Giro 2023 - Stage 17: Pergine Valsugana–Caorle, 195 km, The Coast to the Coast Stage.***Spoiler***

blazing_saddles
blazing_saddles Posts: 21,921
Stage 17: Pergine Valsugana – Caorle, 195 km

Start Time: 11-45amGMT.

What to say about this stage?
Well, it's the flattest of the entire Giro d’Italia. It starts in the Valsugana Valley and ends on the Venetian coast. The route decends gradually and the only hope of it not ending up in a bunch sprint is if there is a crosswind in the last 30kms, which runs along the coast.
At least, for me, it means less work.

Profile.



Effectually, the riders leave the Alps when they cross the River Brenta in Bassano del Grappa to continue on the plains north of Venice. Long and straight roads lead the pink caravan towards the Adriatic Coast.
The Giro reaches the sea in Lido di Jesolo.

Map.



Final Kms.





What to expect:

A bunch sprint with one of these characters taking the spoils: Pascal Ackermann, Jonathan Milan,
Fernando Gaviria, Mark Cavendish, Alberto Dainese, Michael Matthews, Simone Consonni....

Pergine Valsugana


12 km east of Trento, the municipality of Pergine Valsugana occupies the vast basin at the foot of the Tegazzo hill and the valley floor of the Fersina torrent. It bathes in the blue waters of Lake Caldonazzo and is surrounded by mountains and climbs now known from the Giro d’Italia such as the climb to Monte Panarotta covered by the Corsa Rosa in 2014 and 2021. With 21,485 inhabitants, Pergine Valsugana is the third largest city Trentino by population after Rovereto and Trento.
Stronghold of the Valsugana on the shores of Lake Caldonazzo and at the beginning of the Valle dei Mocheni, the town is dominated by the historic and mighty Castel Pergine which overlooks the valley.



Food

In Valsugana-Lagorai you can discover typical Trentino products and local dishes with a strong flavor of tradition, authenticity and quality.
From polenta with the famous Valsugana flour to the genuineness of the small fruits of Sant’Orsola; from the excellent sausages to the local dairy products, such as the typical alpine cheese from Malga Montagna Granda and “Lagorai”.




But also honey, the apples of Trentino, the radicchio of Bieno, the medicinal herbs of Valsugana, the chestnuts of Roncegno and the typical “Treccia Mochena” from Caneza are transformed into truly unique dishes thanks to the magic touch of the people who take part in their processing.



Caorle

Overlooking the Upper Adriatic, a stone’s throw from the city of Venice, Caorle is characterized by wide beaches with golden fine sand and surrounded by areas rich in history, culture and nature.
In addition to the beaches of Levante e Ponente, Porto S. Margherita, Lido Altanea e Duna Verde and the unspoilt natural environment of the lagoon of Caorle, this picturesque fishing village boasts a historical centre characterized by campi, calli, coloured houses and streets which once were crossed by canals, now filled in. This is why Caorle is known as “little Venice”.

Food

The historical seafaring village of Caorle boasts the title of Gourmet Destination of the Upper Adriatic, as its cuisine is its best calling card as well as an interesting travel motivation for foodies and beyond.
Although Caorle cuisine is characterized by a strong maritime identity, among the specialties it offers, there is no shortage of recipes from the land inspired by peasant tradition. Typical dishes and products become the protagonists of true sensory experiences and an excellent reason to organize a holiday or a trip out of town.
The very fresh catch is the flagship of the local cuisine which can count on three highly appreciated local fish products: the Moscardino, a small octopus that loves sandy seabeds, perfect as a low-calorie appetizer and excellent natural anti-wrinkle thanks to the high percentage of collagen which contains; the white Canestrello, a mollusc with a delicate flavour often prepared on the grill; the organic sea clams (the only ones to have this certification all over Italy) bred and collected in a farm opposite the Vallevecchia coastline, a protected naturalistic area and Site of Community Interest.




And if the sea is synonymous with history and quality, the hinterland also suggests flavours that deserve to be tasted, such as superfine Carnaroli rice, sandbank honey, Montasio DOP cheese, craft beer or local wines. Whoever comes to Caorle can find in the menu a rich basket of products to be tried in the characteristic restaurants of the village: not to be missed are the classic spaghetti with clams, baby octopus stewed with polenta, risotto with white canestrelli,



sardines in Saor, bigoli in sauce or grilled fish.







"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
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Comments

  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Italian fish cuisine is underrated
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • red.rider
    red.rider Posts: 1,102
    Looks like a hectic finish: A GC fight into left-hander at 4km to go, followed by a lead out drag race along the beach to secure primary position, then still scrappy 2km to go. Could be open to a late attack if the lead out trains are burned and sprinters start to hesitate.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Lot of riders splitting off the front fairly easy ..mov blocking
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    4 riders away
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • JimD666
    JimD666 Posts: 1,989
    edited May 2023
    This just looks like the perfect stage to ride for me. 120km downhill (more or less). Heavenly.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Attacks out the bunch while riders taken comfort breaks
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,794
    JimD666 said:

    This just looks like the perfect stage to ride for me. 120km downhill (more or less). Heavenly.

    I did the death road in Bolivia. 64km of downhill. Very much my style too.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,033
    Being kept on a very tight leash and into a headwind. Not a great day to be in the break. On most other days it has felt like there was a chance.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Is the scooter 🛵 still a prize thing ?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Frigo old skool roadside meet and greet
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • commuterlegs
    commuterlegs Posts: 271
    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    edited May 2023
    Leave it all to a mountain top time trial on the penultimate day of a grand tour. I am sure that was Jumbo's plan from day 1
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 238

    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?

