tracking location of fam. members via smartphone

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I'll admit I'm probably a bit weird in that I don't want Google knowing where I am all the time, so location is turned off unless I'm using Google Maps.

What do you perceive to be the downside of Google knowing where you are?

Paranoia.

Seriously - not giving them even more detailed data about my every move all the time. I realise that they've already got a lot of data about me, and that they make all their stuff 'free' by monetising that data, but there's virtually no upside for me of them knowing where I am at all times. If I need the functionality, it's easy enough to turn on.

So, what are the upsides of having it permanently switched on?

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

orraloon

I started school when I was 4 and a half-ish, different times, different world. Guess a parent took me there day 1 but after that I walked to and from, a good 1/2 mile, on my own. Moved to a whisky town at age 5, dad was a polis sergeant, problematic? No. Always walked to school on my own or with whichever classmate met on the way.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

TheBigBean

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

I don't think this is true. I would limit realistic home dangers to attempting to cook and playing with electricity. The former is most likely to result in a minor burn whilst the latter is most likely to result in no electricity. Maybe my imagination is not so good - my nieces can drive cars at that age. In contrast the dangers outside seem to be more serious - what if they were rude to the neighbours?

briantrumpet

I guess now that plugs have insulated pins, children can't do what I did and try out my dad's screwdriver across the live & neutral pins.

Mind you, my parents were in the room at the time to witness the bang... maybe they didn't like me as much as I thought...

briantrumpet

Venetian blinds used to be a not-uncommon cause of asphyxiation...

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

In contrast the dangers outside seem to be more serious - what if they were rude to the neighbours?

Some in our village are rude, and more.
Little feckers know their rights too. Seems too one sided.

briantrumpet

orraloon said:

I started school when I was 4 and a half-ish, different times, different world. Guess a parent took me there day 1 but after that I walked to and from, a good 1/2 mile, on my own. Moved to a whisky town at age 5, dad was a polis sergeant, problematic? No. Always walked to school on my own or with whichever classmate met on the way.

Yeah, but you wuz over 6ft by the time you wuz five, wuzn't you?

I think my mum walked me to school for the first term when I was five, then that was it. I didn't even have gloves tied together through my coat, and wore shorts all through the winter. We wuz proper 'ard, man. Even used clackers without goggles...

pblakeney

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

The road safety bit is solvable. The weirdo bit less so. Thankfully it is more widely reported and discussed (I doubt there's any real change in guys hanging around outside schools).

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

The road safety bit is solvable. The weirdo bit less so. Thankfully it is more widely reported and discussed (I doubt there's any real change in guys hanging around outside schools).

Is it solvable on the basis that everyone else follows the road rules?

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

The road safety bit is solvable. The weirdo bit less so. Thankfully it is more widely reported and discussed (I doubt there's any real change in guys hanging around outside schools).

But Charlie told us not to talk to strangers! (Though he ignored the aunts, uncles, parents, cousins and godparents who were equally likely to abuse children).

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

Yes, not my favourite activity at Scouts, being a 5-stone weakling and a wimp.

morstar

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I'll admit I'm probably a bit weird in that I don't want Google knowing where I am all the time, so location is turned off unless I'm using Google Maps.

What do you perceive to be the downside of Google knowing where you are?

Paranoia.

Seriously - not giving them even more detailed data about my every move all the time. I realise that they've already got a lot of data about me, and that they make all their stuff 'free' by monetising that data, but there's virtually no upside for me of them knowing where I am at all times. If I need the functionality, it's easy enough to turn on.

So, what are the upsides of having it permanently switched on?

When I used to travel a bit for work, I had quite open location access on my mobile.

I found some of the notifications quite useful with recommendations for places to go and things to do. Conversely, I did start to find it really quite intrusive and limiting.

The whole reinforcement of patterns of behaviour by algorithms is frustrating. Everybody gets pointed to the same places, everybody gets fed the same tunes on music apps etc. etc.

I’ve been using duck duck go browser for a few months now and the internet is a very different place without as much tracking feeding an ever decreasing feedback loop.

webboo

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

Yes, not my favourite activity at Scouts, being a 5-stone weakling and a wimp.

Scouts another group that wasn’t always safe for children.

morstar

webboo said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

Yes, not my favourite activity at Scouts, being a 5-stone weakling and a wimp.

Scouts another group that wasn’t always safe for children.

Too true. I got clotheslined in bulldogs once.
Rough house was an unusual one too.

briantrumpet

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I'll admit I'm probably a bit weird in that I don't want Google knowing where I am all the time, so location is turned off unless I'm using Google Maps.

