar as people tend to go for sweet over acidity. That's where the snobbery accusations come in, people who are enthusiasts will say those wines lack complexity and then get accused of being snobbish about it.

    Basically, find what you like and drink that is my view. I would say I have tasted a fair few wines over the years and am happy to spend more on what I would class as more interesting or unusual wines, but if your thing is a £8 shiraz from the supermarket then go with that.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    So last night on the ferry we spotted a wine we had before when we were out in Rioja. We had gone a tour of the winery/ Bodega plus wine tasting.
    So at just over 30 quid a bottle it was very nice, however last time it was 5 quid a bottle if you bought a case and they threw in 6 wine glasses and an engraved carafe. 🤣🤣🤣