    Saturday is a massive unknown. My feeling is that any of the three of them might win it on Saturday. Im not sure even a 2 minute lead is safe. Someone leading by 2 minutes could easily blow up.

    If there are no team cars, how will riders get info on the climb- if at all.

    BTW- I would want to be in the lead on Saturday. You go last AND importantly, something might happen which might wipe the stage out altogether. Weather, incident etc.
  • JimD666
    JimD666 Posts: 1,989
    There were a load of rumours about st20 getting scrapped (snow I think?) Has it all settled down again?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117
    edited May 2023

    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?

    Saturday is a massive unknown. My feeling is that any of the three of them might win it on Saturday. Im not sure even a 2 minute lead is safe. Someone leading by 2 minutes could easily blow up.

    If there are no team cars, how will riders get info on the climb- if at all.

    BTW- I would want to be in the lead on Saturday. You go last AND importantly, something might happen which might wipe the stage out altogether. Weather, incident etc.
    Does anyone else remember the 2008 Giro? Pretty sure Pellizotti won the MTF TT.

    They had mechanics on the back of motos with a bike over their shoulder
  • andytee87
    andytee87 Posts: 406
    All depends on how Almeida/Caruso view the gap between them. Caruso was 2nd in 2021 so I don't know how arsed he would be about 4-10th so he could try something tomorrow/friday and not worry if it goes tits up.

    Then do UAE defend the podium or leave it to Ineos because of the small time covering podium
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    edited May 2023
    Caruso will try and go long .. Hugh could be a partner in crime...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    UAE will drill it with vine again and attack ,.. that was truly violent
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,919
    edited May 2023

    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?

    Saturday is a massive unknown. My feeling is that any of the three of them might win it on Saturday. Im not sure even a 2 minute lead is safe. Someone leading by 2 minutes could easily blow up.

    If there are no team cars, how will riders get info on the climb- if at all.

    BTW- I would want to be in the lead on Saturday. You go last AND importantly, something might happen which might wipe the stage out altogether. Weather, incident etc.
    Does anyone else remember the 2008 Giro? Pretty sure Pellizotti won the MTF TT.

    They had mechanics on the back of motos with a bike over their shoulder
    Plan de Corones is essentially a bloody steep gravel climb as well. Re Roglic et al, it's noticeable that the Jumbo team didn't look that strong, and Ineos are obviously short of numbers. If a team was able to go at it on the Giau then they could do some serious damage as it's a brute of a climb even before they do the Tre Croci/Tre Cime. Of course, they could all wait for the final 4km of Tre Cime, which averages >11% and go mano o mano.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346

    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?

    Saturday is a massive unknown. My feeling is that any of the three of them might win it on Saturday. Im not sure even a 2 minute lead is safe. Someone leading by 2 minutes could easily blow up.

    If there are no team cars, how will riders get info on the climb- if at all.

    BTW- I would want to be in the lead on Saturday. You go last AND importantly, something might happen which might wipe the stage out altogether. Weather, incident etc.
    Does anyone else remember the 2008 Giro? Pretty sure Pellizotti won the MTF TT.

    They had mechanics on the back of motos with a bike over their shoulder
    That the Strada Bianci one with unmade section?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,117

    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?

    Saturday is a massive unknown. My feeling is that any of the three of them might win it on Saturday. Im not sure even a 2 minute lead is safe. Someone leading by 2 minutes could easily blow up.

    If there are no team cars, how will riders get info on the climb- if at all.

    BTW- I would want to be in the lead on Saturday. You go last AND importantly, something might happen which might wipe the stage out altogether. Weather, incident etc.
    Does anyone else remember the 2008 Giro? Pretty sure Pellizotti won the MTF TT.

    They had mechanics on the back of motos with a bike over their shoulder
    That the Strada Bianci one with unmade section?
    Yeah think so. Quite a grubby lot of riders if you look at that giro.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346

    Looking ahead, are we thinking Rog will need to attack tomorrow or Friday, or will he let it play out in the hope that his legs return for the ITT on Saturday? Assume G will keep his powder dry unless he feels really good.

    Almeida I've no idea about, normally follows and could be good in the uphill ITT, but if he's feeling good he might rip it up for fun!?

    Saturday is a massive unknown. My feeling is that any of the three of them might win it on Saturday. Im not sure even a 2 minute lead is safe. Someone leading by 2 minutes could easily blow up.

    If there are no team cars, how will riders get info on the climb- if at all.

    BTW- I would want to be in the lead on Saturday. You go last AND importantly, something might happen which might wipe the stage out altogether. Weather, incident etc.
    Does anyone else remember the 2008 Giro? Pretty sure Pellizotti won the MTF TT.

    They had mechanics on the back of motos with a bike over their shoulder
    That the Strada Bianci one with unmade section?
    Yeah think so. Quite a grubby lot of riders if you look at that giro.
    The process of removal was still infull swing
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Crosswind talk
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Crosswind talk

    how far to go?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    46 k
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    But I reckon it's a nothing burger
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,033

    Crosswind talk

    Too light I suspect.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    Blythe's finger said 9kmh - no chance
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,346
    Better not be some dumb race altering crash outside the 3 k rule
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm