New bike sluggish to ride

chippie_chappie

Hi can anyone help me? I have just bought a 2022 BMC roadmachine 2 Force Etap AXS. I’ve ridden it 3 times now and I every time it has felt sluggish to ride and twice as hard on the hills as my previous two bikes that I sold to buy this one. My previous bikes were a Giant Defy advanced pro 0 2017 and a Felt VR3 2017 theGiant 11-34 cassette and a compact 50/34 crank the Felt had 11-36 cassette and a 46/30 crank the BMC has 10-36 cassette and a 46/33 crank it came with DG Swiss E 1800 spline wheels 1810 gms for the set fitted with Vittoria Rubino pro tyres. The Giant had Giant SLR 1 carbon wheels fitted with Continental gp5000 TL tyres the Felt VR3 had Mavic Kysirium allroad wheels also fitted with Conventional gp500 TL tyres test this new BMC is 2.( to 6 percent slower on my local routes and climbs than the two bikes I’ve mentioned this was as recently as March April. The BMC is ridiculous hard on the climbs that despite lower gears than the Giant. It feels like I’m riding through treacle. It feels slow freewheeling down hill too. I’m a regular rider I ride 180 to 200 miles a week in summer with at least ten centuries thrown in, I have ftp of 3.07 w/kg so I would consider myself reasonably fit and this thing is a nightmare to ride. I’ve got a pair of Mavic Cosmic SL 45mm deep wheels and a pair of Continental gp5000 S TR tyres to go on which should save me around ten watts rolling resistance will this make much difference to the bike? Any info would be highly appreciated.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Unless there is drag being created by something mechanical, it just seems like it is a personal perception on how the bike feels to ride.

Unless you have a power meter to test power numbers across different bikes, it is hard to tell whether there is a difference. For example, if you were having to push out much more power for a similar speed and in similar conditions to the giant, that could suggest the BMC isn't as aero or efficient with power transfer, hence the sluggish feel. Without that though it is guesswork really.

seanoconn

Do the wheels spin freely? No brake rub?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Geometry comparable between bikes?

Check for brake rotor rub.

IIRC I've got a pair of 28mm Rubino Pros, they feel much slower than GP5000s with latex tubes, fine for winter rides but I'd much rather run fast rubber for summer.

trevor.hall12

The tyres deffo won't be helping .

plymouthsteve

The wheels. Simple as.
The bike is better than the wheels.
Might seem a shame to think about spending again, but that is a great bike in a lovely spec, but with wheels found on bikes at half the price.
Something like Hunt alloy SL at sub 1500g and sub £500, with gp5000 and away you go.
Apologies in advance if we start another wheels debate.
I did once have a similar experience with my first specialized tarmac about 10 years ago. Swore blind that my roubaix was quicker. Bike shop laughed and said it can't be the bike and to be fair, gave me a free bike fit. Never looked back so that's another thought.

First.Aspect

Latest consumer news shows large numbers of cyclists are shocked that new bikes aren't getting any faster.

joeyhalloran

While I agree that the number bike shouldn't be all that much faster it also shouldn't be all that much slower either.

I'd say there will be a noticeable difference coming from the tyres if the Vittoria Rubino are the old training tyres I used to use.

Other than that it sounds like brake rub. Or perhaps you have an underlying bug or something which is causing exercise to feel harder.

Have you got a powermeter, are you putting out the same power for the speed?

chippie_chappie

Hi everyone thanks for the input. There is brake rub and the wheels spin freely. I don’t have a power meter fitted at the moment but I have got the Sram Quark crank based power meter spider to be fitted so we will see then. But the bike as it stands is 3 to 6 percent slower than my Giant and Felt were. That was my suspicion that it was the wheels and tyre combo. I thought they cheap tat to be putting on a £5700 bike. I got a good deal on a set of Mavic Cosmic SL’s in 45mm rim depth beautiful looking wheels 300 guns lighter than the DT Swiss E 1800 spline that came with the bike, are these any good? They have good reviews. I’ve also got a pair of Continental gp5000 S TR tyres to fit to them plus the power meter spider. This should make a big difference to how the bike performs won’t it?
Someone said have I had a bug recently and exercise is feeling harder, no! No bug I am feeling fine it’s definitely the bike being hard to ride. I have done two centuries the last two Sundays. Last Sunday the bike just felt horrible like riding through treacle.
Hopefully the wheel and tyre upgrade will make a significant difference to how the bike rides and feels.

singleton

If it were me, I'd change the tyres first and see if that makes a difference.
Keep the old tyres so if you decide to change the wheels later, you can always put the old tyres back on the old wheels and maybe use them in the winter.