What do you perceive to be the downside of Google knowing where you are?

Paranoia.

Seriously - not giving them even more detailed data about my every move all the time. I realise that they've already got a lot of data about me, and that they make all their stuff 'free' by monetising that data, but there's virtually no upside for me of them knowing where I am at all times. If I need the functionality, it's easy enough to turn on.

So, what are the upsides of having it permanently switched on?

When I used to travel a bit for work, I had quite open location access on my mobile.

I found some of the notifications quite useful with recommendations for places to go and things to do. Conversely, I did start to find it really quite intrusive and limiting.

The whole reinforcement of patterns of behaviour by algorithms is frustrating. Everybody gets pointed to the same places, everybody gets fed the same tunes on music apps etc. etc.

I’ve been using duck duck go browser for a few months now and the internet is a very different place without as much tracking feeding an ever decreasing feedback loop.

Yeah, I'm on that one too on the phone. Also useful as in desktop mode you can still access FB messages without using the Messenger app, which is another one that sucks up personal data, I think.

morstar

briantrumpet said:

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I'll admit I'm probably a bit weird in that I don't want Google knowing where I am all the time, so location is turned off unless I'm using Google Maps.

What do you perceive to be the downside of Google knowing where you are?

Paranoia.

Seriously - not giving them even more detailed data about my every move all the time. I realise that they've already got a lot of data about me, and that they make all their stuff 'free' by monetising that data, but there's virtually no upside for me of them knowing where I am at all times. If I need the functionality, it's easy enough to turn on.

So, what are the upsides of having it permanently switched on?

When I used to travel a bit for work, I had quite open location access on my mobile.

I found some of the notifications quite useful with recommendations for places to go and things to do. Conversely, I did start to find it really quite intrusive and limiting.

The whole reinforcement of patterns of behaviour by algorithms is frustrating. Everybody gets pointed to the same places, everybody gets fed the same tunes on music apps etc. etc.

I’ve been using duck duck go browser for a few months now and the internet is a very different place without as much tracking feeding an ever decreasing feedback loop.

Yeah, I'm on that one too on the phone. Also useful as in desktop mode you can still access FB messages without using the Messenger app, which is another one that sucks up personal data, I think.

Yes, the messenger thing was a bit annoying and good to resolve. You have messages but we won’t let you see them without downloading an intrusive app.

briantrumpet

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I'll admit I'm probably a bit weird in that I don't want Google knowing where I am all the time, so location is turned off unless I'm using Google Maps.

What do you perceive to be the downside of Google knowing where you are?

Paranoia.

Seriously - not giving them even more detailed data about my every move all the time. I realise that they've already got a lot of data about me, and that they make all their stuff 'free' by monetising that data, but there's virtually no upside for me of them knowing where I am at all times. If I need the functionality, it's easy enough to turn on.

So, what are the upsides of having it permanently switched on?

When I used to travel a bit for work, I had quite open location access on my mobile.

I found some of the notifications quite useful with recommendations for places to go and things to do. Conversely, I did start to find it really quite intrusive and limiting.

The whole reinforcement of patterns of behaviour by algorithms is frustrating. Everybody gets pointed to the same places, everybody gets fed the same tunes on music apps etc. etc.

I’ve been using duck duck go browser for a few months now and the internet is a very different place without as much tracking feeding an ever decreasing feedback loop.

Yeah, I'm on that one too on the phone. Also useful as in desktop mode you can still access FB messages without using the Messenger app, which is another one that sucks up personal data, I think.

Yes, the messenger thing was a bit annoying and good to resolve. You have messages but we won’t let you see them without downloading an intrusive app.

On a related note, I'm baffled by how anyone can use FB on PC without decent ad-blocking. I use AdGuard on Chrome, and with the homepage being set to https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr you get posts in time order, not according to FB's grab-you-attention algorithm order, no adverts/sponsored content. Then I see it on someone else's device, and I've no idea where anything is and how messy it all is.

It' a pity that Android Chrome is so inferior to the PC version, so I'm grateful for 🦆🦆Go.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

The road safety bit is solvable. The weirdo bit less so. Thankfully it is more widely reported and discussed (I doubt there's any real change in guys hanging around outside schools).

Is it solvable on the basis that everyone else follows the road rules?

No, but closing roads outside schools from 8-9 and 3-4 helps a lot. Couple that with the kind of thing Brian described and that will get you most of the way there.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

The road safety bit is solvable. The weirdo bit less so. Thankfully it is more widely reported and discussed (I doubt there's any real change in guys hanging around outside schools).

Is it solvable on the basis that everyone else follows the road rules?

