Bought a Propel and nfeel a bit "meh"
lookatme
Posts: 11
in Road general
Can't decide if I like my new bike or not. Its ok but it doesn't excite me nor does it feel like it is anything particularly special. 10 years ago I spent roughkly the same amount as I did on the Propel and bought an Italian artisan bike, which I still have, and which feels superior to the Propel.
I quite like the Aero of the bike but it seems to come at a weight cost unless I am imagining it. Picking up both my bikes, feels like night and day between them, Propel feels like a hybrid to carry. I have changed the Gavia tyres to Goodyear F1s which have made a positive difference, however I could not get the Gavia tyres off at all so now doubt my ability to live with tubeless. I was thinking of dropping 1k on a set of Aero wheels however I am unsure if the bike is worth it ultimatley.
Figures wise on a ride it is good, but can't quite match the speed of my 10 year old bike which is less Aero. I have the Advanced 2, so 105 gears as this was going to be a daily but then changed my mind as no good for lights and mudguard. As far as I know there us very little difference to the Frames across the Propel range so if this weight and is all down to the awful PA2 wheel alone I am prepared to swap them, my worry is that changing the wheels isn't going to make a vast difference.
It rolls quite nicely on the flat, but just doesn't seem to like anything with a gradient.
I quite like the Aero of the bike but it seems to come at a weight cost unless I am imagining it. Picking up both my bikes, feels like night and day between them, Propel feels like a hybrid to carry. I have changed the Gavia tyres to Goodyear F1s which have made a positive difference, however I could not get the Gavia tyres off at all so now doubt my ability to live with tubeless. I was thinking of dropping 1k on a set of Aero wheels however I am unsure if the bike is worth it ultimatley.
Figures wise on a ride it is good, but can't quite match the speed of my 10 year old bike which is less Aero. I have the Advanced 2, so 105 gears as this was going to be a daily but then changed my mind as no good for lights and mudguard. As far as I know there us very little difference to the Frames across the Propel range so if this weight and is all down to the awful PA2 wheel alone I am prepared to swap them, my worry is that changing the wheels isn't going to make a vast difference.
It rolls quite nicely on the flat, but just doesn't seem to like anything with a gradient.
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Looking at the geo at https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/propel-advanced-2-2023 , compared to my 58cm Cube Attain GTC Disc 2016's 388mm reach and 610mm stack, the Propel M or ML looks much more racey with 545mm and 562 stack respectively...
How does the geo of your Propel compare to the bike it replaced?
Aero trumps weight unless you cannot sustain approx 12mph+, the faster above that speed you can maintain, the more aero is king.
There's been some decent deals on ~40mm+ rim disc wheels recently at Sigma, Merlin and ChainReaction.================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
Your Italian bike will now cost at least double what you spent on the Propel.
The Propel may not be living up to expectations but that is an unfair comparison.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Giants are overrated imo .See alot of things off with the ,particularly BBs .People want them for reasons I can't fathom .
There are plenty of better looking /riding bikes for the same money .0 -
The bike market at the moment is not consumer driven, it is driven by the industry. They say consumers want aero and disc, but that is because it is now damn hard to get anything else. So of course that's what people are buying.
Consumers then tell themselves absurd things like "my aero bike is 3kph faster". Because it has to be, right, or why would you be charged twice as much for a heavier, uncomfortable, more complex bicycle?
Imo peak bike, in terms of weight, ride quality, simplicity and accessibility was at least 10, probably 15 years ago. Since then its been about margins.1 -
Ha! My two bikes are both 10 and 15 years old.First.Aspect said:The bike market at the moment is not consumer driven, it is driven by the industry. They say consumers want aero and disc, but that is because it is now damn hard to get anything else. So of course that's what people are buying.
Consumers then tell themselves absurd things like "my aero bike is 3kph faster". Because it has to be, right, or why would you be charged twice as much for a heavier, uncomfortable, more complex bicycle?
Imo peak bike, in terms of weight, ride quality, simplicity and accessibility was at least 10, probably 15 years ago. Since then its been about margins.1 -
How long have you had the Propel and how much have you ridden it. I've had some bikes where it's taken a little while to "bond" so to speak. My Ti Dolan ADX is a good example, felt very heavy, slow and upright compared to my other bikes when I first started riding it but the longer I've had it and used it, I've learned what it's good at and I now love it. I must admit though, swapping the standard aksiums for some deep carbon Reynolds wheels made a big difference!
I still prefer my Colnago C50 but have realised there are situations where the ADX is the better bike for a particular type of ride...0 -
Nothing useful to add, but I often wonder why I see so many Propels for sale in the FB bike selling groups...0
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^^ This. It's same here, loads for sale.
Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
I have had it since Feb, ridden around 200 miles on it I guess. I ride around 450 a month across all bikes.
I can't put my finger on it. When its good, its really good. And it's never bad either. But it just doesn't feel... I don't know... special? I am going to ride both it and my Merak to a LBS that has a set of scales and weight them both. The propel feels a porker to lift but the numbers don't suggest it is. The Merak feels like a feather however I am not hugely quicker on it either.