Anecdotally, I had the same wheels on an older bike and I changed them. I have had other ST Swiss wheels which I liked, but when I was riding on those ones I just kept going backwards...

Edit:
I have some of these (but for Shimano) and find them to be pretty good:
https://www.mailordercycles.com/m9b156s118p4328/Vision-SC40-Disc-Carbon-Wheelset-Sram-XDR-Freehub/RS_GB/16526

sw19carpenters

Do you use Strava or similar to see what your times/speed are on new bike to previous.?
I'm not riding anything like you and only on my 2nd road bike in 3 years but when I just went from Trek emonda 2013 to Trek emonda 2022 my initial thoughts were nothing feels right and that I'd wasted my money.
After a few tweaks to saddle and hood position it feels like a flying machine and I'm glad I went for it now.

pblakeney

If it is all about the wheels why not swap over from existing bikes to check first? Tyres too.

chippie_chappie

The bike came with cheap and nasty wheels DT Swiss E1800 spline so I am upgrading them to some nice carbon wheels, I have a set of Mavic Cosmic SL 45mm deep which I read is the sweet spot for wheel depth and I am going to fit some Continental gp5000 S TR tyres to them with sealant. Yes I use Strava and ride with gps and my averages on the new bike are 3 to 6 percent down on what I was achieving on my Felt VR3 which was my Autumn/winter bike which I was using up until pretty much into April then I switched back ho my Giant defy advanced pro 0 for a few weeks until I sold them and switched to my new BMC and that’s when I thought nothing feels right on this thing. Next thing I’m going to do is save for a Bakker fit at my LBC.

Tashman

How does it compare to your previous sluggish rides?

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113882/bike-is-hard-to-pedal#latest
https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113882/bike-is-hard-to-pedal#latest

drhaggis

Tashman said:

How does it compare to your previous sluggish rides?

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113882/bike-is-hard-to-pedal#latest
https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113882/bike-is-hard-to-pedal#latest

Well, the winter 2020 Felt VR3 seems to be mentioned here as feeling faster...

seanoconn

Tashman said:

How does it compare to your previous sluggish rides?

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113882/bike-is-hard-to-pedal#latest
https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113882/bike-is-hard-to-pedal#latest

Good spot Tashman 👍

chippie_chappie

Hi everybody the bike felt ok last week almost the same as the bikes I sold but today it was back to feeling sluggish, worse than ever. Despite my power meter saying my ftp is now 3.1 w/kg I couldn't even manage 14 mph i did 13.9 mph there was a hooley of a headwind but I would still expect a higher average speed than that. I honestly thought a lighter set of carbon wheels and fast rolling tyres would have made a difference but apparently not. I still think its the bottom bracket when I got home and spun the crank from the top of the crank it wouldn't even do one complete rotation so seems very stiff to me.

joeyhalloran

yeah, that sounds wrong. If I back spin my cranks in a gear on the middle of the cassette I'll usually get 3 or 4 revolutions.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

As above, not even one full turn of the crank seems amiss. Suggests either something wrong with the bearings or something wrong with the crank installation. I had an example where the incorrect BB was fitted to a frame (not by me!). It was only about 0.5mm out but it totally knackered the BB and resulted in similar, not being able to turn the cranks properly.

First.Aspect

Does not sound right but unless it gets much more significant when you are pedaling, it's not going to explain why the bike feels sluggish.

Just a wild guess, but I think it's you.

trevor.hall12

Sounds like the bb bearings are being crushed to slow the crank .
Likley an undersized BB on mbike .Seen a few bikes like that from all makers .

chippie_chappie

First aspect it isn’t me, 13.9 mph average for a 3.10 w/kg ftp really? I’m riding this thing on routes I ride week in week out. This bike is requiring up to 20 watts more to achieve the same speed on routes of the same distance and elevation that my Giant did, no this thing is bloody hard work and horrible to ride. I wish I’d kept my Giant and Felt now.