No, but closing roads outside schools from 8-9 and 3-4 helps a lot. Couple that with the kind of thing Brian described and that will get you most of the way there.

Closing close-to-school roads at opening/closing is a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. It's the sort of nudge which is 100% justifiable on road-safety and air quality issues alone.

rjsterry

webboo said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

Yes, not my favourite activity at Scouts, being a 5-stone weakling and a wimp.

Scouts another group that wasn’t always safe for children.

I think passive smoking was the biggest risk in my troop. I do remember bulldogs and quite enjoyed it despite being scrawny.

I don't think Scouts was any more of a risk to than any other group or institution with children. The risk was from everyone thinking they didn't need to worry about it happening at their school/scout troop/football club/whatever.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Would have thought looking at the particular circumstances and maturity of the child in question is more sensible than some pretty arbitrary age. Given that it's all middle aged blokes here, our memories of school in the 70s and 80s might not be wholly relevant to 10 and 11 year old girls in 2023.

The interesting thing about the NSPCC advice is that children under 12 can seem perfectly mature and able to look after themselves until something bad happens when the decision making falls apart.

Indeed. Is it a case of familiarity breeds contempt, and it being easy to forget how many serious dangers lurk in every home - electricity, hot water, stairs, things toppling, etc - whereas outside in public areas the dangers, whilst significant, are less varied (cars, trips, weirdos) and therefore more easily advised about/mitigated?

I have to say that DCC in Exeter have done some really good work in many places about making 'safe' cycle routes to various schools, so that pupils can cycle safely, using SUP's, controlled crossings and quiet side streets: follow the simple rules, and they are as safe as any other way of getting to school.

The road safety bit is solvable. The weirdo bit less so. Thankfully it is more widely reported and discussed (I doubt there's any real change in guys hanging around outside schools).

But Charlie told us not to talk to strangers! (Though he ignored the aunts, uncles, parents, cousins and godparents who were equally likely to abuse children).

Well quite.

briantrumpet

.

rjsterry said:

webboo said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

Yes, not my favourite activity at Scouts, being a 5-stone weakling and a wimp.

Scouts another group that wasn’t always safe for children.

I think passive smoking was the biggest risk in my troop. I do remember bulldogs and quite enjoyed it despite being scrawny.

I don't think Scouts was any more of a risk to than any other group or institution with children. The risk was from everyone thinking they didn't need to worry about it happening at their school/scout troop/football club/whatever.

One of the most important parts of Safeguarding training is the bit where the Safeguarding Lead looks us in the eye and tells us that "It happens here. That's not just me saying it for effect, it really happens here." Emotional, physical, sexual, neglect; peer-on-peer, adult-on-child, the full range of potential harm is rightly drummed into us every year, and the duty to record and report. Sadly, it doesn't stop it happening, but I hope the likelihood of it being dealt with is much much higher than it was when we were children. It must be truly harrowing to have to deal with it.

rjsterry

Well aware unfortunately.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.

Yes, not my favourite activity at Scouts, being a 5-stone weakling and a wimp.

Something tells me that the Scouts may have been more structured than my school breaks. 😉. Just maybe though.

surrey_commuter

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I'll admit I'm probably a bit weird in that I don't want Google knowing where I am all the time, so location is turned off unless I'm using Google Maps.

What do you perceive to be the downside of Google knowing where you are?

Paranoia.

Seriously - not giving them even more detailed data about my every move all the time. I realise that they've already got a lot of data about me, and that they make all their stuff 'free' by monetising that data, but there's virtually no upside for me of them knowing where I am at all times. If I need the functionality, it's easy enough to turn on.

So, what are the upsides of having it permanently switched on?

I take the attitude that the data is aggregated so I don’t care what Google knows about me. I take the same attitude with Amex and Tesco Clubcard.

I volunteered to beta test Google Now. It was brilliant after a few days it knew where I lived and where I worked and proffer up travel tips. As it read your emails/calendar it could give travel advise. To me it was like having a personal assistant.

For virtually any car journey I run Go as I love the real time info.

carbonclem

My wife and I have access to 'find my iphone' if we really need to see where we are. She worries a bit about me on long solo rides so if she wants to check I'm moving, then that's fine by me. I think she can also track me on a ride by a Wahoo link.
My daughter, at Uni, is part of our iCloud 'family' and has it turned off on principal Her decision. Hope she never loses her phone!

monkimark

It got banned at my primary school after the school secretary got caught in the crossfire and broke her arm....twice.

pblakeney said:

Since we are going down the when I were a lad road....
Who remembers playing British bulldog? Kind of tag/rugby without the rules.