I suspect the wheels may be a good option to change, the tyre change has certainly made a difference and that is on the already known to be awful PA2 Giant wheels which are 2.3kg apparently.0 -
Not feeling as meh as I was.
Took it out today and managed 22 miles at an average of 20.5mph with traffic - so its ok. Tyre change has def helped. I reckon a wheel set may see more improvement.
Its a very reach over and duck down bike but I think that is working for me. I have probably been too upright for too long.3 -
When I bought my TCR 3 years ago I thought it was a bit sluggish at first as well. Changed the tyres to GP5000's & that made a world of difference.
The stock Giant tyres are heavy & not the best IMO.1 -
Unless you can point to a cartel nature of the bike industry, this is not the case.First.Aspect said:The bike market at the moment is not consumer driven, it is driven by the industry. They say consumers want aero and disc, but that is because it is now damn hard to get anything else. So of course that's what people are buying.
Consumers then tell themselves absurd things like "my aero bike is 3kph faster". Because it has to be, right, or why would you be charged twice as much for a heavier, uncomfortable, more complex bicycle?
Imo peak bike, in terms of weight, ride quality, simplicity and accessibility was at least 10, probably 15 years ago. Since then its been about margins.
The bike industry is like any other market in that it is driven by both its own desire to get consumers to spend more, and by consumers' ability/willingness to spend on products.
Yes, the big brands want to push disc brake bikes because it can be used to encourage new bike/component purchases: but only if the consumers are willing to play ball. Which they very obviously are, otherwise brands would continue to push rim brake components and bikes.
We should also note that rim brake bikes are still available...0 -
Look into my eyes. Not around my eyes into my eyes. You are feeling sleepy. One. Two. Three.bjmastonrPt9OKPj said:
Unless you can point to a cartel nature of the bike industry, this is not the case.First.Aspect said:The bike market at the moment is not consumer driven, it is driven by the industry. They say consumers want aero and disc, but that is because it is now damn hard to get anything else. So of course that's what people are buying.
Consumers then tell themselves absurd things like "my aero bike is 3kph faster". Because it has to be, right, or why would you be charged twice as much for a heavier, uncomfortable, more complex bicycle?
Imo peak bike, in terms of weight, ride quality, simplicity and accessibility was at least 10, probably 15 years ago. Since then its been about margins.
The bike industry is like any other market in that it is driven by both its own desire to get consumers to spend more, and by consumers' ability/willingness to spend on products.
Yes, the big brands want to push disc brake bikes because it can be used to encourage new bike/component purchases: but only if the consumers are willing to play ball. Which they very obviously are, otherwise brands would continue to push rim brake components and bikes.
We should also note that rim brake bikes are still available...
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Ypu are an experienced cyclist and though it will render your much loved bikes redundant and not cross conpatible, you want disc brakes. You don't mind the cost. You don't mind that it takes a day to bleed them. You don't mind they are heavy. Although you initially thought they look gopping, you now like them and a bike would look wrong without them. You will go faster on them. You can get thicker bar tape to compensate for the horribly stiff front fork you now need. Wheel changes will be just as quick.
One. Two. Three.
You are back in the room.
Yeah maybe mate. But there are new people coming into cycling all the time who don't know any different.2 -
but only if the consumers are willing to play ball. Which they very obviously are, otherwise brands would continue to push rim brake components and bikes.
We should also note that rim brake bikes are still available
They have no choice other than to play ball as barely any of the big bike manufacturers offer rim brake road bikes anymore as is obvious to any cyclist. If you want a cheap entry level bike like a CAAD Optimo or Specialized Allez there are a few options but essentially new rim brake frames/bikes are very scarce.
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My bikes are 10 and 15 years old with rim brakes and external cables. I might be hankering after the extra stopping power of discs if I was commuting in all weathers or heavily loaded touring, but I'm neither. If my bikes got trashed or nicked tomorrow I'd be in a dilemma buying a new one. For me the only upside to discs is they allow much fatter tyres, but that alone might be enough to tempt me to make the switch....0
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Looking at the new model Propels being ridden in the Giro it strikes me how un-aero they look. There's only really the headtube that seems to have any aero shaping. The rest of the tube shapes just look pretty standard.
Not a criticism, just an observation.0 -
You only need fatter tyres if you frame has been made stiffer than any normal human needs it to be and your front fork makes the ride unbearably chattery, so that it can safely transmit the braking forces along its whole length. Otherwise, 25s or 28s are fine and the frame and fork can do the rest.Munsford0 said:My bikes are 10 and 15 years old with rim brakes and external cables. I might be hankering after the extra stopping power of discs if I was commuting in all weathers or heavily loaded touring, but I'm neither. If my bikes got trashed or nicked tomorrow I'd be in a dilemma buying a new one. For me the only upside to discs is they allow much fatter tyres, but that alone might be enough to tempt me to make the switch....
Unless you are talking about aerodynamics, because fatter tyres match fatter rims better?
One solution is narrower rims to match those narrower tyres, which saves weight as well.