First.Aspect

Well unless you have a power meter I'm not sure what a fairly inaccurate guesstimate of a number you think you can generate actually tells you, other than that 20w isn't going to unleash the extra 4 mph you need to achieve moderately slow.

Mines 3.7 by the way and I'm slow as fuck, but faster than you.

Anyhow, have a read.

https://road.cc/content/feature/is-your-ftp-lying-you-lactate-profiling-test-301735

If you scroll down about half way it talks about bottom bracket bearings (it doesn't).

joeyhalloran

The bike is a catagorically fast bike, it won't be slower than a Giant Defy.

The only two options are:

1) Its you (maybe including the position, how aero, how much power you can produce etc.. and bear in mind different PMs can read differently.)
2) Its a mechanical issue with the bike. Fix the bottom bracket, make sure the wheels spin. Any bearing should run smooth. Once you've got everything running smoothly then the only option is 1).

chippie_chappie

First contact so you think 18 mph average is moderately slow ? Really ? That’s racing speed it’s the low end of racing speed but it’s still racing speed. I’m saying on my Giant and Felt I was getting at least 15.2 mph average for the same power it’s taking to get 14 mph average in this BMC donkey. The fact your ftp is only half a watt higher than mine says it all.

chippie_chappie

Hi Joey, I plan on getting a bike fit next but they’re bloody expensive. I spent out on the bike so I will have to save the 200 quid for a bike fit. I’m thinking of getting a Kogel bearings bottom bracket and maybe some ceramic pulley wheels next year. I had a Kona mountain bike some years back that was exactly the same as this road bike. My mate who I used to ride with at the time said to me it’s you until I let him have a go on it for about 3 or 4 bikes on our local trails and he said to me god your right, that’s horrible so it isn’t me. I’m riding this bike in my own county in the surrounding counties of Warwickshire, Shropshire, Derbyshire and Leicestershire on climbs I’m well used to and I know how hard or not they should be compared to my last bikes the Giant Defy advanced pro 0 was my summer bike and the Felt VR3 was my Winter bike and the amount of force you have to put behind the pedals on this BMC to get even a moderate speed is insane add a 4@ to 50 kph+ wind to the equation and it’s a absolute nightmare.

First.Aspect

Oh god this is like two mice having a willy waving contest. I'm out.

pblakeney

Sell the BMC and buy a Giant. Sorted.

joeyhalloran

Well, it's your money but I can tell you ceramic bearings won't fix the issue. Take it to a mechanic, if they say the bike is fine then it's you.

pangolin

chippie_chappie said:

Hi Joey, I plan on getting a bike fit next but they’re bloody expensive. I spent out on the bike so I will have to save the 200 quid for a bike fit. I’m thinking of getting a Kogel bearings bottom bracket and maybe some ceramic pulley wheels next year. I had a Kona mountain bike some years back that was exactly the same as this road bike. My mate who I used to ride with at the time said to me it’s you until I let him have a go on it for about 3 or 4 bikes on our local trails and he said to me god your right, that’s horrible so it isn’t me. I’m riding this bike in my own county in the surrounding counties of Warwickshire, Shropshire, Derbyshire and Leicestershire on climbs I’m well used to and I know how hard or not they should be compared to my last bikes the Giant Defy advanced pro 0 was my summer bike and the Felt VR3 was my Winter bike and the amount of force you have to put behind the pedals on this BMC to get even a moderate speed is insane add a 4@ to 50 kph+ wind to the equation and it’s a absolute nightmare.

I'm guessing you let him have a go on it for 3 or 4 miles, not bike lengths?

Take the chain off the cranks, see if they are still hard to spin. Next take the cranks off, check they're clean and lubed etc. See if the bb feels noticeably hard to spin with your fingers. £0 and you could well have diagnosed the problem.

Why on earth you would leap to a bike fit and ceramic pullet wheels when you have said the cranks are hard to turn is beyond me.

pangolin

Looks like your crankset has some lockrings, worth checking they weren't just installed wrong. Watch last few minutes of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZO_EdWHaqw