There's a solution to every problem that's been created by solving a problem that didn't exist, you know.0 -
Definitely not talking aero at the speeds I manage
Fatter tyres / lower pressures appeal more with each passing year as my body and the roads continue to deteriorate... 0 -
I should start charging for fettling other people's disc brakes. Don't have the problems mentioned, bleeding is really not difficult. Keep pedalling the myths and I'll be able to charge more 😁2
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Yep, bought a kit from Amazon for about a tenner, plus a litre of LHM mineral oil for a similar amount, and I reckon it's about a ten minute job now. But schooshveronese68 said:I should start charging for fettling other people's disc brakes. Don't have the problems mentioned, bleeding is really not difficult. Keep pedalling the myths and I'll be able to charge more 😁
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I'm getting my 2017 giant propel replaced under warranty. I hope its a rim brake.
Not keen on the look or the weight of the disc brakes. Plus I also bought a new set of Zed rim brake wheels end of last year.
Honestly don't know much about disc and have no real interest in learning. I know enough to get by on my rim bikes.0 -
It still takes infinitely longer than bleeding rim brakes.super_davo said:
Yep, bought a kit from Amazon for about a tenner, plus a litre of LHM mineral oil for a similar amount, and I reckon it's about a ten minute job now. But schooshveronese68 said:I should start charging for fettling other people's disc brakes. Don't have the problems mentioned, bleeding is really not difficult. Keep pedalling the myths and I'll be able to charge more 😁
Fwiw I guarantee I was an earlier adopter than anyone on this forum. I have had disc brakes on a commuting road (okay, cross) bike since 2008. I've had mechanical, semi mechanical and hydraulic. When they are good, you don't notice them, just like rim brakes. When they are bad, they barely work at all and they are very fickle in that respect. Whereas I know exactly when and where my rim brakes will be hopeless - and that's when it's wet.
I have multiple bikes. Including a rim brake one I keep in Devon and ride 2 weeks a year. I get it out, it performs like it did the last time. I do that with a hydraulic disc brake bike I've not used in a few months, it'll be lethal for a week, and then totally awesome again.
For the weight, complexity and wrecking the ride quality, in my experience its just not worth it.0 -
"Bleeding takes a day " 🤣🤣🤣
The only time you need to fully bleed brakes is after repair or if the bike hasn't moved in years . .You can bleed a soft lever in a couple of mins .
If you don't like hydro disc brakes stick with rims .
My only suggestion is you buy a few sets of wheres now because you won't get them soon enough or it will be more difficult than a brake bleed to get them .
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If you look up, you'll see the humour passing overhead.trevor.hall12 said:"Bleeding takes a day " 🤣🤣🤣
The only time you need to fully bleed brakes is after repair or if the bike hasn't moved in years . .You can bleed a soft lever in a couple of mins .
If you don't like hydro disc brakes stick with rims .
My only suggestion is you buy a few sets of wheres now because you won't get them soon enough or it will be more difficult than a brake bleed to get them .
There is a large world of cycling outside of the major brands and western markets, and a plethora of very good options for rim braked bikes that would be considered high end if someone whacked a Zipp sticker on there.
Anyhow, I'm already 50 so I don't need stuff to be available forever.
And as I say, I have a couple of disc bikes right now, and they are probably used more than my others, but I have the same level of "meh" when riding them as the OP.
At the point I rent something on holiday with discs that rides like either of my "best" rim brake bikes, I'll be a convert. Seeing as my Cervelo isn't anywhere close, I'm not all that optimistic.
Perhaps if I'd bought it new and blown a huge amount of money on it, I'd feel differently.
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You ask to understand the humour ,which I do ,then go off on the same tangent without the humour
Everyone is allowed to have preferences ,if you prefer less efficient braking that's absolutely fine and your perogative . .I'll say again it takes no longer to bleed a soft lever than it does to replace or adjust pads on rims .
The negative I would put forward is the £16 extra for an Epic bleed kit for whichever brakes you run .
I'm also 50 and never feel comfortable on any rentals while away ,probably/possibly because its not fitted to me like all my other bikes Rim or Disc .0 -
Never had problems with rentals personally. Take a tape measure, that really helps. And your own saddle. It's my own bikes I'm meh about.
Did you have problems stopping before? I can't say I ever noticed.0 -
Pretty typical reply from you .
You're making up what I said now so I'll leave it at that .0 -
Oh be like that then.
I washed my Cervelo today. I really hope the brakes work next time I use it, because an aerosol droplet of wd40 landed on one of the discs. I knew I should have taken them and the pads off and put them in a positive pressure tent first, but I forgot.0 -
Your either making this up or unbelievably kack-handed at looking after disc brake bikes. I have access to some 2008 MTBs with Shimano hydraulic disc brakes at a relatives house in Yorkshire. The brakes have never been bled despite many bog trips and wet rides, they work perfectly every time I've ever ridden them.
My disc brake bikes at home work, even in the wet, with zero maintenance.
At this point your either a troll, don't understand how to look after a bike or getting paid by the rim brake industry.0 -
Feelings run high on this topic.
Can you pop over to the other thread and help out the chap with crap disc brakes Joey? So far he's been advised to quickly set them up from scratch.0
